Limbo Is Selfish ( Proposed Change )

[DrBorris]

I previously though Zephyr was the most selfish Warframe. Her first two abilities are only for her getting around, Turbulence is only for her protection, and how often does Tornados really benefit the team?

Then came Limbo.

 

Don’t get me wrong, Limbo is in a decent place right now. I am having a lot of fun with him and will probably be using him even on higher level missions as he is now. The problem is that I feel like a jerk while playing him.

 

• Banish steals enemies from being able to be killed by allies, yeah, it is great for Limbo, but it sucks for everyone else. And if you try to sue some teamwork and banish people, well, it may not be wee received on the other end.
• Rift Walk is Limbo’s way of accessing his own little world. He leaves the presence of his allies and does his own thing.
• Rift Surge is the worst… Limbo gives a hefty damage boost for only his world. Sure, you can use cataclysm to share the boost, but you are confined to close combat and allies may not like that. And again, banishing players rarely goes well.
• Cataclysm picks a group of enemies and brings them to Limbo’s little world. If someone else wants to use ranged weapons, sucks to be them.

 

I repeat… Limbos abilities are great. The synergy is awesome, he opens up great possibilities for new strategies, and I personally find it really fun. But the fun is only for Limbo.

 

My thought is just to add a new ability in a way that opens up Limbos little world so that allies are not dependent on him and so that Limbo contributes to the team.

 

The basic principle is that Limbo is merging the two planes in an area so that both planes can be damaged. So any ally in this bubble where the planes are merged can damage both planes, no matter where the enemy is. In a sense, when in the bubble you are in both planes thus you can damage both planes equally. As a downside, you can also be damaged by both planes if standing in the bubble.

• I have seen some things about merging Rift Walk and Banish, so this could easily be a new ability to go there.
• Or it can replace Rift Surge. When Limbo merges the two planes, the energy of the colliding planes amplifies the damage of all those inside the bubble (300% damage). This is based on the origin of the damage, not the end area. Thus, someone can sit in the bubble and snipe enemies all over the map and get the 300% damage.

 

 

[Archistopheles]

Trolls aside, I play Limbo like a nuker. Use cataclysm away from team mates on enemy choke-points. It deals damage each time they enter. Use banish twice on enemies. It deals a great deal of damage, and knocks them down (if they don't die from it). Rift walk and Surge are situational.

[DaftMeat]

Rift Plane

The below lists contain universal attributes shared by all while inside the Rift Plane:

Bonuses:

Warframes recharge 2 energy per second (stacks with Energy Siphon).

Most Warframe powers used in the rift can affect units on both planes.

Projectiles enhanced by powers such as Electric Shield can affect units on both planes.

Abilities such as Hysteria cannot affect units on different planes.

 

True, the fast energy recharge isn't very intuitive or well known, but Warframes can still spam abilities to eliminate enemies. The only real problem is the lack of ability to pick up items which is under no one's control except for Limbo.

[Zakharon]

Last I checked any allies in the rift get massive energy regen so selfish? I don't think so

Edited November 4, 2014 by Zakharon

[Genoscythe]

Trolls aside, I play Limbo like a nuker. Use cataclysm away from team mates on enemy choke-points. It deals damage each time they enter. Use banish twice on enemies. It deals a great deal of damage, and knocks them down (if they don't die from it). Rift walk and Surge are situational.

Same way, I play him with transient fortitude and and intensify, fleeting expertise. He creates a fast closing rift that deals damage. Damage values are not scaling properly though and limiting his damage abilities (in/out damage doesnt scale and the second explosion doesnt deal damage).

 

With rift walk I can evade enemy projectile for 3 seconds to get to cover without holding me in too long to be useless.

[AXCrusnik]

Limbo is only seen as selfish because the majority of players who haven't used him for themselves to figure out his powers don't know about any of this:

 

 

Rift Plane

The below lists contain universal attributes shared by all while inside the Rift Plane:

Bonuses:

Warframes recharge 2 energy per second (stacks with Energy Siphon).

Most Warframe powers used in the rift can affect units on both planes.

Projectiles enhanced by powers such as Electric Shield can affect units on both planes.

Abilities such as Hysteria cannot affect units on different planes.

 

Also because of this many Limbo's just don't bother Banishing teammates because they assume they won't know the above and claim you're a troll.

Edited November 4, 2014 by AXCrusnik

[-Jack.Of.Blades-]

Same way, I play him with transient fortitude and and intensify, fleeting expertise. He creates a fast closing rift that deals damage. Damage values are not scaling properly though and limiting his damage abilities (in/out damage doesnt scale and the second explosion doesnt deal damage).

 

With rift walk I can evade enemy projectile for 3 seconds to get to cover without holding me in too long to be useless.

