Fighting Stalker Is A Joke (My Feedback On Stalker)

[Zareek]

I have always said that I like a challenge, and I want harder content in warframe. Everytime people has shouted "nerf stalker" in the past, I was always the first to say HELL NO. Well, that has changed... Kind of.

 

I was just wrecked in about 4 seconds by Stalker, when he locked me into an elevator lobby alone (I love the new lockdown feature). I had my trusty newly 5 forma'd Tiberon with me, max redirection and vigor on my Ash. First thing that went into my mind was (Bladestorm him), but that would be boring, so I wanted to actually "FIGHT" him. That was a mistake. I ran around the crates, only to have him follow me with a speed that exceeded mine by A LOT. He shot me in the neck with his despair, and everytime I made a turn around the crate, he would be there with me. I couldn't break his fire for even a nano second. And that made me realize something.

 

First I would like to make one thing clear. Killing stalker, can be easy. But it can also be impossible. It depends on a lot of things like: Location, situation, warframe, weapons, etc. Having the right warframe, the right weapon, and you can kill him before he even spawns. And that is where I draw the line.

 

Why the hell, does it have to be like this? You either kill him before he can open his eyes, or he will kill you? He does a TON of damage, he hits nearly 100% of the time, meaning avoiding his arrows or despair is nearly impossible, and he moves in an insane speed. Having a few of those would be okay, but every possible strategy is invalid. You can't run around to take cover, dodge his arrows, kite him around and come up with a smart way to take him down, its either DIE OR BE KILLED, the first few seconds after he spawns if he even makes it that far.

 

I want to be able to actually fight Stalker. I want to be able to die if I don't think fast, but the way it is right now, it's just a joke. I would really like to see a stalker remake that would leave stalker a difficult enemy to kill, but also make it possible to kill him without 1 hitting him 0,00005 second after he spawns.

 

Rant over, let me know what you think.

 

 

[Hory94]

I think the way we fight stalker fits this game.This is actulay similar to how samurai fights looked like-quick and brutal, finished in couple of swings.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Hory94

[Renegade343]

I think the way we fight stalker fits this game.This is actulay similar to how samurai fights looked like-quick and brutal, finihhed in couple of swings.

Actually, it can be dragged out now, with Stalker now having the aim of a shaky elderly trying to throw darts at the general area of the dart board. 

[Zareek]

Actually, it can be dragged out now, with Stalker now having the aim of a shaky elderly trying to throw darts at the general area of the dart board. 

I was running around a lot, jumping and sliding. He hit me with every single Despair kunai.

[Renegade343]

I was running around a lot, jumping and sliding. He hit me with every single Despair kunai.

Tell that to my Stalker fight.

 

His Dread arrows are missing me left and right (and do not even talk about his Despair kunais). 

[trieuazn0]

dose that mean you want somthing like Currputed Vor?

 

just like a billion health that dose no damage?

[Zareek]

Tell that to my Stalker fight.

 

His Dread arrows are missing me left and right (and do not even talk about his Despair kunais). 

Sounds odd. I've encountered him many times, and I have always ahd the fortunate experience to get hit by 99% of all his projectiles. Regardless, I stick to my idea that he needs a rework so he can be fought properly.

 

 

dose that mean you want somthing like Currputed Vor?

 

just like a billion health that dose no damage?

No.

 

Although, I have always thought that the ratio between health and damage needs to be adjusted. I don't like massive damage bosses with no health. I would much more prefer a boss with less damage, high health, but still hard to kill due to the bosses mechanics. So I'm not talking about a bullet sponge, rather a boss that takes more than 2 seconds to kill, or for him to kill you in 2 seconds.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Zareek

[Xriborg]

The Stalker is a microcosm of bad boss design.

 

1) He cheats. Nullifying nearly all powers, he eliminates your abilities from the game. Since Warframes are often balanced around their powers, quite a number of Warframes are completely screwed over by this. Since the stalker attacks you at random times, there's no way to plan ahead for this unless you just don't play many of the power-based frames.

 

2) What Zareek said. Either you kill him immediately or he kills you. This leaves no time to develop any sort of meaningful or unique strategies against him. You just shoot his &#! like any other enemy you encounter. I understand the need to give him an assassin feel, but you can do that without making the entire fight a game of one-shot, one-kill.

[trieuazn0]

The Stalker is a microcosm of bad boss design.

 

1) He cheats. Nullifying nearly all powers, he eliminates your abilities from the game. Since Warframes are often balanced around their powers, quite a number of Warframes are completely screwed over by this. Since the stalker attacks you at random times, there's no way to plan ahead for this unless you just don't play many of the power-based frames.

 

2) What Zareek said. Either you kill him immediately or he kills you. This leaves no time to develop any sort of meaningful or unique strategies against him. You just shoot his @$$ like any other enemy you encounter. I understand the need to give him an assassin feel, but you can do that without making the entire fight a game of one-shot, one-kill.

