The Balance Between Solo And Co-Op Difficulty

[Plorf]

I've been playing Warframe for several months now and the very first problem I noticed with the game was how utterly trivial and non-challenging the game is playing co-op, and how insanely unforgiving and difficult the game is playing solo. This is the game's biggest fault IMO.

 

Just today I've been playing various invasion and alert missions, and every time I join a random public game, it's filled with people rushing through and cheesing everything, probably because they don't want people to rush past them instead. It's a vicious cycle essentially. Of course, when I've had enough and switch to solo mode, the game can get so frustrating I often just quit entirely and play again much later. The recent accuracy buff to all enemies doesn't really help the game, if anything it just makes solo play even harder. It used to be that if you stand still you'd die pretty damn fast, and now it seems almost instant, even vs. a single moderately leveled enemy.

 

Now I guess to keep the thread constructive, what are your guys' thoughts on this? Is this a problem to you? What are some potential solutions to make co-op play more challenging, while also making solo play scale down better? (And yes, I know some of you are going to say simply playing with a friend. We can't all do that every time...)

 

Cheers.

[TheErebus.]

Keep the Solo aspect as difficult as it is, but bring this into the co-op aspect as well. 
 

[TrinityPrime]

Dying in single player for standing around seems more of a problem of playstyle for when you aren't using a warframe/loadout that can facetank enemies.

 

But ya, everything is cool when you're part of a team.

 

Except in Archwing Interception where you get increased amount of enemies spawning and respawning as quickly as they die when running with a team.  Best to solo that. 

[(XBOX)doomdrinker1]

I think they both need to be tweaked, solo is to unforgiving and coop to trivial. Solo needs to be made somewhat easier and coop somewhat harder. 

[nickelshark]

I think the problem is not solo vs co-op but the type of difficulty itself. Right now the only difference between "easy" and "hard" missions is the lvl of the enemy which affects the amount of dmg they can eat and spit back at you. If the scale in difficulty was based on skill ie smarter enemies with a more varied arsenal of powers and abilities and used them in sync with each other then I believe this would help with this solo vs co-op problem a bit.

[GhostSwordsman]

I would suggest having co-op slightly scale to total team conclave rating, but we all know how that would turn out. *inserts rage on forums and in-game from post bosses scale to team conclave rating buff a few updates ago*

 

Though I'll admit, fighting Lephantis when he was level 70 was a ton of fun.

[gnat6]

As someone who has played most of the game solo I think that the main problem with solo play is the fact that unlike coop play where death is trivial thanks to infinite revives in solo you only get 4 deaths a day per frame before dieing is an instant mission fail which makes bleed procs and toxin damage much more dangerous other than that most of the game is so trivially easy that the extra difficulty that comes with playing solo is barely noticeable.

[Halisi]

 The accuracy buff applying to all enemies was unintentional and DE plans to fix it. Aside from that, solo can be unforgiving at times but you can build your Warframe for that specifically with survival mods for example; quick thinking, rage, flow, & equilibrium. There are also frame that do exceptionally well in solo play e.g.; Oberon, Trinity, Rhino, etc.

 

 But you also have companions. Sentinels are good support units with abilities like radial slow, cloaking, and shield regen. Kubrows when you put enough dedication into them are practically another squad member. And specters are cheap, disposable, powerful, & they also work with companions.

 

 Once they fix the accuracy issues you'll have quite a few options for making solo play more viable, basically get a good companion to soften the blow.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Keep the Solo aspect as difficult as it is, but bring this into the co-op aspect as well. 

 

 

The solo aspect's difficulty comes primarily from the fact that you're all alone and the only way to revive is spending a revive. Neither of these things would translate well to coop.

[Destroyalord7]

Perhaps a difficulty multiplier with the number of players there are in the team, like in the Diablo series, may solve a few difficulty problems.

 

Have a baseline level/difficulty for solo or single players and multiply difficulty with how many people there are.

 

1 Player: x1

2 Players: x1.4 - x1.8?

3 Players: x1.75 - 2.25?

4. Players: x2.5?

 

Just suggestions though.

[MrJxt]

Perhaps a difficulty multiplier with the number of players there are in the team, like in the Diablo series, may solve a few difficulty problems.

 

Have a baseline level/difficulty for solo or single players and multiply difficulty with how many people there are.

 

1 Player: x1

2 Players: x1.4 - x1.8?

3 Players: x1.75 - 2.25?

4. Players: x2.5?

 

Just suggestions though.

This, except it only applies to enemy hp.

