My Two Cents On Rhino, As A Mainer Since Founders.

[Arkezuli]

As straightforward as it can be.

But first of all, I'd like to let it clear that I'm not a powercreeping Rhinewb. I despise PC weapons like Boltor and Soma, and mained the Braton/AkLato/Bo for a LONG time. And only switched to their Primes as I got each. Rhino was my first frame, right after Excalidude, and I'm a really proud mainer of it. I've tried and still try up to this day several builds on it. Both cheap ones, for fun, and complex ones, to test their actual performance/viability.

Rhino Charge

 

- Rhino ACTUALLY charges forward (AKA runs forward full speed throwing afar everything in his way), instead of just "sliding" like Excal's Slash Dash and similar skills, and any enemy he hits receives a small impact damage and gets sent flying.

(This skill needs purpose. And getting off a serious mobbing seems like what it was designed for. Problem is, it got accidentally bugged/nerfed to stop whenever it collided with a barrier of enemies. Making it useless to get away. My suggestion aims to give it a purpose again.)

2nd Skill: (Suggestions encouraged)

Roar

 

- Roar and IS are now one. Now Rhino's Roar Increases Teammates' damage AND gives himself a IS-ish effect. (Temporary 90% Damage reduction? Regular IS but scaled to the middle-levels of enemies in that area? Regular IS but with a more "Glowy-ish" energy effect, so that it would no longer obstruct our hard worked frames coloring? IDK...)

 

Stomp

 

- Remove stasis and replace it to make enemies fly away from caster instead of going into stasis and receive impact damage (Same amount as now). It feels stupid even for game logic standards. And nerf the range just a tiny bit (about 1/5th to 1/6th?), it feels way too cheap as it is now. Both unmodded and maximized.

Continuity now makes enemies take longer to get up after flying and falling (+1 seconds for every wall they hit before reaching ground?)

Comments, suggestions, ideas and reasoned disagreements are encouraged.

Raging, trolling, straight nay-sayings and the like are not.


Thanks for your time. I'll update this post if I see any interesting/good/creative ideas and/or suggestions if I see them.

 

 

EDIT: POST UPDATED TO A 2.0 VERSION, BASED ON RENEWED OPINIONS AND YOUR FEEDBACK. KEEP IT COMING!

Edited November 24, 2014 by CenSilver

[xlraistlx]

As straightforward as it can be.

But first of all, I'd like to let it clear that I'm not a powercreeping Rhinewb. I despise PC weapons like Boltor and Soma, and mained the Braton/AkLato/Bo for a LONG time. And only switched to their Primes as I got each. Rhino was my first frame, right after Excalidude, and I'm a really proud mainer of it. I've tried and still try up to this day several builds on it. Both cheap ones, for fun, and complex ones, to test their actual performance/viability.

Rhino Charge - Rhino ACTUALLY charges forward (NOT slide), and any enemy he hits receives a small impact damage and gets sent flying.

His distance charged and area of impact are BOTH affected by Reach.

Damage is affected by Strenght.

Continuity does nothing.

This is as far as I got reading (by now).

 

Rhino Charge IS affected by Power Duration mods.

 

Go with a Fleeting Expertise and use Rhino Charge, it'll become Rhino Step.

 

I feel lied about the "mainer" thing.

 

Edit:

OH I got it. Forget this post.

 

Edit₂:

Actually the Rhino Charge change would need a change on Excal's Slash & Dash, Zephyr's Tail Wind (and maye another ability I cannot recall right now) as they work under the same mechanics.

 

It would be more intuitive but would require a rework not just a frame's abilities.

Edited November 5, 2014 by xlraistlx

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Honestly if I could change one thing with Rhino outside his abilities I would bring Rhino Prime's speed down slightly to Saryn's speed (.95 instead of 1.0 or the .9 of normal Rhino) and decrease the Vanguard helmet's speed boost to .15.

 

I'm okay with Iron Skin's invulnerability, but I wish the ability were duration or drain based. I like drain the best, as it encourages people to only use it when they most need it. Then I'd couple the ability with insane aggro so Rhino can help teammates escape danger just by activating it near them.

[taiiat]

eh. Roar does need to do more. the Damage Bonus it gives with absolutely maxed out Power Strength is significantly inferior to Damage bonuses that some other Frames have.

 

it doesn't need to be only Damage Bonus though. it can be made more useful with more Features as well. i don't have anything off the top of my head though.

