Seriously, De. It's Time To Buff Lato Vandal, Aklato, And Lato Prime.

[Similon]

I loved the Lato when I first started, after a period of absence I was quite disappointed to find it useless. Overall it's one of my favourite secondaries, the nice generic, reliable pistol. Simple design, no gimmicks etc.

 

Then there's the awesome statue sitting to my left, with the beautiful AkLato, that I so very much want to use ingame, but they just don't do anything...

T'is all very depressing.

 

Sooo, yeah. I support this suggestion.

(& Braton Prime)

 

It is kinda strange to see the closest-to-iconic weapons in the game (Skana and to an extent the Latos and Bratons) also being the worst. Most games like to show off the shiniest, flashiest, bestest things.

[Arkezuli]

Yo DE, I've seen threads with much less support get answered. Any chance we can have an official word on this?

[Evan-0-matic]

Yo DE, I've seen threads with much less support get answered. Any chance we can have an official word on this?

[Rydian]

I loved the Lato when I first started, after a period of absence I was quite disappointed to find it useless. Overall it's one of my favourite secondaries, the nice generic, reliable pistol. Simple design, no gimmicks etc.

 

Then there's the awesome statue sitting to my left, with the beautiful AkLato, that I so very much want to use ingame, but they just don't do anything...

T'is all very depressing.

 

Sooo, yeah. I support this suggestion.

(& Braton Prime)

 

It is kinda strange to see the closest-to-iconic weapons in the game (Skana and to an extent the Latos and Bratons) also being the worst. Most games like to show off the shiniest, flashiest, bestest things.

To be fair, it's starting gear.  It's not supposed to be the best or last a long time.  Starting gear will always be weaker than gear acquired later, and that's how it should be.

 

That said, the Lato variants should definitely be buffed to match the base model, and the Braton Prime is a little underwhelming for a prime, it's a higher-tier version and could use a bigger damage difference.

[fatpig84]

For those saying they got "buffed", for the record, the original Lato did 24 damage.

It was nerfed probably because it was "too close" to the Magnum style pistols like the Vastos and Magnus pistols.

Hell even the Lex.

 

And IIRC the original AKlato had an ROF of 12 !

Edited November 8, 2014 by fatpig84

[Arunafeltz]

And IIRC the original AKlato had an ROF of 12 !

Which was nerfed because Akbolto fanboys were crying, which was also dumb because Akbolto dealt Physics Impact damage- a HUGE advantage. Yeah... people were actually concerned about 'balance' back then.

[Rydian]

I think balancing suggestions that focus on what weapons are and how they perform in relation to other weapons right now will be more successful and more logical than comparisons to how they operated under different mechanics a while ago.

[Similon]

To be fair, it's starting gear.  It's not supposed to be the best or last a long time.  Starting gear will always be weaker than gear acquired later, and that's how it should be.

 

That said, the Lato variants should definitely be buffed to match the base model, and the Braton Prime is a little underwhelming for a prime, it's a higher-tier version and could use a bigger damage difference.

Yeah, I know.

I just love how the Lato (& Skana) look.

 

I think this might be where somebodies suggestion of Dragon-esque equivalents come in...

[-Vane-]

I felt like a boss with Lato. Then it got nerfed...

[Arkezuli]

Yeah, I know.

I just love how the Lato (& Skana) look.

 

I think this might be where somebodies suggestion of Dragon-esque equivalents come in...

 

^ This

 

We need upgraded equivalents of Braton/Lato/AkLato/Skana/DualSkana

[markus230]

Not only Lato Vandal needs buff, Braton Vandal is useless as well, its sad when im looking into my inventory and seeing both of these guns, long ago these weapons was decent, now they are crap. Whats the point of giving us trophies that we dont gonna use because they suck? Braton Vandal was been my favourite rifle, then they nerfed it... same thing with Lato Vandal

[-CM-Rogusdra]

Still waiting for the Braton Prime to get buffed.

this

[Brynslustafir]

I sincerely doubt that we'll see a fix this week. But I won't stop talking about it until we get one. 

[Arkezuli]

[snip]I won't stop talking about it until we get one.

[Neocyberman]

I remember using the lato and thinking to myself "this is pretty weak" This was before I got up close and personal with the armor scaling.