 

Pluto/ceres with lvl 75+ enemies might be overkill x)

Edited November 4, 2014 by MrJxt

[holdenagincourt]

The solo aspect's difficulty comes primarily from the fact that you're all alone and the only way to revive is spending a revive. Neither of these things would translate well to coop.

 

Exactly this. I'm also wary of ratcheting up difficulty even more when a lot of people are complaining about the latest changes.

[gvidzix]

Well I liked how the difficulty was before accuracy buff, this accuracy buff has only doomed frames with no direct defensive skills like - nova for example (my favourite frame) - single play on Pluto or Ceres is too painful now, even for frame like Ash.

I know that before this buff - if you had fully modded loadout (max mods, potatoes skills) then it got hard to play after 40+ waves on defenses and 10+ on interceptions or T4s...

But now even 20-30 lvl range mobs are hella strong, solo play now - if you aren't using something like rhino or zephyr or someone with good cc - you are dead.

 

Cross all that, it has been either adjusted or I got used to it, it is very fun.

Edited November 30, 2014 by gvidzix

[HackShield]

I've been playing Warframe for several months now and the very first problem I noticed with the game was how utterly trivial and non-challenging the game is playing co-op, and how insanely unforgiving and difficult the game is playing solo. This is the game's biggest fault IMO.

 

Just today I've been playing various invasion and alert missions, and every time I join a random public game, it's filled with people rushing through and cheesing everything, probably because they don't want people to rush past them instead. It's a vicious cycle essentially. Of course, when I've had enough and switch to solo mode, the game can get so frustrating I often just quit entirely and play again much later. The recent accuracy buff to all enemies doesn't really help the game, if anything it just makes solo play even harder. It used to be that if you stand still you'd die pretty damn fast, and now it seems almost instant, even vs. a single moderately leveled enemy.

 

Now I guess to keep the thread constructive, what are your guys' thoughts on this? Is this a problem to you? What are some potential solutions to make co-op play more challenging, while also making solo play scale down better? (And yes, I know some of you are going to say simply playing with a friend. We can't all do that every time...)

 

Cheers.

so i cant speak for a new user experience or a mid content player.

 

cause its long agi i didnt hat a non max dmg weapon and frame in my hands.

 

BUT about the rush in invasion it isnt cause anyone could rush past em its because you need to do the mission 5 times and you dont get good exp nor is the loot worth it so get it done as fast as you can , and i personally must say starting to make it a personal contest if i get the most dmg most kills or the lesses dmg :p cause anythign else there dont is competetiv 

 

about solo depends ext sure for if solo or not enemy cluster stas the same cause you need to kill between xx and xxx number of enemies

 

Mob def lesser enemies but hardly for a mid content for solo , i think.

 

def öhm we dont need to talk about def and surv or interception do we?

 

and last spy and rescue works fine solo cause you can play more stealthier.

 

and dont forget in frame choice and build choice is a huge difference between being in co-op or solo ;)

 

and i cant confirm that you cant play other frames anymore but i noticed the acc buff hardly cause i mostly solo Alad V with my ash and was suprised how hard those corpus can hit :D had to do more smoke screen and life strike use then ever before but was still do able after i knew they dont shot anymore like storm trooper ._.

Edited November 4, 2014 by HackShield

[KingTaro]

Actually, solo mode scales very well in most occasions.

The problem here is you joined a run with guys too OP for that mission run.

Try finding people who are stuggling to run that mission solo as well and do a run with them. It won't be that easy to complete the mission.

 

However, solo mission doesn't scale well for the Survival. This mission type depends on the ammount of enemy spawns. And since there are less enemies in solo mode, it is also more difficult to keep the Oxygen up.

 

 

 

But ya, everything is cool when you're part of a team.

 

Everything is awesooooooome!

[MechaTails]

I find the game is a lot more fun playing with low level players, simply because they arent rushing and the firefights last longer than half a second.

[Neurosonic]

Well after update enemies rly hitting harder, especially on t3-t4 unlike was before, looked like 20lvls have dmg like 30lvls mobs...

I love to play solo more then play in co-op, playing with co-op only defense missions or interceptions with friends or random ppl for faster exping of my stuff.

I didn't know about buffs accuracy with ppl or solo actually :D noticed only that more numbers of enemies on co-op then in solo playing.

I think buff accuracy have not to be so essential like AI or smth tactical moves\actions maybe...

I don't like system from Diablo with growing enemies etc, need smth different here. I didn't play in Destiny, but maybe system of enemies etc from that game would be nice here, smarter enemies more interesting then their growing dmg and HP, thoughts...