I tried this build and I am not really impressed (not from reading your post granted I also thought of this type of build and play tested it)I mostly agree with the OP on how he feels selfish even with the void walk energy regen it keeps your allies from grabbing energy orbs so in most ways for energy its useless ATM.

[7grims]

Actually zephyr and ember are 2 frames that serve as good examples to point out limbos problem.

 

zephyr does have 2 abilities that are meant to connect and play with each other, even so these two abilities 1st and 2nd, do work on their own, and even make damage or stuns (don't remember properly)

 

Ember also haves her accelarent that is pretty irrelevant if you dont hit the enemy with fire damage, but again it is pretty useful, and works on its own for the stun effect it makes, its actually her best ability in my eyes.

 

All these are synergy abilities, that by connecting them, or chaining these abilities together creates a further extended affect or increases its usefulness.

Limbo's abilities are PURE synergy, they only work or have use if you use one of the others, making his abilities useless and trash on their own.

You are forced, its mandatory, you are obligated, to cast 2 or several of his abilities for the others to have any purpose.

This makes his all deck of abilities a gimmick, or redundant abilities that do the same non necessary stuff only affecting different parameters of the same trick.

 

And at the end, it's also all that problematic of being selfish or troll like, as you point out.

Edited November 4, 2014 by 7grims

[DrBorris]

Rift Plane

The below lists contain universal attributes shared by all while inside the Rift Plane:

Bonuses:

Warframes recharge 2 energy per second (stacks with Energy Siphon).

Most Warframe powers used in the rift can affect units on both planes.

Projectiles enhanced by powers such as Electric Shield can affect units on both planes.

Abilities such as Hysteria cannot affect units on different planes.

 

True, the fast energy recharge isn't very intuitive or well known, but Warframes can still spam abilities to eliminate enemies. The only real problem is the lack of ability to pick up items which is under no one's control except for Limbo.

 

Yes, I do know about this stuff. As for the energy recharge, yeah that is nice, but it limits a player to only using their abilities. Said player must bend their style to fit into Limbo's grand plan. There are many players who do not press 1-4 before the fire a gun. As for the projectiles enhanced, well, what if that frame is not there? Having projectiles that go through electric shield is awesome and a great addition (even if i am not entirely sure DE did it on purpose), but what about most other frames that don't have some projectile altering ability? 

 

Yes, someone can ask for energy and Limbo can assist in that matter, but that assistance comes at quite a downfall for the player. Part of the problem (most of the problem) is that allies do not have control over what they are doing, it is the hands of Limbo. 

 

I am NEVER going to banish a teammate without their discression. It is not fair for me to alter their play-style to fit mine. 

 

Edit: fixed grammar stuff.

Edited November 4, 2014 by DrBorris

[Genoscythe]

I tried this build and I am not really impressed (not from reading your post granted I also thought of this type of build and play tested it)I mostly agree with the OP on how he feels selfish even with the void walk energy regen it keeps your allies from grabbing energy orbs so in most ways for energy its useless ATM.

Oh of course hes horribly underpowered with this build, but its the best to level him and actually not troll your team too much. He basically needs more of everything, team dynamics, damage, control.

[GreyEnneract]

Last I checked any allies in the rift get massive energy regen so selfish? I don't think so

Massive?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Zakharon]

Massive?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Lets see the slow &#! energy regen of 1 player or Limbo's regen hmmmm I take Limbo

[R34LM]

Limbo may be selfish, but he isn't the first one. Ash anyone? His abilities all revolve around doing the most damage in the end and, if it became a problem, kill stealing. His ultimate is also one of few abilities that scales well into late game. I'm just using intensify and am still having a good effect on level 30-40.

 

Back to Limbo, in concept he shoud be supportive to take a heavy unit out of the picture. In execution, he just sends himself into the rift and watches the fight :P.

[TheOniStixx]

Limbos real problem is the fact the his damage is very selective at best. He can only attack people in the rift when using his abilities and as such limits their overall use. I don't have a problem with Cataclysm as I use that as a road block because it damages people entering and exiting it and covers a large area so that you can cover an area by yourself using his third ability at the same time. I only have problems with his Banish ability, and the fact you can't pick up items. 

 

Banish is a cool idea but it should affect more than one enemy. I think that if you target an enemy with the ability it should release a small burst that puts thing halfway into the rift, with the original target going fully into the rift. If the are allies that get hit with the burst and are halfway in the rift have a small reduction to damage taken, while enemies half in the rift are slowed or do less damage. Entities halfway in the rift also can attack enemies in both dimensions and take damage from both dimensions. I think a change like this would make Limbos powers less problematic for players and give him some more options for his abilities in game.

Edited November 5, 2014 by TheOniStixx

[jjpdn]

I believe that Limbo's real problem is that allies aren't able to get out of the rift by themselves.

I think DE should just let players be able to send themselves out of the rift, but not in.