I Feel This Is The Best Time To Ask For Energy Ammo Pool.

[Deviantis]

I love the ammo pool part but the overheat mechanic is a little on the mid way for me because it's a thin line from adding to the game play or making people hate it, I.E halo did it right because they where slow firing plasma guns so you could keep from over heating the gun, but in warframe most of the energy weapons are fast, a beam or shoot one be blast so over heating could end up being a game breaker for a lot of people, if it's did right i would love to see it in the game but like i said it's a thin line.

The reduction in clip sizes should be capped at a manageable amount, but that would still pose some serious issues to weapons such as the Dera...

 

On the other hand there are mods to counter that to an extent!

 

Maybe there can be a better way to reward precision shooting?

[.Czern]

I've been waiting for it for a long time.

The overheating idea would be nice if the pool would refill on its own, so no pickups needed. Otherwise I see no reason for it's existence. But it needs some balancing, maybe reloading cancels the overheat? Replacing heat-sinks or something like that.

 

In my opinion every weapon should have it's own ammo pool. But actually for energy weapons maybe it would be better to introduce a bar-type indicator? I'm thinking about something resembling battery which empties during shooting and fills up when not.

[Deviantis]

Yes the reserve is what regenerates. The current overheat suggestion is that the magazines that you charge from the pool loses capacity if abused (non stop spraying supra for 5 reloads in a row) would temporarily reduce the magazine size by a slight amount.

[Deviantis]

Yes, I would definitely like to see this. Overheat mechanism is good.

Suggestion: Fieldron Generators in Corpus missions. This device produces a field in which energy weapons regain their ammunition. The higher the difficulty, the faster the ammo regenerates and the larger the field is. Fieldron Generators come in two different sizes, one small and one large.

You are able to create your own Fieldron Regenerator in the Foundry. These can be deployed in every mission, since the Grineer would have no need for Fieldron Generators.

-snip-

Well, how about a consumable (this is really far fetched now) fieldron...heat vent or something that reduces or eliminates overheat which basically functions as the energy version of an ammo restore.

That said I would rather not have these fancy mechanics and just have recharging ammo reserves, but nyeh balance.

P.S. not like ammo ever bothered Ampex when modded properly...

Edited November 10, 2014 by Deviantis

[RozenSeven69]

The reduction in clip sizes should be capped at a manageable amount, but that would still pose some serious issues to weapons such as the Dera...

 

On the other hand there are mods to counter that to an extent!

 

Maybe there can be a better way to reward precision shooting?

 

For stuff like how much the clip would be DE would know best how to do that.

 

but with more mods you need to put in and with a lot of people out there with there loved builds they would have to come out with energy weapon mods that have 2 mods in one like (I.E -% cool down time and other) adding mods to make overheating not as bad would make people have to redo there builds if they didn't mix damage or something in with it but we all so hit a wall with that because that would have to make the overheating be the same over all energy weapons or find a way to make the overheating not to bad from the start but thet kind of makes the mods for making overheating not so mad pointless.

 

It would be nice to see reward for precision shooting with energy weapons but that's where we hit people with low FPS on older P.C's or not to the minimum system requirements just trying to have fun with the game, it would make them feel left out and on top of that not all energy weapons are that much of a precision weapon, in one way it would be nice but like all ways not everyone is going see it as a good thing.

 

but all of this is just thinking of how it would work out in-game but knowing DE they can find a way to make it fun and work out.

Edited November 11, 2014 by RozenSeven69

[Deviantis]

Agreed, after some time thinking about it, overheat mechanic is cool but space ninja magic physics prevent overheating.

[WondahBoah]

Why not have the ammo count be a percentage, with weapons having different "drain values"? Weapons like the Opticor and Lanka would take more than 10% to fire, while sustained-fire weapons like the Supra and Dera would be decimals.

My thoughts exactly! What's more, we should factor in recharging rates and overheating. That way, we can start to actually figure out how these weapons would be feasibly balanced, what with the whole "unlimited ammo" thing. For examples we'll just play with some numbers concerning the Dera, Flux Rifle, Supra, Lanka, Dual Cestra, and Opticor.