 

I got my hands on the aklato and I must say that looking at the stats alone had me scared to use it. Then I used it. Goodness is it just... nothing! It does nothing around the levels its supposed to be meant to be used and doesnt survive into mars really.

 

I've been poking around with all the guns in the game and even as bad as the power creep is I could see where the guns could be used. The lato and its variants have not fit any niche except waste of time.

[Malikon]

Folks,

 

Neither Lato variants nor Braton variants made it into the newest community hot topics, but Rhino did.  Drop in and give them a reminder:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/341525-november-7th-community-hot-topics/

 

[Othergrunty]

To be fair, it's starting gear.  It's not supposed to be the best or last a long time.  Starting gear will always be weaker than gear acquired later, and that's how it should be.

 

The problem with that statement is that the starting gear system in Warframe has changed to the point where the Lato and the Skana should no longer be reduced to that role.

 

When the game went open beta it was correct. The MK-1 Braton, the Lato and the Skana were the only default starting gear. They were weapons everyone begann with and which they were encouraged to get rid off asap. For each of these weapons you could get a straight upgrade relative early.

The Mk-1 Braton could easily be replaced by the regular Braton, the Lato could be turned into the Bolto and the Skana could be quickly replaced with the Cronus you would get from Captain Vor right at the end of Mercury.

 

However times have changed.

Now the player can pick from various weapons as starting gear option right at the beginning and the Cronus has actualy become rare. We now got:

The Mk-1 Braton, Mk-1 Paris and Mk-1 strun for primaries.

The Lato, MK-1 Kunai and Mk-1 Furis for secondaries.

The Skana, Mk-1 Bo and Mk-1 Furax for melee.

 

7 out of 9 of starter weapons are now downgraded versions of mid level worthy weapons under the Mk-1 title. The sole exception being the Lato and the Skana which sticks out as rather odd, especialy given their descriptions.

Why are these two the only weapons which have to carry the "starter gear" stigma by themselves instead of having downgraded versions to take the blow?

 

There is no good reason anymore for the Lato and Skana to be so weak. The starter gear argument has been made invalid thanks to the Mk-1 series of weapons.

They are part of the siganture weapons of the game. The dev team even got a sweet Skana replica recently. These two weapons deserve better than being "starting gear", they should be in the "basic yet reliable" category.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Othergrunty

[Arkezuli]

The problem with that statement is that the starting gear system in Warframe has changed to the point where the Lato and the Skana should no longer be reduced to that role.

 

When the game went open beta it was correct. The MK-1 Braton, the Lato and the Skana were the only default starting gear. They were weapons everyone begann with and which they were encouraged to get rid off asap. For each of these weapons you could get a straight upgrade relative early.

The Mk-1 Braton could easily be replaced by the regular Braton, the Lato could be turned into the Bolto and the Skana could be quickly replaced with the Cronus you would get from Captain Vor right at the end of Mercury.

 

However times have changed.

Now the player can pick from various weapons as starting gear option right at the beginning and the Cronus has actualy become rare. We now got:

The Mk-1 Braton, Mk-1 Paris and Mk-1 strun for primaries.

The Lato, MK-1 Kunai and Mk-1 Furis for secondaries.

The Skana, Mk-1 Bo and Mk-1 Furax for melee.

 

7 out of 9 of starter weapons are now downgraded versions of mid level worthy weapons under the Mk-1 title. The sole exception being the Lato and the Skana which sticks out as rather odd, especialy given their descriptions.

Why are these two the only weapons which have to carry the "starter gear" stigma by themselves instead of having downgraded versions to take the blow?

 

There is no good reason anymore for the Lato and Skana to be so weak. The starter gear argument has been made invalid thanks to the Mk-1 series of weapons.

They are part of the siganture weapons of the game. The dev team even got a sweet Skana replica recently. These two weapons deserve better than being "starting gear", they should be in the "basic yet reliable" category.

This is the kind of post I wish I could just spam upvotes on...

[Rydian]

The problem with that statement is that the starting gear system in Warframe has changed to the point where the Lato and the Skana should no longer be reduced to that role.

 

When the game went open beta it was correct. The MK-1 Braton, the Lato and the Skana were the only default starting gear. They were weapons everyone begann with and which they were encouraged to get rid off asap. For each of these weapons you could get a straight upgrade relative early.