 

 

 

and the kit in general needs to have more incentive for Power Duration.

all Abilities should have Features tied to each Mod Effect. choose the ones you want, be it all of them, or just one or a few of them. a reason to use all Mod Effects for all Abilities. because more customization and specialization in that regard can only improve Warframe.

[123Olympian]

Rhino is my main too since being a founder. 

 

I never use charge as it has no real effect than getting me around to extraction.(Seriously step it up for that one.)

 

The uber would actually benefit from that, as I would rather have the foes flown back than just a ton standing there.

 

On the other hand, it is a utility and that is what can make a warframe God-tier from Top-tier.

 

Iron skin needs a buff for the end-gamers.

 

The hp should be uped for the last upgrade, and maybe even a few seconds invincibility as Valkyr has it already.

Don't want it a think though. Seriously, that few seconds on Pluto can save lives. 

 

In my eyes, utility is as important as a musican's tone on an instrument. It can be perfected, with much work. Dev-wise and more importantly player-wise. Players should grow with their frame, not using some cheap shot over and over.

[mistopportunity]

Is this thread serious orrrr not?

Edited November 5, 2014 by mistopportunity

[Arkezuli]

Honestly if I could change one thing with Rhino outside his abilities I would bring Rhino Prime's speed down slightly to Saryn's speed (.95 instead of 1.0 or the .9 of normal Rhino) and decrease the Vanguard helmet's speed boost to .15.

 

I'm okay with Iron Skin's invulnerability, but I wish the ability were duration or drain based. I like drain the best, as it encourages people to only use it when they most need it. Then I'd couple the ability with insane aggro so Rhino can help teammates escape danger just by activating it near them.

 

Agreed with nerfing Rhino Prime's base speed. but don't touch the Arcanes. they're already a f*cked up enough past decision as they are.

 

Energy based Invul is cool. since it deosn't really render you invincible, like Valkyr. And god yes give me back my IS aggro. Rhino ain't Rhino without it...

 

eh. Roar does need to do more. the Damage Bonus it gives with absolutely maxed out Power Strength is significantly inferior to Damage bonuses that some other Frames have.

 

it doesn't need to be only Damage Bonus though. it can be made more useful with more Features as well. i don't have anything off the top of my head though.

 

 

 

and the kit in general needs to have more incentive for Power Duration.

all Abilities should have Features tied to each Mod Effect. choose the ones you want, be it all of them, or just one or a few of them. a reason to use all Mod Effects for all Abilities. because more customization and specialization in that regard can only improve Warframe.

 

Care to list those superior Frames' so superior buffing skills?

Rhino is my main too since being a founder. 

 

I never use charge as it has no real effect than getting me around to extraction.(Seriously step it up for that one.)

 

The uber would actually benefit from that, as I would rather have the foes flown back than just a ton standing there.

 

On the other hand, it is a utility and that is what can make a warframe God-tier from Top-tier.

 

Iron skin needs a buff for the end-gamers.

 

The hp should be uped for the last upgrade, and maybe even a few seconds invincibility as Valkyr has it already.

Don't want it a think though. Seriously, that few seconds on Pluto can save lives. 

 

In my eyes, utility is as important as a musican's tone on an instrument. It can be perfected, with much work. Dev-wise and more importantly player-wise. Players should grow with their frame, not using some cheap shot over and over.

 

IS needs a buff overall, Endgame-wise it's fine.

 

Disregarding abilities. I am glad you are not using a Boltor, which means you are not a RhinoNewb. Pick up a Latron Prime/Wraith. Better then the Boltor Prime.

 

Not my kind of weapon, but thanks for the suggestion.

[Insidiatorii]

Take a look at this post I made yesterday---https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/339032-rhino-rhino-rhino-edit-2-fixed-details-added-information/

[Vladokapuh]

I'd rather have him remade back into tank (not, not godmode)
I loved him because of that but now his ability to tank... is not all that great

[Arkezuli]

Take a look at this post I made yesterday---https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/339032-rhino-rhino-rhino-edit-2-fixed-details-added-information/

 

I saw it already... It's what inspired me to make this one.

 

 

I'd rather have him remade back into tank (not, not godmode)

I loved him because of that but now his ability to tank... is not all that great

 

Explain?