 

To figure out what % each round of a weapon should be, we'll start with 100 (max energy) divided by the weapon's mag size:

 

Dera: 100/45 =  ~2.22%

 

Flux Rifle: 100/200 =  .5%

 

Supra: 100/90 =  ~1.11%

 

Lanka: 100/10 =  10%

 

Dual Cestra: 100/100 =  1%

 

Opticor: 100/5 =  20%

 

If we factor in these weapons recharging over time, it makes sense to have the percentages go up, so that they look more like this:

 

Dera: ~2.22 >> 2.55%

 

Flux Rifle: .5% >> .6%

 

Supra: ~1.11 >> 1.2%

 

Lanka: 10% >> 12%

 

Dual Cestra: 1% >> 1.2%

 

Opticor: 20% >> 25%

 

This means you won't get to empty up to the [previous] full clip (for example, if fully unloaded, a Dera fires off a base ~39 shots instead of 45), forcing you to conserve ammo, and time your engagements. Thankfully the weapons recharge, and those rates are based off the weapon's firing rate, as are drain rates. Overheat penalties--being unable to fire to allow weapon cooldown--are incurred when firing a weapon all the way/over 0%, and are based off reload time. Furthermore, overheating as a function replaces reloading. Drain rates (percent-per-second, or "pps") are calculated by multiplying firing rates (rounds-per-second, or "rps") by the weapons' percent-per-round values. Note, "pps" is where recharge is based from, not "rps."

 

Firing Rates / Drain rates / Reload times:

Dera: 11.3 rps / 28.8 pps / 2.37s

 

Flux Rifle: 10.0 rps / 6.0 pps / 2.0s

 

Supra: 12.5 rps / 15.0 pps / 4.2s

 

Dual Cestra: 12.5 rps / 15.0 pps / 3.5s

 

Lanka: 0.6 rps / 7.2 pps / 2.0s

 

Opticor: 0.3 rps / 7.5 pps / 2.0s

 

If we reserve ".4x" as the conversion rate from firing rate to recharge rate, we get values like this: 

 

Drain Rates / Recharge Rates 

Dera: 28.8 pps / 11.52 pps

 

Flux Rifle: 6.0 pps / 2.4 pps

 

Supra:15.0 pps / 6.0 pps

 

Dual Cestra: 15.0 pps / 6.0 pps

 

Lanka: 7.2 pps / 2.88 pps

 

Opticor: 7.5 pps / 3.0 pps

 

Likewise, "1.5x" is the conversion rate from former reload time to overheat penalty--which may need to be higher, given that you are now no longer taking time to reload every now and then. The values, including those for potential rate "1.8x", are as follows:

 

Reload Times >> Overheat Penalty >>> Steep Overheat Penalty

Dera: 2.37s >> 3.56s >>> 4.27s

 

Flux Rifle: 2.0s >> 3.0s >>> 3.6s

 

Supra: 4.2s >> 6.3s >>> 7.56s

 

Dual Cestra: 3.5s >> 5.25s >>> 6.3s

 

Lanka: 2.0s >> 3.0s >>> 3.6s

 

Opticor: 2.0s >> 3.0s >>> 3.6s

 

As for mods, Reload speed mods would reduce Overheat penalties, Magazine increase mods would increase recharge rate, Max ammo mods would reduce pps (not rps), and Firing rate mods affect rps (not pps). 

 

 

If the whole drain/firing rate thing is confusing, think about it like this:

 

Adding a Max Ammo mod would allow me to maintain the same firing rate but consume less energy (%).

Adding a firing rate mod--assuming it's a positive effect--would allow me to fire faster for the same rate of energy consumption.

Adding both--again assuming increased fire rate--would then net me a faster firing weapon for a much lower energy cost.

 

Hope this helps visualize the idea

Edited November 11, 2014 by WondahBoah

[Institute-Marksman]

Well, how about a consumable (this is really far fetched now) fieldron...heat vent or something that reduces or eliminates overheat which basically functions as the energy version of an ammo restore.

That said I would rather not have these fancy mechanics and just have recharging ammo reserves, but nyeh balance.

P.S. not like ammo ever bothered Ampex when modded properly...

I was also toying around with the idea of a consumable fieldron package of some sort. Perhaps they may be found like normal ammo, dropped by Corpus units, replacing normal ammunition.

Fieldron Rechargers, is a name. You may only carry them as equipment, and when your ammo is low, activating the recharger will consume it but your ammo will be completely restored. As the Grineer tend to utilize Corpus technology, Rechargers can also be carried by Grineer.