The Mk-1 Braton could easily be replaced by the regular Braton, the Lato could be turned into the Bolto and the Skana could be quickly replaced with the Cronus you would get from Captain Vor right at the end of Mercury.

 

However times have changed.

Now the player can pick from various weapons as starting gear option right at the beginning and the Cronus has actualy become rare. We now got:

The Mk-1 Braton, Mk-1 Paris and Mk-1 strun for primaries.

The Lato, MK-1 Kunai and Mk-1 Furis for secondaries.

The Skana, Mk-1 Bo and Mk-1 Furax for melee.

 

7 out of 9 of starter weapons are now downgraded versions of mid level worthy weapons under the Mk-1 title. The sole exception being the Lato and the Skana which sticks out as rather odd, especialy given their descriptions.

Why are these two the only weapons which have to carry the "starter gear" stigma by themselves instead of having downgraded versions to take the blow?

 

There is no good reason anymore for the Lato and Skana to be so weak. The starter gear argument has been made invalid thanks to the Mk-1 series of weapons.

They are part of the siganture weapons of the game. The dev team even got a sweet Skana replica recently. These two weapons deserve better than being "starting gear", they should be in the "basic yet reliable" category.

The starter weapons category having increased in number has no bearing on how far into the game they should scale... especially since new weapons were created just for that purpose.  Created to be baseline gear that later weapons are more powerful than, but harder to acquire.

 

Once again the argument for buffing in general is boiling down to "I like this stuff so it shouldn't stay weak"?  That's the line of thinking that unbalances the game.  Everybody has weapons they like, whether it be for the looks, firing mechanics, lore, nostalgia, etc.  And nobody likes it when their favorite weapon is weak, so for any given weapon you'll find somebody wanting a buff for it.  But weapons still need to be tiered properly.  There need to be weapons that are easy to acquire and weak.

 

When the argument for buffing, however, is "Weapon X is equal to or harder than Weapon Y to acquire, but is much weaker", then that's a balance concern and a legit call to buff weapon X.  Like the Aklato being harder to acquire than the Lato, but weaker, there's a legit reason to buff the Aklato.

[Othergrunty]

The starter weapons category having increased in number has no bearing on how far into the game they should scale... especially since new weapons were created just for that purpose.  Created to be baseline gear that later weapons are more powerful than, but harder to acquire.

 

The starter weapon category has not just increased in number, it now actualy got a system which designates what counts as a starter weapon and by a majority of 7 out of 9 that designation is being an MK-1 variant.An inferior copy of an actualy usefull regular weapon.

Also not a single "new" weapon in the sense of new model or name has been created for this expansion of the starter weapon category. All we got are inferior copies of the SAME existing weapons. The Paris, Bo and the others have NOT been downgraded to starter weapons either, they keep existing as potent regular versions.

 

If they had created 7 brand new weapons, all with unique models and names, just to introduce them as the new starter gear weapons that would have been "new" weapons, not copies.

 

So if they can create identical looking and named downgraded copies as the defacto "throw away asap" type starter gear, what speaks against this going the other way for the Lato and Skana too?

 

Once again the argument for buffing in general is boiling down to "I like this stuff so it shouldn't stay weak"?  That's the line of thinking that unbalances the game.  Everybody has weapons they like, whether it be for the looks, firing mechanics, lore, nostalgia, etc.  (...)

 

I do admit that you are right in that no weapon should be buffed out their "tier" purely by popuarlity based on it's design, since that's just motivation and not a good argument for wanting buffs. Also it most likely drove Scott nuts allready.

 

However with the changes to the starter weapons cateogry which we got with Update 14, which also had the tiny buff to the Lato allready, there is now a good real argument for there to be a buffed second variant of the Lato.

Based on that a buff to the Vandal and Prime variants would also have a good basis.

 

Though at least we got your support on getting the AkLato in line at least.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Othergrunty

[TrinityPrime]

What if (to everyone's dismay) they released Syndicate mods that buff them more than any other mod could so they can perform reasonably well when maxed for t3-t4 content

[Rydian]

The starter weapon category has not just increased in number, it now actualy got a system which designates what counts as a starter weapon and by a majority of 7 out of 9 that designation is being an MK-1 variant.An inferior copy of an actualy usefull regular weapon.

Also not a single "new" weapon in the sense of new model or name has been created for this expansion of the starter weapon category.

