My Two Cents On Rhino, As A Mainer Since Founders.

[Mesyra]

He's asking for the ability to not have an effect by Power Duration, he ain't claiming the ability isn't affected by it.

well when I read it it sounded like he was saying that it was not changed by it. My mistake.

[Arkezuli]

He's asking for the ability to not have an effect by Power Duration, he ain't claiming the ability isn't affected by it.

 

Thank you.

[ARTHURIA123]

well duration makes it move farther.

[akira_him]

make roar works like Warcry then Rhino would be fine

but I like the idea of rhino charge

[DSpite]

I just want to say that I generally consider statements with "change X would be better for end game" rather dangerous.

 

For IS, because damage scaling from enemy units is ... well ... It's STUPID, but it's required so that new players don't get one shot, and they can actually hurts us later.

 

As extremes, In Borderlands you can't kill anything 5 levels higher then you because every 5 levels it's like a factor of 2, and in a game like Half-Life the entire game is flat, and you just get access to a better arsenal.

 

In here, sub-level 30 units will never hit you enough to strip IS in most missions even once, unless you solo and are the only target - I mean, being in a team is like saying "take a quarter of all damage during that mission" - and after that, it comes off very fast. Making IS even slightly better, because of the "scaling" will make the low end even more trivial.

 

Borderlands has a mechanic that made melee units one-hit your shields if you let them get close, this stopped players finding one Uber-shield from remaining invulnerable for entire maps.

 

I don't want to shoehorn an arbitrary mechanic into the game just to deal with Iron Skin, but because IS is just a block of "extra hit points" and is not mechanically reliant on anything else (it will stay up even on zero energy) you have this line in the sand where the moment it comes off, you have X fraction of a second time to click reapply, and if that X time is too long because of the added animation (not counting QT) you just insta pop.

 

Because you can't reapply at will you feel totally helpless when a mate gets dropped and you are sitting on 5 percent (at least NOW we can see the percentage) and you KNOW that stepping out of cover you don't have time to time it well enough to lose that 5% AND reapply before you pop.

 

My biggest problem is not the amount of points it adds, it could be a LOT lower AFAIC, but the fact I can't repair it, and the casting time + delay time it takes to tell it's gone down. To properly help team mates I'd prefer lower points but ability to repair, so I can apply, go out and do my thing, get back and apply again.

 

I got the Rhino P pack when I came back to WF from when I joined, and "this" Iron Skin behavior is probably my only issue so far. I either feel like I'm wearing spaceship level armor or a cardboard box, with almost no points in between.

[Kruglov]

Still doesn't make Iron Skin helpful for the whole team, or scale for that matter.

 

I like everything else. Especially the whole "get out da way *@##$ get out da way" changes to Rhino Charge and Stomp.

This would not only make the skills better but FAR more hilarious to use and observe.

Turn Rhino into a living Jat-Kittag.

 

Alot of people think Roar is too weak.

Rather than buffing the numbers I think tweaking it to a do something unique would be better like:

- Roar now also gives weapons and warframe powers 30% extra blast damage

or

- Roar now gives teammates 2% lifesteal/lifeleech on their warframe powers

OR

- Roar now increases the fire rate of all currently wielded weapons by 30% for the remainder of the duration

 

 

Now we have something unique that Rhino can give to his team that isn't just 'increase da numbahs' and no other frames can do.

[DSpite]

Yes, but to help where? I can deal fine to level 50 enemies, then play carefully to level 60 enemies ... then what?

 

Balancing for "endless" is not balancing at all. Level 30 enemies should be "end game", with anything above being Nightmare type difficulty. Complaining that Rhino scales badly to level 100 enemies is also stating that it will trivialize all content even when DE makes level 40 encounters on the Solar missions.

 

Why try and make Iron Skin useful againt Level 60-80 enemies when that is NOT the core part of the game. Endless is simply a "filler" because content runs out eventually, and people want to take 8 Forma guns and Frames for a spin.

[Sasquatchias]

I do think Rhino Charge does need a buff, as right now it feels less useful than even Slash Dash.

 

Iron Skin I feel actually needs further balancing. Right now it is incredibly good at low/mid level missions, with you being nearly indestructable on the low level missions. However at high level missions it falls off hard, and at best will last a few seconds if you're under fire.

 

I feel that it should be changed to be effective at all levels, but not broken or useless at certain levels.

[MixterFox]

The only time I find IS to be useful is again infested just so I don't get energy drained so I can keep roar up.

It would prolly be better if it had like 25 or 50% damage resistance for 10 secs effected by duration and the ability to reapply it.

[Arkezuli]

Updated post with revised ideas based on your responses and toughts! thanks all and keep them coming!

[JokerVictor]

Rhino's main problem is Iron Skin. 

Invulnerability of any kind for an infinite duration is just bad bad design.  I mained Rhino for a very long time, and IS combined with max efficiency makes you basically invincible forever, short of the very toughest missions or hour+ survival/defense runs.

 

It's time it gets remade to something that is actually engaging to use... a constant drain while active is a good suggestion.  I would also suggest changing it from the third layer of shields it currently is into a flat rate damage reduction ( 80-90% would be good, calculated after armor and shields -  and yes, keep the CC immunity).  It should generate tons of aggro on the rhino, so you can actively use it to tank... and for god's sake let us block with melee weapons while it's active.

[xRevelation]

That Charge and Stomp ideas +1

[Arkezuli]

Rhino's main problem is Iron Skin. 

Invulnerability of any kind for an infinite duration is just bad bad design.  I mained Rhino for a very long time, and IS combined with max efficiency makes you basically invincible forever, short of the very toughest missions or hour+ survival/defense runs.

 

It's time it gets remade to something that is actually engaging to use... a constant drain while active is a good suggestion.  I would also suggest changing it from the third layer of shields it currently is into a flat rate damage reduction ( 80-90% would be good, calculated after armor and shields -  and yes, keep the CC immunity).  It should generate tons of aggro on the rhino, so you can actively use it to tank... and for god's sake let us block with melee weapons while it's active.

 

No duration makes you invincible forever on any stage. Especially without it being recastable while active. The fractions of second it takes for you to notice it's gone and recast it are enough for some ancients to KD and pinball you inbetween some Toxics and BAM, you're dead and without a chance to fight back.

 

Using Energy drain is a terrible idea. Banshee's Sonic Boom and Nyx's Absorb durations are there to prove us that.

 

As for your suggestion, read my OP. It's pretty much that.

 

And god yes let us block with IS.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

I fail to see the sense in this Statement. I have a Rhino P that I always take out on Alerts with a Boltor P when Forma and Reactors are for grabs, and an Excalibur that mains a whole account and does 99% of the work with a Glaive.

 

Telling players not to use all the tools they have is like saying that if you can't build a house without having to resort to a hammer you're a bad builder.

 

That's not a very good analogy. It's more like saying "if you have to use the autohammer 9000 to build your house, you're a bad builder, or at least not nearly as good as you think you are."

 

EDIT- to be more on topic, I like the changes.

Edited November 24, 2014 by XanaSkullpulper