I am, however, still looking forward to a stationary Fieldron Generator. It is similar to how the heat generators of the new Europa Tileset work, but instead of negating shield decay, they recharge ammo. Different texture and physics, and there you go.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Institute-Marksman

[DCypherThis13]

Ok, The basic idea behind this is; energy weapons still have a "max ammo" and a magazine. The "max ammo" pool recharges over time and varies based on the weapon. Quanta may have 540 rounds, but Lanka has just 72. Am I correct in that assumption?

 

If so, I would love to see this. However, this feature would make projectile weapons useless in some cases; endless missions. Even though Gorgon and Supra have 540(+90 in the magazine) rounds to use, a skilled Supra user will out last Gorgon and never touch a single pick up. The same could possibly be said for Grakata with 810 rounds on tap(750+60).

 

The only way to negate this advantage is to limit the Supra to one spare magazine. 90+90 at full charge. The recharge would need to be about 25% of the fire rate, +pickups at normal rate, to make it a fair fight.

[Volume]

I like it.

[-Sensei-Legacy-]

i love the idea of the weapons recharging themselfs. however the reload mechanic? how shall that one work? shall it be like the energy in spare ammo restores and not the energy in the weapons so u have to reaload. like if the spare ammo draws energy from the tenno, or how shall the mechanic work if there is no use for it?

[Ragnarlee_Prime]

 

My thoughts exactly! What's more, we should factor in recharging rates and overheating. That way, we can start to actually figure out how these weapons would be feasibly balanced, what with the whole "unlimited ammo" thing. For examples we'll just play with some numbers concerning the Dera, Flux Rifle, Supra, Lanka, Dual Cestra, and Opticor.

 

To figure out what % each round of a weapon should be, we'll start with 100 (max energy) divided by the weapon's mag size:

 

Dera: 100/45 =  ~2.22%

 

Flux Rifle: 100/200 =  .5%

 

Supra: 100/90 =  ~1.11%

 

Lanka: 100/10 =  10%

 

Dual Cestra: 100/100 =  1%

 

Opticor: 100/5 =  20%

 

If we factor in these weapons recharging over time, it makes sense to have the percentages go up, so that they look more like this:

 

Dera: ~2.22 >> 2.55%

 

Flux Rifle: .5% >> .6%

 

Supra: ~1.11 >> 1.2%

 

Lanka: 10% >> 12%

 

Dual Cestra: 1% >> 1.2%

 

Opticor: 20% >> 25%

 

This means you won't get to empty up to the [previous] full clip (for example, if fully unloaded, a Dera fires off a base ~39 shots instead of 45), forcing you to conserve ammo, and time your engagements. Thankfully the weapons recharge, and those rates are based off the weapon's firing rate, as are drain rates. Overheat penalties--being unable to fire to allow weapon cooldown--are incurred when firing a weapon all the way/over 0%, and are based off reload time. Furthermore, overheating as a function replaces reloading. Drain rates (percent-per-second, or "pps") are calculated by multiplying firing rates (rounds-per-second, or "rps") by the weapons' percent-per-round values. Note, "pps" is where recharge is based from, not "rps."

 

Firing Rates / Drain rates / Reload times:

Dera: 11.3 rps / 28.8 pps / 2.37s

 

Flux Rifle: 10.0 rps / 6.0 pps / 2.0s

 

Supra: 12.5 rps / 15.0 pps / 4.2s

 

Dual Cestra: 12.5 rps / 15.0 pps / 3.5s

 

Lanka: 0.6 rps / 7.2 pps / 2.0s

 

Opticor: 0.3 rps / 7.5 pps / 2.0s

 

If we reserve ".4x" as the conversion rate from firing rate to recharge rate, we get values like this: 

 

Drain Rates / Recharge Rates 

Dera: 28.8 pps / 11.52 pps

 

Flux Rifle: 6.0 pps / 2.4 pps

 

Supra:15.0 pps / 6.0 pps

 

Dual Cestra: 15.0 pps / 6.0 pps

 

Lanka: 7.2 pps / 2.88 pps

 

Opticor: 7.5 pps / 3.0 pps

 

Likewise, "1.5x" is the conversion rate from former reload time to overheat penalty--which may need to be higher, given that you are now no longer taking time to reload every now and then. The values, including those for potential rate "1.8x", are as follows:

 

Reload Times >> Overheat Penalty >>> Steep Overheat Penalty

Dera: 2.37s >> 3.56s >>> 4.27s

 

Flux Rifle: 2.0s >> 3.0s >>> 3.6s

 

Supra: 4.2s >> 6.3s >>> 7.56s

 

Dual Cestra: 3.5s >> 5.25s >>> 6.3s

 

Lanka: 2.0s >> 3.0s >>> 3.6s

 

Opticor: 2.0s >> 3.0s >>> 3.6s

 

As for mods, Reload speed mods would reduce Overheat penalties, Magazine increase mods would increase recharge rate, Max ammo mods would reduce pps (not rps), and Firing rate mods affect rps (not pps). 

 

 

If the whole drain/firing rate thing is confusing, think about it like this:

 

Adding a Max Ammo mod would allow me to maintain the same firing rate but consume less energy (%).

Adding a firing rate mod--assuming it's a positive effect--would allow me to fire faster for the same rate of energy consumption.

Adding both--again assuming increased fire rate--would then net me a faster firing weapon for a much lower energy cost.

 

Hope this helps visualize the idea

  SO MUCH MATH, I LOVE IT!!!

[genclaymore]

I much rather it be recharging style that was mention but only if they add mods that can increase the rate it recharge, or decrease the rate it charge with a positive stat. If they do energy ammo drop then they would then need to do seperate drops for rockets, Goo and infected ammo too. But that would take too much time away from other stuff as well making ammo drops a mess, Unless it set up to only drop ammo for the weapons the client is carrying, and have each client recive a different ammo drop. SO you don't have sniper ammo laying around when you need Cells/rockets etc. Which would then be fixed by the convertion mod any way if the said person has it. I really think it should be universial ammo type, one type that refiles whateever is in your hand, or refill's both.

[Candengard]

Before considering auto-generating for energy weapons, which would present a whole new level of balance works.  I'd suggest an overall ammo mechanic change first, which I think will better serve the diversity of weaponry in the game currently and for the future.  Change ammo categories like rifle, shotgun, sniper, etc. like we have right now to just primary and secondary, the ammo amount from pickup would depend on what each client is using, and instead of the same boring ammo art right now, you can see specific ammo for whatever weapon you're using.  For example if an enemy drops a primary ammo, player A who is using Amprex will see energy cell and it replenishes the amount that's fine tuned for that weapon, and player B who is using a Penta will see a grenade pack and the amount it replenishes is also designed for it.  

 

The problem we have right now is ammo clip from drop and ammo restore give the same amount of ammo for all weapons in their assigned categories (rifle, shotgun, etc.).  This creates problem for certain weapons that guzzle ammo, and you aren't forced to make balance decision based on pre-defined restriction, such as funny balance question about which ammo type should a rocket launcher use, rifle or sniper, which also doesn't really make sense to being with.

[Nira]

The problem we have right now is ammo clip from drop and ammo restore give the same amount of ammo for all weapons in their assigned categories (rifle, shotgun, etc.).  This creates problem for certain weapons that guzzle ammo, and you aren't forced to make balance decision based on pre-defined restriction, such as funny balance question about which ammo type should a rocket launcher use, rifle or sniper, which also doesn't really make sense to being with.

 

 

Very much agree with this. Energy weapons like the Glaxion, Supra and Dual Cestra would benefit hugely from ammo pickups regenerating a percentage of the reserve pool rather than a predefined numerical value. Thinking about it, I'm quite surprised the current system has been in place for this long.

 

*EDIT* Non-energy weapons like Akzani and Grakata would do great with this idea too.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Dualice

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

[WondahBoah]

  SO MUCH MATH, I LOVE IT!!!

I try :D

Does it seem feasible/fair?

Any tweaks to make?

[Severuslanskerr]

OMG please make it simply like mass effect 1(obvious) it was great

 

think about all the unused weapons like cestra and spectra finally seeing them in action would be FUN

Edited November 21, 2014 by Severuslanskerr

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

Love this idea

[HAYABU5A]

sorry i had meant an innate overheat mechanic like the sentinel mod fired up..

where the weapon gains additional damage the longer it fires building up to the max bonus 

 

different energy weapons could have different durations and cooldowns to help balance them out similar to what the sentinel weapons have