[007-Creed]

No, i dont agree with some things of your post. About rhino charge it needs utility because how it is now is complete useless and slide attack with melee does better with no energy costs and depending how high lvl it is it can kill. Iron skin i have 2 ideas: either buff it or change how roar works and make these 2 abilities work together in increasing rhino survivability, since 50% damage boost dont even bother wasting energy. Rhino stomp i totally disagree with decreasing range since is the only reliable ability late game for him, avoiding getting damage so much.

About valkyr she is where it needs to be, she is a tank tank and melee frame making her taking way more damage than if u used your weapon on hysteria. Dont complain about valkyr beeing invincible and poor rhino sucks because that isnt the case. Rhino with good stomp build and a decent team he can survive confortable cause his role his more for support tank, when valkyr is all about hysteria since all damage is taken on health and if u arent careful and fast pressing 4 not even your max armor will save u for much time (talking about late game). The reason to buff iron skin is because doesnt scale on high lvl leaving him rely only on poor 8 seconds CC ulti (the highest cost ability) and as we all know raw HP aborb or raw damage offensive abilities are useless for endless missions. Perhaps and hopefully when Focus system arrives we will have better ability scalling.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Creeda

[Azawarau]

I really like you

 

Though i think the change to stomps stasis is uneeded

 

Perhaps trade some range for an IS and charge buff though

[Mesyra]

Rhino Charge is effected by duration.

 

I will leave this here for your entertainment. this is Constitution, Continuity, both maxed, and a 7/10 Narrrow.

 

http://youtu.be/tXEkXn-zoZ0

Edited November 6, 2014 by VYR3

[Insidiatorii]

I saw it already... It's what inspired me to make this one.

 

 

 

Explain?

Oh hah! That's cool! Next time though if you get and idea off of someone else's post, try to make a footnote of where you got it from, but it's all good, otherwise your ideas are nicely put, I like your thinking.

[Hotshot0507]

Rhino is also my main warframe.

 

Charge: Useless.

Iron Skin: Love it, stops staggers/knockdowns from enemies and laser walls. But as others have said, so weak late in the game.

Roar: Very rarely use it. I one shot most enemies. So the roar animation often is time I could be killing something. My fix: Make roar cost a bit more, but also make it last longer (like 75 to 100 energy and 15s to 25s).

Rhino Stomp: Not the best 4th skill, but I can live with it.

[Arkezuli]

No, i dont agree with some things of your post. About rhino charge it needs utility because how it is now is complete useless and slide attack with melee does better with no energy costs and depending how high lvl it is it can kill. Iron skin i have 2 ideas: either buff it or change how roar works and make these 2 abilities work together in increasing rhino survivability, since 50% damage boost dont even bother wasting energy. Rhino stomp i totally disagree with decreasing range since is the only reliable ability late game for him, avoiding getting damage so much.

About valkyr she is where it needs to be, she is a tank tank and melee frame making her taking way more damage than if u used your weapon on hysteria. Dont complain about valkyr beeing invincible and poor rhino sucks because that isnt the case. Rhino with good stomp build and a decent team he can survive confortable cause his role his more for support tank, when valkyr is all about hysteria since all damage is taken on health and if u arent careful and fast pressing 4 not even your max armor will save u for much time (talking about late game). The reason to buff iron skin is because doesnt scale on high lvl leaving him rely only on poor 8 seconds CC ulti (the highest cost ability) and as we all know raw HP aborb or raw damage offensive abilities are useless for endless missions. Perhaps and hopefully when Focus system arrives we will have better ability scalling.

I dont care if Valkyr is a tank, a tank tank, or a tank tank tank. Invincibility alone is already a broken concept on its own. With HP regen added might as well as give us cheats and godmode.

Rhino Charge is effected by duration.

 

I will leave this here for your entertainment. this is Constitution, Continuity, both maxed, and a 7/10 Narrrow.

 

http://youtu.be/tXEkXn-zoZ0

Did you even read my post?

I main rhino since forever and did zillions of builds in it. I already tried that combination long ago, with the mods fully maxed. And I know what mods affect what.

I won't even bother watching it.

[Phoenix86]

Honestly if I could change one thing with Rhino outside his abilities I would bring Rhino Prime's speed down slightly to Saryn's speed (.95 instead of 1.0 or the .9 of normal Rhino) and decrease the Vanguard helmet's speed boost to .15.