[Plorf]

Actually, solo mode scales very well in most occasions.

The problem here is you joined a run with guys too OP for that mission run.

Try finding people who are stuggling to run that mission solo as well and do a run with them. It won't be that easy to complete the mission.

 

However, solo mission doesn't scale well for the Survival. This mission type depends on the ammount of enemy spawns. And since there are less enemies in solo mode, it is also more difficult to keep the Oxygen up.

 

 

 

 

Everything is awesooooooome!

Survival and defense/mobile def. are all pretty hard solo regardless. But yeah, a large part of the issue is the unreliability of finding good partners. I remember when I first started, it felt really jarring to play through the first several missions and having a fair bit of challenge, then reaching the boss nodes only to have them be utterly destroyed by a higher level player. And if the boss scaled up, I wouldn't even be able to scratch it.

 

If there were some way to restrict power level of players joining lower level parties, or prevent people above a certain point from joining some missions, it could help. But that might be a step too far, don't want to annoy people who have put a lot of time into the game.

[fatpig84]

Normal game = solo hard

Archwing = solo easier.

 

Survival = solo is hardest.

Arguably Survival is the worst mode to solo. You are too dependent on RnG for gas.

And the lower mob density makes it harder to give you enough life support to stay alive.

[MechaTails]

Im going to have to agree that the enemies seem to do more damage/are more accurate. Recently ive been dying as soon as i enter a game. Theres a delay when you enter a public game for like 2 seconds, when all the tiles and characters and enemies are loading, and sometimes your warframe is headless lol. The enemies can still kill you in theat time, even though you cant move or do anything.

[(XBOX)Warden Cleric]

I think if you put your search to solo enemies become slightly weaker and do less damage.But when you co-oping the enemies get slightly stronger depending on stats from other players and you without moving up in level of enemies but at the same time the enemies won't be to Op and are still able to kill easier or harder depending on said unit.

 

It will make solo much easier and co-op much harder while making it a challenge.

[Rhaenxys]

I dont really have a problem with solo, i cant say the same about co-op tho, co-op gameplay should scale with more players.

[HackShield]

Well after update enemies rly hitting harder, especially on t3-t4 unlike was before, looked like 20lvls have dmg like 30lvls mobs...

I love to play solo more then play in co-op, playing with co-op only defense missions or interceptions with friends or random ppl for faster exping of my stuff.

I didn't know about buffs accuracy with ppl or solo actually :D noticed only that more numbers of enemies on co-op then in solo playing.

I think buff accuracy have not to be so essential like AI or smth tactical moves\actions maybe...

I don't like system from Diablo with growing enemies etc, need smth different here. I didn't play in Destiny, but maybe system of enemies etc from that game would be nice here, smarter enemies more interesting then their growing dmg and HP, thoughts...

you cant go for smarter enemies cause the game gains exp from higher lvl and more enmies = more exp you need to hold the enemies stupid enjoy so exp farming is make able you know or wanna fight your &#! of merkur and playing hide and seek to get in 50 runs lvl 13 on your weapon xD

[Babellon]

Personally, I think Coop and Solo are both very easy. On Coop maps you have 2-4 players, mobs become unimportant. Solo play, they reduce the mob count drastically and to me really make the entire experience far to easy and simple. If they reduce mob counts on solo maps any lower, there won't be any mobs to fight at all. I have had far to many occasions where spawns are non existent and run through entire maps, empty all the way to objectives, with at best 60-70 mobs through the entire location. 

Solo play in my opinion should be hard. Coop should be scaled up to be harder based on number of players on team. sure it scales the mob counts by players and conclaves, but most of us just blow right past mobs on pub maps. Solo play should be you against those odds, not you against scaled down thinned out forces. So I guess my response to op is no, I don't think solo is to hard, in fact I think it and coop both are entirely to easy, and what worries me is that they are going to scale it back even more. It doesn't need scaling down, it needs scaling up.

[perfectStranger]

Perhaps a difficulty multiplier with the number of players there are in the team, like in the Diablo series, may solve a few difficulty problems.

 

Have a baseline level/difficulty for solo or single players and multiply difficulty with how many people there are.

 

1 Player: x1

2 Players: x1.4 - x1.8?

3 Players: x1.75 - 2.25?

4. Players: x2.5?

 

Just suggestions though.

 

Hopefully to be applied to enemies' aim accuracy and AI response times/aggressiveness.

Enemies level shouldn't scale instead (like in endless missions).

Edited November 4, 2014 by perfectStranger