Thoughts On How The Grineer Military Is Structured?

[FaerieBanshee]

Whilst not quite at the level of military buff, I enjoy looking into military structure and hardware and I find the Grineer to be a fairly awesome military to analyse. What spawned was a fairly interesting discussion with a friend (who IS a military buff) about how the Grineer military is structured and a few associated points (as well as a few that aren't). I'm listing some of the ideas in bullet points here because I'm interested to see what you guys think. :D

 

-The Grineer military is split into a Navy and an Army.

-The Army encompasses the Arid and Frontier troop types.

-Lotus' has a quote of 'Marines inbound'. Marines are traditionally troops assigned to the Navy.

-Captain Vor previously held the rank of Admiral. Whilst Captain is a rank present in armies and navies, Admiral is traditionally a Navy rank.

-General Sargas Ruk holds the rank of General. General is traditionally an Army Rank.

-Sargas Ruk is the boss of Saturn. Saturn is the Grineer training ground for their elite troops. Frontier Troopers spawn here. Both elite Army and elite Navy troops may receive training on Saturn.

-Ceres, which has an atmosphere in-game, does not have it's own type of special troops (e.g. Arid or Frontier) which could imply that it is under Navy jurisdiction. This would make sense as Ceres churns out the Navy's Galleons and Battleships.

-There are 2 kinds of Grineer shuttle. A green type with yellow lights and a grey type with red lights. The grey type is seen exclusively on Phobos and Earth. The grey type may be the Army's shuttle whilst the green type the Navy's shuttle.

-During Corpus invasions of Phobos (haven't seen any on Earth), Grineer 'regular' troops can be seen supporting the Arid troops. They are probably Navy marines drafted in to support the Army elements.

-Eximus units are squad leaders. This can be supported by the fact that their previous names were just 'Leader' and Grineer Commanders do not have an Eximus version as far as I can tell.

 

None of this is solid. It's all just guessing. But I was curious to see what any Warframe military buffs thought. :)

Edited November 5, 2014 by FaerieBanshee

[MaverickZero]

Interesting. Looks like Vor was a bigger fish than we thought.

 

Vor Vay Hek ordered Ruk to release the G3 unit despite Ruk strongly opposing it. Navy oversees the Army?

Edited November 5, 2014 by MaverickZero

[Morec0]

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

 

Interesting. Looks like Vor was a bigger fish than we thought.

 

Vor ordered Ruk to release the G3 unit despite Ruk strongly opposing it. Navy oversees the Army?

 

Wasn't it Hek that did that? In which case it's a political official ordering around military ones. Not uncommon.

[Noxonion]

Interesting. Looks like Vor was a bigger fish than we thought.

 

Vor ordered Ruk to release the G3 unit despite Ruk strongly opposing it. Navy oversees the Army?

I think that Vay Hek ordered them.

[unknow99]

The problem is, ingame they don't look like a very organized one.

 

Simple lancers behave the same way as elite lancers, or soldiers, or commanders. If you watch them in an unalerted state, nobody is actually in a military formation to guard something.

 

 

Can you imagine? Seeing a formation of 6 tough grineer like this ingame would be amazing!

 

Also, they don't make a salute to their superiors, and you never see a grineer give quick gesture to command the other ones near. (that's sad,because we saw some animations about this in an old stream.Where is it?)

 

They don't seem to interact like actual troops would. :( (My opinion)

[Brimir]

Vey Hek was indeed the one pulling the strings for the G3's release.

[Noxonion]

The problem is, ingame they don't look like a very organized one.

 

Simple lancers behave the same way as elite lancers, or soldiers, or commanders. If you watch them in an unalerted state, nobody is actually in a military formation to guard something.

 

 

Can you imagine? Seeing a formation of 6 tough grineer like this ingame would be amazing!

 

Also, they don't make a salute to their superiors, and you never see a grineer give quick gesture to command the other ones near. (that's sad,because we saw some animations about this in an old stream.Where is it?)

 

They don't seem to interact like actual troops would. :( (My opinion)

The interaction was a topic that DE discussed (I think), but it's not a priority now. Remember, Warframe is in beta and it has its flaws.

[MaverickZero]

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

 

 

Wasn't it Hek that did that? In which case it's a political official ordering around military ones. Not uncommon.

My bad. I guess it makes sense. Hek's court rules they are innocent and Ruk can't do anything about it.

[MaverickZero]

When grineer attack in derelicts they use their Navy troops (regular models). That might be the equivalent of the Navy SEALs. 

[unknow99]

The interaction was a topic that DE discussed (I think), but it's not a priority now. Remember, Warframe is in beta and it has its flaws.

Sure, focus and core gameplay stuff take the lead currently, but this needs to get in in the future, because after playing a few hours, you know all of the enemies behaviours. :/

 

Life 2.0 after Stealth 2.0,Parkour 2.0 & endgame.

Edited November 5, 2014 by unknow99

[FaerieBanshee]

The problem is, ingame they don't look like a very organized one.

 

Simple lancers behave the same way as elite lancers, or soldiers, or commanders. If you watch them in an unalerted state, nobody is actually in a military formation to guard something.

 

 

Can you imagine? Seeing a formation of 6 tough grineer like this ingame would be amazing!

 

Also, they don't make a salute to their superiors, and you never see a grineer give quick gesture to command the other ones near. (that's sad,because we saw some animations about this in an old stream.Where is it?)

 

They don't seem to interact like actual troops would. :( (My opinion)

I imagine Eximus units to be squad leaders (see the last bullet point in main post) and the regular troops always tend to crowd around Eximus units implying there is at least some form of organisation. It could be argued that the grunts only crowd the Eximus units to benefit from Ice Shield or Flame Blast but this cannot be the case as they still crowd around Life Steal and Energy Steal units which do not buff or protect the grunts as far as I can tell.

[vaugahn]

Just based off enemy distribution, it seems like the navy is the dominant force, with army troops reserved for occupation duty.

Contested regions always have navy troops, the only place where army (frontier, arid) troops appear is in Grineer-occupied areas.

I'm more interested in how the Corpus organize themselves. They don't seem to have dedicated organic military units.

[xethier]

You're correct in that army/navy nomenclature is differentiated on earth.

But keep in mind that those are usually relegated to specific types of combat. (land, air, sea, etc)

 

in space... things would become a bit blurred. 

 

You could take the Starship troopers concepts (the book, not the godawful movie)

 

Either way, it would be very nice for DE to actually try to setup a military structure for the Grineer and a corporate structure for the Corpus.

Beyond the aspects of lore, it might highlight some holes in the ranks that could then be filled by new units.

It could also give them a roadmap for managing different "packs" of mobs on various locations and give more of a sense of structure to the missions.

 

i.e. corpus rescue could be populated by a corpus contractor (blackwater? :P) defending that area.

grineer deception missions would be populated by grineer space marines & naval ship crew.

 

i think this would, eventually, lead to more mission diversity.

Edited November 5, 2014 by xethier

[MaverickZero]

Just based off enemy distribution, it seems like the navy is the dominant force, with army troops reserved for occupation duty.

Contested regions always have navy troops, the only place where army (frontier, arid) troops appear is in Grineer-occupied areas.

I'm more interested in how the Corpus organize themselves. They don't seem to have dedicated organic military units.

They don't really have soldiers. Armed civilians/militia and robotic drones.

[Brimir]

Structuring the Grineer military would be akin to trying to organize an army of lemmings.

 

Do you even need structure when your army is an endless army of clones?

 

Just toss a few bodies at this problem, a few bodies at that conflict over there etc etc.

[vaugahn]

They don't really have soldiers. Armed civilians/militia and robotic drones.

I'd assume they keep some trained military people. "Aggressive negotiations", or something like that. It would be shortsighted not to.

On invasion missions, there are orange-suited crewmen that come out of portals occasionally. They seem to be slightly stronger than default crewmen. My theory is that they're Corpus marines, rather than just armed noncombatants like the rest of the crewmen.

[MaverickZero]

I'd assume they keep some trained military people. "Aggressive negotiations", or something like that. It would be shortsighted not to.

On invasion missions, there are orange-suited crewmen that come out of portals occasionally. They seem to be slightly stronger than default crewmen. My theory is that they're Corpus marines, rather than just armed noncombatants like the rest of the crewmen.

I've always wondered about those guys. They can always be scanned but have no codex entry. They might be contractors considering they roll in in packs of 3 and are limited per map.

[Brimir]

I'd assume they keep some trained military people. "Aggressive negotiations", or something like that. It would be shortsighted not to.

On invasion missions, there are orange-suited crewmen that come out of portals occasionally. They seem to be slightly stronger than default crewmen. My theory is that they're Corpus marines, rather than just armed noncombatants like the rest of the crewmen.

 

The Prodmen definitely seem to be an exclusively security-based unit.

 

Unless they use their Prova's to herd MOAs or something.

[DJ_Redwire]

-During Corpus invasions of Phobos (haven't seen any on Earth), Grineer 'regular' troops can be seen supporting the Arid troops. They are probably Navy marines drafted in to support the Army elements.

Just to add on to this, the reason you dont see invasions on Earth is because of gameplay restrictions (it's the first planet so DE didn't want invasions to interfere with that) but it actually works into the lore well because you could argue that since its grineer home base their orbital defenses repel any major invasions. Just a small detail :)

[unknow99]

I imagine Eximus units to be squad leaders (see the last bullet point in main post) and the regular troops always tend to crowd around Eximus units implying there is at least some form of organisation. It could be argued that the grunts only crowd the Eximus units to benefit from Ice Shield or Flame Blast but this cannot be the case as they still crowd around Life Steal and Energy Steal units which do not buff or protect the grunts as far as I can tell.

Exactly. And commanders...They're just like the other infantry! They just have a switch teleport ability.

 

A commander means so much more than this!

 

Structuring the Grineer military would be akin to trying to organize an army of lemmings.

 

Do you even need structure when your army is an endless army of clones?

 

Just toss a few bodies at this problem, a few bodies at that conflict over there etc etc.

Sorry but I don't follow you on that point : look at the Greeks. Even in conflicts where they were outnumbered : they'd do a Phalanx formation and bam!! Waves of persians couldn't pierce their defense. Organizing your army, as a general, is vital man. Sun Tzu & Napoleon can confirm this. :p

[vaugahn]

I've always wondered about those guys. They can always be scanned but have no codex entry. They might be contractors considering they roll in in packs of 3 and are limited per map.

My theory is that they're Corpus military, guys with actual training who run as a dedicated combat unit. Given that they dress like Corpus and use all the same guns I don't think they're contractors.

The Prodmen definitely seem to be an exclusively security-based unit.

 

Unless they use their Prova's to herd MOAs or something.

Even then, Crewmen all seem like they're not actually fighters and they're just toting those weapons around for intimidation/self defense.

[FaerieBanshee]

You're correct in that army/navy nomenclature is differentiated on earth.

But keep in mind that those are usually relegated to specific types of combat. (land, air, sea, etc)

 

in space... things would become a bit blurred. 

 

You could take the Starship troopers concepts (the book, not the godawful movie)

 

Either way, it would be very nice for DE to actually try to setup a military structure for the Grineer and a corporate structure for the Corpus.

Beyond the aspects of lore, it might highlight some holes in the ranks that could then be filled by new units.

It could also give them a roadmap for managing different "packs" of mobs on various locations and give more of a sense of structure to the missions.

 

i.e. corpus rescue could be populated by a corpus contractor (blackwater? :P) defending that area.

grineer deception missions would be populated by grineer space marines & naval ship crew.

 

i think this would, eventually, lead to more mission diversity.

The way I see it, an air arm would be completely un-necessary for the Grineer as the Navy's vessels and the Army's shuttles fulfil the role. Also, there are no Grineer aircraft at the moment. XD The Navy would be more of a space Navy rather than a sea-based Navy and if the Grineer did have any water based troops, they would fall under the jurisdiction of the Army rather than the Navy. However, the upcoming water based tileset appears to be replacing Uranus' current tileset and would likely be stuffed full of regular Grineer troops, suggesting aquatic operations would also fall under the arm of the Navy. Unless the new tileset introduces a new set of Grineer variants but that's unlikely. The Army would be limited to defensive planet-side operations as evidenced by the fact that it's the regular Marines who assault and hold positions on other planets.

Edited November 5, 2014 by FaerieBanshee

[Noxonion]

Sorry but I don't follow you on that point : look at the Greeks. Even in conflicts where they were outnumbered : they'd do a Phalanx formation and bam!! Waves of persians couldn't pierce their defense. Organizing your army, as a general, is vital man. Sun Tzu & Napoleon can confirm this. :p

Well, when your enemies are supehumans with bazookas, grenade launchers and jet-powered polearms, formation 'aint gonna do much.

[xethier]

The way I see it, an air arm would be completely un-necessary for the Grineer. The Navy would be more of a space Navy rather than a sea-based Navy and if the Grineer did have any water based troops, they would fall under the jurisdiction of the Army rather than the Navy. However, the upcoming water based tileset appears to be replacing Uranus' current tileset and would likely be stuffed full of regular Grineer troops, suggesting aquatic operations would also fall under the arm of the Navy. Unless the new tileset introduces a new set of Grineer variants but that's unlikely. The Army would be limited to defensive planet-side operations as evidenced by the fact that it's the regular Marines who assault and hold positions on other planets.

 

of course an air arm is unnecessary. that was part of my point in that the way we define military ranks (here in the real world) doesn't really apply to space. -- things would be quite different as a water-born navy isn't necessary nor is an air-force.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terran_Federation_(Starship_Troopers)

 

specific excerpt that i'm referring to:

 

The Terran Federation's military appears to be divided into an Army and a Navy (that uses spacecraft instead of ships and doubles as an air force). The dozens of non-combat and support branches include units for logistics, biological/chemical weapons development, and terraforming. The "Sky Marshal" commands the entire military. To be eligible for the post of Sky Marshal, an officer must reach certain high ranks in both the Army and the Navy.

 

It seems to me that DE borrowed heavily upon Heinlein's concept of the terran federation for the idea behind the origination of the grineer, however eons of missteps has lead to the current, twisted, end-result.

 

edit, sorry for the discoloration, as always, copy/paste from any other site results in this. :(

Edited November 5, 2014 by xethier

[MaverickZero]

-During Corpus invasions of Phobos (haven't seen any on Earth), Grineer 'regular' troops can be seen supporting the Arid troops. They are probably Navy marines drafted in to support the Army elements.

Just to add on to this, the reason you dont see invasions on Earth is because of gameplay restrictions (it's the first planet so DE didn't want invasions to interfere with that) but it actually works into the lore well because you could argue that since its grineer home base their orbital defenses repel any major invasions. Just a small detail :)

But thankfully the Liset can slip through the blockade. I'm pretty sure the radio chatter has a line about detecting void energy and deploying troops. This could mean that the Navy is the one going after the tenno using their galleons to detect them. That would explain why they cover most of the system.