 

Smells of Loki

 

Kidding apart,

i find that Rhino's need an upgrade only on his #1,

Rhino Charge is quite lackluster and i like ur proposal about it.

 

About the rest i disagree or i dont understand what exactly u are proposing... 

ie: u talk about "small buff" to Iron Skin but you say nothing at all about how this buff should be for you

 

About Roar as far as i understood u propose just a small range buff... uhm ok, nothing exceptional, looks fine but i could say "i dont mind"

 

About Stomp i disagree, it's fine as it is both in dmg and functionality imho

[DSpite]

Disregarding abilities. I am glad you are not using a Boltor, which means you are not a RhinoNewb. Pick up a Latron Prime/Wraith. Better then the Boltor Prime.

 

I fail to see the sense in this Statement. I have a Rhino P that I always take out on Alerts with a Boltor P when Forma and Reactors are for grabs, and an Excalibur that mains a whole account and does 99% of the work with a Glaive.

 

Telling players not to use all the tools they have is like saying that if you can't build a house without having to resort to a hammer you're a bad builder.

[007-Creed]

I dont care if Valkyr is a tank, a tank tank, or a tank tank tank. Invincibility alone is already a broken concept on its own. With HP regen added might as well as give us cheats and godmode.

U forget to analyse the rest of frames. Tell me about zephyr turbulence god mod versus corpus/corrupted, loki max range radial disarm (except infested), master killer ash, nyx chaos + absorb, vauban vs infested and if well used even againts all, limbo rift walk.

I mean zhepyr even knockdown nothing gets through turbulence well maybe 1 or 2 bullets? whats the deal?; what in the world can happen to a max range loki radial disarm? well just run and shoot? nothing can hit u rly; what about an ash that just wipes them all in bladestorm; or a nyx with max chaos that just needs step back to not getting shot and absorb as panic button; vauban vortex on infested, limbo rift walk with energy regen and if u feel like killing something just banish, etc etc.

What i mean with this is that besides valkyr other warframes have god mode on their own way too when knowing how to play and tbh this looks like more a topic about "pls buff rhino because valkyr is immortal" instead off "pls buff rhino to be in pair with other frames" where the last one is what makes sense.

As i said b4 i totally agree with rhino buff but i just want ask u something: If u dont agree with god mode or it kills game concept or whatever, why do u want to extend rhino god mode to late game instead of nerfind all the other superior frames to rhino lvl?  

[Vladokapuh]

Explain?

I built him when he was more tank than bruiser, i liked him alot more back then.

IS was op. Godmode was too much..

Make IS draw aggro once again, but that would be suicide during mid-high level play, so improve his ability to take damage.

Maybe give Iron Skin a damage reduction that fades overtime? for example starting at 90% and reducing to normal over 10 seconds? 

Wont change much during low level play as you barelly take any damage there, but would greatly improve his lategame tanking ability.

Or maybe change Iron Skin to be affected by Rhinos armor?

Or add damage reduction to Roar? (keeping damage buff)

Something to make him feel like a proper tank again...

Since he is overplayed arleady, reduce stomp range and/or damage to compensate?

No feedback on charge, since i dont use it all.

Those are my suggestions, but people like him as bruiser so it will probably never go through.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Vladokapuh

[Arkezuli]

Smells of Loki

 

Kidding apart,

i find that Rhino's need an upgrade only on his #1,

Rhino Charge is quite lackluster and i like ur proposal about it.

 

About the rest i disagree or i dont understand what exactly u are proposing... 

ie: u talk about "small buff" to Iron Skin but you say nothing at all about how this buff should be for you

 

About Roar as far as i understood u propose just a small range buff... uhm ok, nothing exceptional, looks fine but i could say "i dont mind"

 

About Stomp i disagree, it's fine as it is both in dmg and functionality imho

 

The IS buff should be just a small resistance buff, since it's not doing very well even in the lowest levels. But it's not a buff to get you to endgames, it's just a buff so you can actually be able to walk around knowing it's gonna be able to protect you for a while.

 

I fail to see the sense in this Statement. I have a Rhino P that I always take out on Alerts with a Boltor P when Forma and Reactors are for grabs, and an Excalibur that mains a whole account and does 99% of the work with a Glaive.

 

Telling players not to use all the tools they have is like saying that if you can't build a house without having to resort to a hammer you're a bad builder.

 

You missed the whole idea behind it.

That line of conversation is being made with the Rhin00b kids who take a Boltor Prime EVERYWHERE because they think it means that they won't ever have to lose. and when they lose, they blame the game, (And often even cry in the forums) because they're just kids and don't understand that it's not the guns that make the skill, but the skill that makes the guns.

 

You're fine, since that's clearly not your case. You just use the gun in the levels you think you should because it's the most effective in them. Which is something else entirely.

 

U forget to analyse the rest of frames. Tell me about zephyr turbulence god mod versus corpus/corrupted, loki max range radial disarm (except infested), master killer ash, nyx chaos + absorb, vauban vs infested and if well used even againts all, limbo rift walk.

I mean zhepyr even knockdown nothing gets through turbulence well maybe 1 or 2 bullets? whats the deal?; what in the world can happen to a max range loki radial disarm? well just run and shoot? nothing can hit u rly; what about an ash that just wipes them all in bladestorm; or a nyx with max chaos that just needs step back to not getting shot and absorb as panic button; vauban vortex on infested, limbo rift walk with energy regen and if u feel like killing something just banish, etc etc.

What i mean with this is that besides valkyr other warframes have god mode on their own way too when knowing how to play and tbh this looks like more a topic about "pls buff rhino because valkyr is immortal" instead off "pls buff rhino to be in pair with other frames" where the last one is what makes sense.

As i said b4 i totally agree with rhino buff but i just want ask u something: If u dont agree with god mode or it kills game concept or whatever, why do u want to extend rhino god mode to late game instead of nerfind all the other superior frames to rhino lvl?  

 

Congratulation. You just found out that Warframe is filled with OPness.

 

But no. I did not forget to analyze the rest of the frames, I simply won't because I'm leaving those who have an actual experience with them. Just like I decided I had the right of a worn on Rhino after years of gaming since the times of Doom and Duke Nukem and more than 3000 Hours playing it in this game.

 

And no, I do not want to extend it to godmode, Much the less to endgame, And I quote what I said above:

 

The IS buff should be just a small resistance buff, since it's not doing very well even in the lowest levels. But it's not a buff to get you to endgames, it's just a buff so you can actually be able to walk around knowing it's gonna be able to protect you for a while.

 

[snip]

 

 

I built him when he was more tank than bruiser, i liked him alot more back then.

IS was op. Godmode was too much..

Make IS draw aggro once again, but that would be suicide during mid-high level play, so improve his ability to take damage.

Maybe give Iron Skin a damage reduction that fades overtime? for example starting at 90% and reducing to normal over 10 seconds? 

Wont change much during low level play as you barelly take any damage there, but would greatly improve his lategame tanking ability.

Or maybe change Iron Skin to be affected by Rhinos armor?

Or add damage reduction to Roar? (keeping damage buff)

Something to make him feel like a proper tank again...

Since he is overplayed arleady, reduce stomp range and/or damage to compensate?

No feedback on charge, since i dont use it all.

Those are my suggestions, but people like him as bruiser so it will probably never go through.

 

I don't like your suggestions, but I agree with the Idea.

 

He should be a tank before all else.

 

What I'm still am trying to figure out is how to put it into my rework suggestions without missing the sweet spot between Cool, Lame, OP, and UP. (Amongst other factors).

Edited November 6, 2014 by CenSilver

[Mesyra]

Did you even read my post?

I main rhino since forever and did zillions of builds in it. I already tried that combination long ago, with the mods fully maxed. And I know what mods affect what.

I won't even bother watching it.

Yes, I read your post. and why dont you just click play and watch a few seconds of it to see what a Duration build does :)

[Arkezuli]

Yes, I read your post. and why dont you just click play and watch a few seconds of it to see what a Duration build does :)

 

As I said (Again.) I know what it does.

So if you have a point, you might want to be more explicit, because I'm not getting it.

 

[Mesyra]

As I said (Again.) I know what it does.

So if you have a point, you might want to be more explicit, because I'm not getting it.

 

you said that Duration does nothing for Charge, It does. it increases the Speed and Duration of the ability. watch the first 30 seconds of the video. you must have had Fleeting or something on your frame when building it.

[xlraistlx]

you said that Duration does nothing for Charge, It does. it increases the Speed and Duration of the ability. watch the first 30 seconds of the video. you must have had Fleeting or something on your frame when building it.

He's asking for the ability to not have an effect by Power Duration, he ain't claiming the ability isn't affected by it.