Warframe's Vibe : Is It Really Vanishing?[Megathread Attempt]

[MeduSalem]

Is the grim/dark mood of Warframe slowly disappearing? Is the atmosphere really following a worrying direction?

 

Yepp, it is gone. In my opinion the unique dark atmosphere of the game that has been one of the things that lured me into the game is dead ever since shortly after Gradivus Dilemma, probably with the toned down violence that came with Damage 2.0 and continued to be toned down even this year with the removal of most blood effects. As well as the brighter tilesets altogether with the removal of some of the darker tiles from existing tilesets.

 

The artstyle is basically the same, but the grim/dark mood/atmosphere is completely gone, which really saddens me. I miss the old atmosphere so much it nearly makes me want to cry about how shallow it has become over time.

 

Warframe just got too mainstream in the overall appeal the Devs try to achieve. It just blends in with any other crappy wannabe-post-apocalyptic shooter that's out there. ^^

 

Too many compromises have been made lately to fit something into the game that doesn't fit the theme of Warframe at all but still got added because it is popular/trendy in other games/movies/series/<younameit>.

 

As I wrote... the fine&pretty artstyle is there... but the atmosphere is not. The game has a beautiful facade but is completely lacking a soul.

 

At least I'm looking forward to the new Doom iteration because Warframe doesn't do the creepy/grim/dark thing for me anymore. Warframe has sacrificed too much of its atmosphere for mass appeal.

Edited November 12, 2014 by MeduSalem

[vaugahn]

-snip-

That sounds like more a case of general veteran malaise rather than some magical shift in atmosphere.

[Dead_Rabbits]

I liked the grineer better before DE gave them their own spoken language. Also when corpus tilesets had an announcer stating that "this vessel has been taken over by a hostile force".

[(PSN)TonberryFeye]

I'm on both sides of the fence at once.

 

On the one hand, I much prefer the visual styles of Excalibur, Loki, etc to the modern frames - I like their simplicity, and the semi-uniform nature to them (Nix and Excalibur are amazingly similar). They all feel like they are part of the same faction, and they fit nicely into the grimdark nature of Warframe, which I recall from when I first dabbled with the PC version (damn you, DE! Why did you take Loki out of the starting frame lineup!?).

 

On the other hand, I have played other grimdark games. Like 40K; the game that INVENTED grimdark. And I played Harlequins. Suffice to say, Mirage is my second Warframe.

 

And Mirage can be Grimdark. Remember her backstory; she was alone, outnumbered and facing imminent destruction at the hands of the Infested. And she laughed. She laughed as she tore into them. She laughed as the Lotus begged her to flee. She laughed as the Infested tore her limb from limb. She is a bright, colourful dancer who slices throats, pierces hearts and burns people to ash with prismic balls of laser light. She is the clown in the aspect of the child's nightmare; the thing of light and laughter that leaves you screaming for your mother. She is the celebration of death; where Nekros embodies the horror of the dead being turned against us, Mirage finds joy in the slaughter. She dances amidst the corpses, and sings songs as she makes more. Or perhaps her gaudy suit is merely camouflage; she laughs because the alternative is to weep. She dances so her legs cannot run. She sees the horrors of war and death, and all she can do is make a mockery of them, as they make a mockery of us all.

 

So can Hydroid. Oh hell, Hydroid can be so very, very grimdark! His powers involve DROWNING YOU TO DEATH in a puddle of water an inch deep! He is a seriously messed up Warframe; you just have to look beyond the trivial surface level of "water theme = pirate lol."

[MeduSalem]

That sounds like more a case of general veteran malaise rather than some magical shift in atmosphere.

 

Might look like that for you but actually there are following things that somehow kill the "dark mood" (not to be confused with play mood because that's a different story) for me:

 

- They cut out most of the violence with introduction of Damage 2.0, especially guesome death animations.

- They cut out most of the blood effects, especially decals of blood on the floor and walls for "performance reasons" and never added them back.

- They removed most of the darker tiles, especially the ones on the Grineer Asteroid, but also on various other tilesets

- They brightened up existing tilesets over time so actually we are nearly never using our flashlights anymore.

- Newer tilesets are much brighter by default already, some of them exploding from bloom and stuff like that even in rooms without any significant lightsource which sometimes puts even the Void to a shame. Yeah, I'm a sucker for bloom, but if there's no valid lightsource I don't understand why everything is still so shiny.

- The toned down verbal language/slang used in insults and during event dialog as well as other cinematics.

- The overall story arc of events being not as dark anymore but rather the same Fomorian thing repeated over but with no real consequences on the solar system anyways

 

But there are also other things that contribute to the feeling the "dark times" of Warframe are no more, like:

 

- Kubrows... well I'm honest. I can't stand the thought that Tenno are bloody killers and cuddly petowners at the same time. Especially since we are slaughtering our pet's parents and masses of other wild Kubrows in the chase for eggs/mods in the first place. Somehow a ridiculous paradox for me. Still blows my mind.

- Ordis... While I like him somehow I can't help but feel that this is too much comedic relief in a game that started out pretty serious.

- Hydroid/Zephyr being completely overdesigned in their appearance... a little bit too busy to be taken seriously.

- Mirage... while she came back to a less busy design the abilities are the problem here: throwing around Confetti and having a discoball. That's just over the top.

- Limbo... the magician. The design... just nah. Doesn't do it for me. xD His abilities aren't too bad though. ^^

 

 

There are some more things too that somehow feel awkward but I think you get the idea even without listing every single piece of content where they made an approach towards more mass appeal or other... questionable things.

 

Actually I really liked the comeback of the Infested to the starchart and their new tileset... and that's one thing that gives me hope for the future.

 

So don't understand me wrong... I still play Warframe... more or less often... and also I played with most of the above mentioned things I'm not really fond of........ BUT it's not the same overall "lone Tenno at the brink of extinction lurking in dark infested spaceship while seeking for the ultimate truth of our existence"-feeling that it had past year.

Edited November 12, 2014 by MeduSalem

[vaugahn]

Can't quote all of a sudden for some reason D:

Anyways, most of those effects are still there. Play solo and the blood decals are everywhere, turn your settings up and the game is as dark as it ever was, stuff like that. The main changes there are that those effects are more divided up between the various settings now.

I think it's important to separate "darkness" into two categories: aesthetic darkness, and story darkness.

Aesthetic darkness is easy to measure, it's basically how spooky (or whatever you want to call it) our set pieces are. While there's been no change in lighting, new set pieces tend to be larger and have more moving pieces. I'd say it's a pretty clear-cut case of spectacle creep. Comparing a Grineer asteroid tile to a Grineer shipyard tile is the best example of this, while the mood remains the same, the shipyards have open vistas and active assembly lines, more active elements that the earlier tilesets don't have. In a way, this could contribute to the feeling of a tone shift; newer tilsets feel "alive", while the older ones feel somewhat solemn and abandoned. One thing to keep in mind here is that the more times you see something, the less spooky it is. Veterans will obviously feel more comfortable than newbies across the board.

Story darkness is somewhat more subjective. It's hard to accurately measure how dark a story is. However, if we take into account all the classic "dark" elements, then the story has actually gotten darker. The cold war between the various factions is slowly turning hot, splinter groups with various agendas now operate in the shadows, it's been revealed that the Grineer work slaves to death to build bases and ships, and the Tenno are slowly being pushed back.

So, I do understand where people are coming from when they claim the game isn't dark anymore. However, I believe those claims stem from a veteran familiarity with environments, and dissatisfaction with game mechanics tinging impressions of the rest of the game.

[DSMK2]

Story darkness is somewhat more subjective. It's hard to accurately measure how dark a story is. However, if we take into account all the classic "dark" elements, then the story has actually gotten darker. The cold war between the various factions is slowly turning hot, splinter groups with various agendas now operate in the shadows, it's been revealed that the Grineer work slaves to death to build bases and ships, and the Tenno are slowly being pushed back.

 

And I assume the various factions within the Origin system will be caught off guard when factions and things beyond the system come in. It's gonna happen one day...

 

But with Warframe's vibe, it's deviated away from the original feel because the universe got expanded; not everywhere will have that dark, atmospheric, secluded feel... Not every Tenno is an edgy Tenno. I think the problem stems from DE forcing players into a universal story, and we don't have control over it (dunking players into a ship with Ordis).

[Nerevar22g]

Warframe Vibe started to disappear when they started making pirate, clown and butler frames....

[vaugahn]

And I assume the various factions within the Origin system will be caught off guard when factions and things beyond the system come in. It's gonna happen one day...

 

But with Warframe's vibe, it's deviated away from the original feel because the universe got expanded; not everywhere will have that dark, atmospheric, secluded feel... Not every Tenno is an edgy Tenno. I think the problem stems from DE forcing players into a universal story, and we don't have control over it (dunking players into a ship with Ordis).

I don't think darkness and scale are mutually exclusive.

I mean, I used to play 40k. That setting is about as expansive and universal as it gets, and it's renowned for extreme darkness.

Stories on a larger scale can be just as dark as small-scale ones, if not worse.

[vaugahn]

So, an interesting development. OP, you might be interested to hear about this. The new questline has you investigating an abandoned Grineer ship, and it is nicely atmospheric inside.

 

 

 

 

[Landwalrus]

Hello Tenno,

 

This is another loong subject people, and especially veterans, are arguing about.

 

Intro

 

If you just began playing(or didn't watch any old footage of the game yet), you might not know what it really means.

 

I am referring to this :

 

 

*olds folks get surrounded with nostalgia*

 

 

All the components are here :

Excalibro, our poster boy, in a kneel position (or to be more accurate, in a Seiza position), in a very dark room, meditating on the wrath he'll soon unleash upon his greedy grineer opponents...

 

(I really like the detail of that glowing, it now seems...familiar. :) )

 

Another one :

 

 

The game evolved since, for the better & the worse (better > worse) but a common complaint was born with the arrival of U13...In fact, since the arrival of some new recruits.

 

New frames tend to have received some miscellaneous themes/appearances for a moment, more & more :

 

"A bird frame? Well,that's something different."

"A paladin? He's neare to a goat/deerframe to me..."

"Woah, not too much anime-gundam-weeaboo stuff here, please.Those Archwings leave me skeptical."

"A pirate & a jester? What's goin' on D.E.?"

"Oh now we're getting Houdini and staches. What the Hek?!"

 

"Aren't we supposed to be space ninjas?!" vs "We're just post-apocalyptic mercenaries." (I won't get too deep with this in this thread, but it's also related)

 

Main question

 

New tilesets & environments in general are far brighter than before :

 

 

 

And newcomers such as :

Limbo, with his hat and his overall magician look,

Hydroid, Sparrow-Cthulu,

Mirage, aka Harlequin,

Oberon,bananaframe,

 

were not seriously taken as members of the tenno upon release. Add to this the fact that separated body parts were toned down when Damage 2.0 & Melee 2.0 came, and a lot of 1-year players fall into confusion.

 

Is the grim/dark mood of Warframe slowly disappearing? Is the atmosphere really following a worrying direction?

Yes. It is gone. It has been gone for a while now.

[unknow99]

So, an interesting development. OP, you might be interested to hear about this. The new questline has you investigating an abandoned Grineer ship, and it is nicely atmospheric inside.

 

 

 

 

Oooh Great!!!! Maybe that means that topic isn't gone unnoticed... Thanks for the info vaug, I'll try this quest a.s.a.p.!

 

 

(2600th post)

Edited November 13, 2014 by unknow99

[vaugahn]

Oooh Great!!!! Maybe that means that topic isn't gone unnoticed... Thanks for the info vaug, I'll try this quest a.s.a.p.!

 

(2600th post)

 

Let me know what you think!

 

And congrats on the round number.

[MrBitey]

Warframe doesn't have lore.

 

The conjecture you create to make sense out of nonsense is not lore.

 

Lore is painstakingly crafted by a world builder to make sense out of what by default makes no sense, and as a result create something with soul.

 

Making up random S#&amp;&#036; as to why a frame with a top hat makes sense to nobody but yourself isn't lore. It's conjecture.

 

Warframe doesn't have lore.

[unknow99]

Let me know what you think!

 

And congrats on the round number.

Woops, didn't see this earlier, sorry... :/

 

My feedback of Once Awake : "Gr8 m8 I r8 8/8".

 

This...This is the atmosphere we seemed to have lost! Thanks devs!(I fear the day we'll be able to redo quests : I won't stop doing this one, if no other darker sets is added)

 

Edited November 30, 2014 by unknow99

[vaugahn]

This...This is the atmosphere we seemed to have lost! Thanks devs!(I fear the day we'll be able to redo quests : I won't stop doing this one, if no other darker sets is added)

 

Well, I don't think we ever really lost it. That's somewhat subjective though. But now, I pose you this question: how dark is too dark?

 

Here are some screens from the Mutalist Incursion missions -

 

 

 

 

One of those has an enemy hiding in it. There were some rooms, especially on the Grineer asteroid, that were so dark you could barely see what you were doing. And that's before the Swarm MOA blinds you even further. Darkening the tilesets is all well and good, but we don't want it to impact gameplay. 

[unknow99]

Well, I don't think we ever really lost it. That's somewhat subjective though. But now, I pose you this question: how dark is too dark?

 

Here are some screens from the Mutalist Incursion missions -

 

 

 

 

One of those has an enemy hiding in it. There were some rooms, especially on the Grineer asteroid, that were so dark you could barely see what you were doing. And that's before the Swarm MOA blinds you even further. Darkening the tilesets is all well and good, but we don't want it to impact gameplay. 

I see what you mean... (the enemy is in the first pic! Or...The third, it's hard to guess...)

 

Maybe the thing that bugs us the most is the default contrast.

 

Default contrast :

 

 

However, if I play with the settings enough, I can approach this :

 

[TrashSpider]

All I have to say is

 

 

Vetarans don't see that dark and gritty vibe that much ...because they've gotten used to it, like myself, enemies and maps are pretictable  so there's no real element of suprise , nothing to fear.

 

Nowadays I just walk around with y excal feeling extremely superior when starting a mission

Pretty much this^ I mean overtime you'll be amazed but then it's just another kill that it.

 

Although for me, I kinda liked it better when Warframe was more simple back then. 

[vaugahn]

I see what you mean... (the enemy is in the first pic! Or...The third, it's hard to guess...)

 

Maybe the thing that bugs us the most is the default contrast.

 

It's actually in the second, there's a tar MOA hiding in the back under the stairs. Scared the crap out of me, I thought it spawned out of nowhere XD

 

On the contrast thing, that's also a side effect of new lighting and textures. The liset is lit by fluorescent lights, which produce that sharp and contrasty look. Grineer ships are lit by a warmer light, which looks different depending on the filter. Comparing those two side-by-side, even with the same contrast settings, will get very different looks. 

 

I'm beginning to think we're playing with very different graphics settings/hardware as well, because I haven't touched my contrast and Grineer ships still look like that. 

[unknow99]

So after 8 pages of discussion, what can we say about good stuff that has been lost (besides Grineer sawmen & enemies speaking english with their walkie talkie)?

 

I didn't include charge attacks because they didn't completely disappeared : Glaive/Kestrel/Halikar & most recently Redeemer still got it.(it's just inherent to a few weapons now :/ )

[Phyrosite]

I feel different about warframe now than when i first started playing about a year or so ago, but i still love it a lot, i still get the space ninja vibe even though a lot of things stray from that sort of theme.

[vaugahn]

So after 8 pages of discussion, what can we say about good stuff that has been lost (besides Grineer sawmen & enemies speaking english with their walkie talkie)?

 

Honestly, other than assets that have been straight-up patched out (a few old rooms, some old Corpus textures) I don't think we've lost much. There's been some story evolution (go look at the original lore on the DE website), but I think the game is still true to the original concept.

[unknow99]

[Oriviagene]

All I have to say is

 

Nowadays I just walk around with my excal feeling extremely superior when starting a mission

^this

 i have to admit,first time starting new infested tileset on eris i was so scared coz the BGM and the environment blend very well,giving terrifying and scary aura,but now it feels like nothing

Edited December 18, 2014 by Godhands

[CrazyCatLad]

Killing Floor use to freak me out if I was running away from a horde of ZEDS.  Now I charge into them screaming "FOR THE MOTHERLAND!"

 

Chargers in Warframe used to get me nervous because zergling. Now I Quanta them without a second thought.

 

 

I do miss some of the old stuff from Closed Beta <3