I don't want more lookalikes that just have changed damage and the same model/graphics to exist, if that's where this is going.  Like, the idea of making things uniform is nice, but I don't like duplicate weapons as it is, personally, and I certainly do not want more, even if it comes at the cost of two starter weapons having mismatched names.

 

All we got are inferior copies of the SAME existing weapons. The Paris, Bo and the others have NOT been downgraded to starter weapons either, they keep existing as potent regular versions.

And the Lato got buffed to match the others.

(But the variants didn't which is why this thread was made.)

 

So if they can create identical looking and named downgraded copies as the defacto "throw away asap" type starter gear, what speaks against this going the other way for the Lato and Skana too?

Well, that's usually priming... but those primes already exist and will never be redistributed, founders might be annoyed if higher-tier versions were to exist, since the Lato Prime is lacking already.

 

However with the changes to the starter weapons cateogry which we got with Update 14, which also had the tiny buff to the Lato allready, there is now a good real argument for there to be a buffed second variant of the Lato.

I don't really see any legit reasons though.  I see feelings and reasons why things should be changed, but none of them revolve around game balance, they're all personal feelings and OCD-like things.

 

Aklato, Lato Prime, and Lato Vandal being buffed, however, is totally an actual balance issue and I can get behind that for logical reasons because it makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What if (to everyone's dismay) they released Syndicate mods that buff them more than any other mod could so they can perform reasonably well when maxed for t3-t4 content

Considering it takes ~82 warframe forma worth of affinity to obtain a single weapon mod when starting from 0 standing, I don't think there's any fear of newer players getting those and skipping weapon tiers.  That'd fall into the "make the specialists happy" category.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Rydian

[Similon]

Once again the argument for buffing in general is boiling down to "I like this stuff so it shouldn't stay weak"?  That's the line of thinking that unbalances the game.  Everybody has weapons they like, whether it be for the looks, firing mechanics, lore, nostalgia, etc.

imo, that's a very important thing.

 

We have somewhat worthwile (or "end game" if you're into that sort of classification) Full auto, burst fire and Semi automatic rifles. Various curious shotguns, LMGs, whatever.

 

Secondaries? We have a few hand cannons & revolvers that are considered good. 3 Shotguns (or hand cannons if you believe the descriptions). A nice bolt weapon or 3, the throwing weapons seem to go down well. Then we have the pocket miniguns, cut down Lever Action rifles and a load of SMG/PDW/MP's.

Hell, we even have Rocket Launchers, Dolphins and Dart guns.

 

As for your classic Pistol?

Semi Auto, >10 round magazine, decent firerate etc.

The trusty sidearms used by everybody irl, that we're all so accustomed to? The go-to weapon for so many gamers?

 

There's a Lato. If you want the pistol one would expect to be using, you'll be sorely disappointed. I guess if you ignore the fact that the Lex is nothing like it, you could claim the Lex fills this role. Maybe even Bolto if you (once again) want to pretend I'm talking about something I'm not.

 

So, yeah. Here's an Archtype we're missing. This doesn't necessarily mean Lato needs to be made Uber - Just that it'd be nice to have all the options. Rather than just Mareloks and Brakks as far as the eye can see.

[[DE]Momaw]

Aklato needs to be fixed to be the equivalent of a pair of Lato pistols.  I call it a fix rather than a buff, because there is a precedent for dual pistols and the Aklato does not conform.

 

I don't care about the rest. Weapons I don't have and can't get, GG.

 

 

 

As for your classic Pistol?

Semi Auto, >10 round magazine, decent firerate etc.

The trusty sidearms used by everybody irl, that we're all so accustomed to? The go-to weapon for so many gamers?

 

There's a Lato. If you want the pistol one would expect to be using, you'll be sorely disappointed. I guess if you ignore the fact that the Lex is nothing like it, you could claim the Lex fills this role. Maybe even Bolto if you (once again) want to pretend I'm talking about something I'm not.

 

How does the Bolto not match exactly you outlined. It's semi auto, >10 rounds, and a decent fire rate. It's got quite high damage for a secondary, fast reload, good status chance...     The big mechanical difference is hitscan versus not hitscan, but you didn't specify this as being a criteria.  (puzzled)

Edited November 11, 2014 by Momaw

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP