The Solution For The Arcane Helmets

[Esleyer]

When helmets were released I thought they're pretty a cool idea. It gave your warframe a little more personality, as well as different stats.

 

Vanguard Rhino is faster, but a bit weaker, Thrak Rhino is tougher, but a bit slower.

Helmets made possible to customize your warframe even further, according to the personal preference, or the mission's needs.

 

However not everyone liked this, because people felt "forced" to use only the "best" helmet, even if they didn't like it's looks.

And the opposite - people couldn't use the helmet that looked cool for them, because the stats were bad for them.

 

...and we arrived to the Arcane Helmets.

New players can't get them, and Nova is the last one to have it. Which is a shame, for both.

 

But there is a way!

 

I'll put it down simple:

To make bonuses from helmets not being tied to a certain helmet by turning them into Mods.

 

The helmets themselves remain purely cosmetic + and the Arcane helmets become the regular ones.

Those who owned the Arcane helm will get the corresponding Mod automatically. The rest of the players have to get them as rare drops from mobs/bosses.

 

Warframes will get another slot like Aura, for those new ex-helmet stat Mods.

 

It's a win-win situation:

Arcane helmet users don't lose anything.

New players are given the opportunity to get the Helm stats

Helmets remain purely cosmetic and independent of stats.

Warframes past Nova will get their Mods too, giving both the new players and veterans something to do/the reason to visit some bosses again.

 

And everyone's happy ;]

[Zerrien]

I agree.

 

Unfortunately, there are going to be some users who'll chime in that it's unfair to players who purchased their helmets with Platinum.

[--FORMA--]

This has been suggested multiple times, DE doesn't seem to listen.

 

I wish they did.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Half-Life-3-Comfirmed

[Imaru]

If Arcane helmet stats are given as mods, no one would use them because they would take up a space that could (and likely would [or even should]) be taken up by a mod that vastly outclasses it. If there was a helmet that boosts power duration at the cost of health (IDK if this exists, just an example), why would you use that mod (+15% power duration, -5% health) when you can use Narrow Minded, Constitution, and/or Continuity. It doesn't make sense. 

[Jinryusai]

If Arcane helmet stats are given as mods, no one would use them because they would take up a space that could (and likely would [or even should]) be taken up by a mod that vastly outclasses it. If there was a helmet that boosts power duration at the cost of health (IDK if this exists, just an example), why would you use that mod (+15% power duration, -5% health) when you can use Narrow Minded, Constitution, and/or Continuity. It doesn't make sense. 

 

 

Warframes will get another slot like Aura, for those new ex-helmet stat Mods.

[Esleyer]

Edit: What he said ^

Edited November 8, 2014 by Esleyer

[Marthrym]

We just need a tool to separate stats from helmets, keep stats tied to their respective frames, and a "slot" on helmets for them. That way people who have the arcane helmets can choose to use the thingy to separate stats if they want, the trading value of said arcane helmets remains unchanged, and we can finally use any helmet with the stats. Also Prime frames would benefit greatly from this, on an aesthetic standpoint.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Marthrym

[Jinryusai]

Edit: What he said ^

I said nothing...

[Gizogin]

If Arcane helmet stats are given as mods, no one would use them because they would take up a space that could (and likely would [or even should]) be taken up by a mod that vastly outclasses it. If there was a helmet that boosts power duration at the cost of health (IDK if this exists, just an example), why would you use that mod (+15% power duration, -5% health) when you can use Narrow Minded, Constitution, and/or Continuity. It doesn't make sense. 

 

Then make the mods better.  In fact, why not have a look at all the "non-essential" mods, to see which ones are too weak to compete for slots?  Maglev, Quick Rest, Marathon, Diamond Skin, Antitoxin, Intruder (which has actually become even less useful now that Grineer consoles don't have time limits), I could go on.

 

 

 

Warframes will get another slot like Aura, for those new ex-helmet stat Mods.

 

This is exactly the problem arcane helmets had: a way to modify stats independent of mod space.  THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF MODS!  Mods are supposed to be a tradeoff; you can't and shouldn't have the ability to gain every benefit.  

 

If you absolutely cannot live without the bonuses from a given helmet, then there's an argument to be had for making them into new augment mods.  If they're still not worth the space, then you obviously didn't really need them anyway.  Heck, if you add them as augments, then you can rank them up and make them better!

[ranks21]

why?

[Jinryusai]

Then make the mods better.  In fact, why not have a look at all the "non-essential" mods, to see which ones are too weak to compete for slots?  Maglev, Quick Rest, Marathon, Diamond Skin, Antitoxin, Intruder (which has actually become even less useful now that Grineer consoles don't have time limits), I could go on.

 

 

 

This is exactly the problem arcane helmets had: a way to modify stats independent of mod space.  THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF MODS!  Mods are supposed to be a tradeoff; you can't and shouldn't have the ability to gain every benefit.  

 

If you absolutely cannot live without the bonuses from a given helmet, then there's an argument to be had for making them into new augment mods.  If they're still not worth the space, then you obviously didn't really need them anyway.  Heck, if you add them as augments, then you can rank them up and make them better!

Calm your nerves now, gal. it's only a tiny bonus, no need to get worked up over it. It won't be game breaking.

[Gizogin]

Calm your nerves now, gal. it's only a tiny bonus, no need to get worked up over it. It won't be game breaking.

 

Then clearly you can live without it.  Warframe suffers from a massive gap between "essential" and "useless" mods, making mod loadouts extremely homogeneous.  We need better mod balance, not a new way to add more "required" mods.

 

I am not opposed to bringing back the old bonuses, but it should be done through the existing mod system if it is not to create more problems than it solves.

[castem]

Warframes will get another slot like Aura, for those new ex-helmet stat Mods.

 

It's a win-win situation:

Arcane helmet users don't lose anything.

New players are given the opportunity to get the Helm stats

Helmets remain purely cosmetic and independent of stats.

Warframes past Nova will get their Mods too, giving both the new players and veterans something to do/the reason to visit some bosses again.

 

I absolutely love this idea.

 

Hopefully DE does too.

[quietcanary]

So many people actin like they read but they don't even read bro.

 

They keep thinking its gonna take up a mod slot but he didn't say that lol

 

They be like helmets are repetitive with mods but that's like saying chocolate syrup on your sundae takes away from the icecream.

 

They be like toss the stats because they OP and I cant get them and that's like f*** you old players.

 

DE was like lock stat helmets but don't remove them and that's like f*** you new players.

 

The only idea that doesn't screw someone is bringing them back, making them more flexible(switch able/idk) and then have DE up there balance skillz (they try ik but common I could fix half of the mistakes Example: Intruder instantly unlocks consoles and switches doors and turrets in your favor cause I had this idea before mirage and its not illegal :P) 

 

Maybe give each cosmetic helmet a polarity and have the mods free float.

 

Also "No" and "DE has made up their mind" are not answers. They are excuses for being publicly stupid.

 

Tldr; if you disagree and don't have a good reason you're stupid/ maybe the helms should have polarities so the choice of helm can matter a teensy bit? Also ranting about other threads like this one and the discussion in general.

Edited November 8, 2014 by quietcanary

[Gizogin]

They keep thinking its gonna take up a mod slot but he didn't say that lol

 

They be like helmets are repetitive with mods but that's like saying chocolate syrup on your sundae takes away from the icecream.

 

They be like toss the stats because they OP and I cant get them and that's like f*** you old players.

 

DE was like lock stat helmets but don't remove them and that's like f*** you new players.

 

In point of fact, my complaint is that the arcane bonuses don't take up mod slots.

 

I have nearly all of the arcane helmets.  I would be ecstatic if they were all forcibly reduced to purely cosmetic items.  I'm not going to use the conversion BPs because I like the bonuses they give, and that's exactly the problem.

[quietcanary]

So you're mad that people don't just decide to eat either the chocolate syrup  OR the icecream while also hating chocolate syrup, and eating both the chocolate syrup AND icecream anyway(possibly because you consider yourself forced to eat chocolate syrup?). Rethink your thoughts then come back l8r.

Edited November 8, 2014 by quietcanary

[shockwave42]

Solution: more tedious grinding!

[AandOE]

Syndicates can give these, yeah? XD [Requires level 4 rep]

[quietcanary]

Wait what? Bro leave the forums you're drunk.

[Jinryusai]

In point of fact, my complaint is that the arcane bonuses don't take up mod slots.

 

I have nearly all of the arcane helmets.  I would be ecstatic if they were all forcibly reduced to purely cosmetic items.  I'm not going to use the conversion BPs because I like the bonuses they give, and that's exactly the problem.

Perhaps you have some kind of syndrome or some condition that makes you feel this strongly about this. You are the only one I see that is vehemently against this and would absolutely love(as an Arcane collector) to get "nerfed" or have Arcaneness removed for this.

 

If this slot was tied to Mastery Rank, would you feel better?

 

What if you had to gather materials to add a slot from the void including Argon Crystals?

 

Perhaps you should think of other ways for his idea to work(AND NOT JUST STARE AT THE TWO EXAMPLES ABOVE).

[Gizogin]

Perhaps you have some kind of syndrome or some condition that makes you feel this strongly about this. You are the only one I see that is vehemently against this and would absolutely love(as an Arcane collector) to get "nerfed" or have Arcaneness removed for this.

 

If this slot was tied to Mastery Rank, would you feel better?

 

What if you had to gather materials to add a slot from the void including Argon Crystals?

 

Perhaps you should think of other ways for his idea to work(AND NOT JUST STARE AT THE TWO EXAMPLES ABOVE).

 

I am sorry for getting hostile.  I see this topic pop up a lot, and just when I think it's finally disappeared, a new thread appears.  I swear I've seen another thread just today with the same premise, though I can't seem to find it anymore.  It's a topic I do feel strongly about, and that frustration shows.  For that, I apologize; emotional outbursts are rarely helpful.

 

Your other suggestions actually have some merit.  I'm not sure I like the idea of being able to add extra mod slots, but tying them to Mastery Rank might be an idea.  On the other hand, there's already a pretty big gap (real or imagined) between experienced players and newbies, and giving higher-level players even more power might just be asking for trouble.  It seems like something that would be very hard to get right.

 

As a final point, I did actually suggest a way to bring back the old arcane bonuses, with an improvement.

 

If you absolutely cannot live without the bonuses from a given helmet, then there's an argument to be had for making them into new augment mods.  If they're still not worth the space, then you obviously didn't really need them anyway.  Heck, if you add them as augments, then you can rank them up and make them better!

 

It was right at the end of a pretty heated post, in fairness.  Ultimately, my issue is that adding bonuses that are separate from the existing mod system weakens that system.  Warframe mods already have enough problems with slot competition and useless mods, but it has too much potential for me to want to see it abandoned or hurt.

[AM-Bunny]

I have nearly all of the arcane helmets.  I would be ecstatic if they were all forcibly reduced to purely cosmetic items.  I'm not going to use the conversion BPs because I like the bonuses they give, and that's exactly the problem.

 

I agree. Arcane Helmets clashed with DE's vision of "cosmetic items should be cosmetic" and the devs clearly wanted them removed from the game. The obvious solution is to simply remove them, but they feared the pitiful mewling of players who were "robbed".

 

Consequentially, they implemented a half-assed solution that satisfied nobody. Old players who have the helm are still stuck in the "I can't use the helmet I like" mentality, and New players who don't have them feel cheated.

 

I really wish they would've gone all the way and just removed the stats. Sure, some people might be unhappy, but some people might need to get over it and realize it was better for the long-term health of the game. I'm somewhat jealous of XBone players who won't have to deal with this.

[Jinryusai]

I am sorry for getting hostile.  I see this topic pop up a lot, and just when I think it's finally disappeared, a new thread appears.  I swear I've seen another thread just today with the same premise, though I can't seem to find it anymore.  It's a topic I do feel strongly about, and that frustration shows.  For that, I apologize; emotional outbursts are rarely helpful.

 

Your other suggestions actually have some merit.  I'm not sure I like the idea of being able to add extra mod slots, but tying them to Mastery Rank might be an idea.  On the other hand, there's already a pretty big gap (real or imagined) between experienced players and newbies, and giving higher-level players even more power might just be asking for trouble.  It seems like something that would be very hard to get right.

 

As a final point, I did actually suggest a way to bring back the old arcane bonuses, with an improvement.

 

 

It was right at the end of a pretty heated post, in fairness.  Ultimately, my issue is that adding bonuses that are separate from the existing mod system weakens that system.  Warframe mods already have enough problems with slot competition and useless mods, but it has too much potential for me to want to see it abandoned or hurt.

Or you can combine both suggestions via quest(That involves the void and gathering materials) that unlocks via mastery...

 

And/or perhaps via all syndicates.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Jinryusai

[quietcanary]

the funny thing is  everyone would have been just happy if they had just released the non arcane blueprints without locking them. People who say "should have removed them and made the old players deal with it" make me laugh. Right now the tables are flipped but I feel bad for you guys who don't have the helmet so I post in these threads but apparently people like you would love to deprive me of my hard earned helmets for "the health of the game'. I think its just fine to have cosmetic items give stats since its such a minor sin compared to none cosmetic exclusives anyway. Im all for fighting for the people who don't have these except if you're gonna let your butthurt mess up my good thing.