1:But his not a boss. .. his an assassin, basicly he was made, to put the tenno in their place 

 

2: he only has one offencive abillity and two deffencive abilitys

-slash and dash which can easly be dodged by walking to the side

-absorb, which can be countered  by not attacking him or by walking away

-and a skill disable, which has a casting animation

 

which pritty much puts it, a even fight, where the fight ends up only with the players skills with their weapon, and how stress a player is under (to shoot the absorb or not to shoot)

[Zareek]

1:But his not a boss. .. his an assassin, basicly he was made, to put the tenno in their place 

 

2: he only has one offencive abillity and two deffencive abilitys

-slash and dash which can easly be dodged by walking to the side

-absorb, which can be countered  by not attacking him or by walking away

-and a skill disable, which has a casting animation

 

which pritty much puts it, a even fight, where the fight ends up only with the players skills with their weapon, and how stress a player is under (to shoot the absorb or not to shoot)

Him being an assassin is irrelevant to my statement. He needs to be powerful and be able to catch us off guard of course, but you can't even slide to cover, and peak out for a second to shoot him, without getting barraged in arrows into the eye balls with 200% accuracy. (Exaggerating of course).

 

Fighting him needs to be a bit more fair, and have some depth. Right now, Stalker is poorly designed. They just gave him insane dmg, insane powers, there good luck, done. It feels like a lazy piece of work if I were to put in bluntly.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Zareek

[DamnedNOOB]

my last stalker fight in a solo run:

He: Dread, missed

Me: Opticor - onehitkill

g.g.

[trieuazn0]

Him being an assassin is irrelevant to my statement. He needs to be powerful and be able to catch us off guard of course, but you can't even slide to cover, and peak out for a second to shoot him, without getting barraged in arrows into the eye balls with 200% accuracy. (Exaggerating of course).

 

Fighting him needs to be a bit more fair, and have some depth. Right now, Stalker is poorly designed. They just gave him insane dmg, insane powers, there good luck, done. It feels like a lazy piece of work if I were to put in bluntly.

i understand what you want, i just dont understand how it would work, like my first post, "do you want somthing like currupted Vor, where the stalker just has 10k health but only dose 50 damage"

 

the only thing i can see in the orginal post is the "Stalker becomes a kill, or be killed situation"

 

-the Harvester shoots a orb like thing, which is AOE, and can 1hit ko anything that has less then 1500 shild/hp

-gustrag 3 has these little electic rocks they throw which can kill anyone in a few seconds, which is also AOE

[Zareek]

i understand what you want, i just dont understand how it would work, like my first post, "do you want somthing like currupted Vor, where the stalker just has 10k health but only dose 50 damage"

 

the only thing i can see in the orginal post is the "Stalker becomes a kill, or be killed situation"

 

-the Harvester shoots a orb like thing, which is AOE, and can 1hit ko anything that has less then 1500 shild/hp

-gustrag 3 has these little electic rocks they throw which can kill anyone in a few seconds, which is also AOE

I met Harvester once, and it died in a second. I met G3 a few times, first time I managed to kill the first 2 but the last one killed me. The difference here is, you can actually avoid G3's abilities and attacks. You have time to dodge, take cover, and plan your next move.

 

What I would like for stalker, could be a few things:

 

- Different AI that makes him behave differently (Behave a bit more like an actual person that takes cover himself, instead of running around with a drawn bow like a r-tard)

 

- Higher hp, less damage output. With his abilities and maybe a few more mechanics, this would make it possible to fight him for a longer period of time. Relaxing at this point would get you killed, but at the same time you would have a chance if you were focused and actually thought before you acted.

 

- Higher hp, less accuracy:  Still huge damage, but at this point it would be possible to get out from cover for a  second, get a few good hits in, and get back to cover. The fight would take longer, and it would be all about you praying that he wouldnt hit you in the process.

 

- Less damage, several stages (like Lephantis).

 

- Smarter AI, no ability nullify

 

The list could go on forever. These ideas werent thought through 100%, they were just to show you that the possibilities are endless. He needs to be strong and hard to kill, but he also needs to be doable outside the 0,5 second spawn window of him getting up.

 

 

Edit: 1 hit kill abilities in boss fights are stupid, and they need to be removed.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Zareek

[Rekkou]

If it's solo, it's really a quick draw duel fight, no need to dodge or try to maneuver. Just get into an empty large room and ready your weapon.

 

Designed boss means they are designed specifically to be defeated no matter how hard they are. That's where stalker is different, he is balanced as if he's another player, it's a simple kill or to be killed. It's indeed annoying when he popped up when leveling a warframe/weapon, but when i'm on my best gear, it's a fair fight and i accept my defeat as my lack of skill.

[Zakharon]

I say have a special boss fight when you get marked 1v1 in a room like where you take the first mastery test but darker, you kneel at each other and then you duel he can still teleport and be sneaky but you can use your abilities  

[Zareek]

If it's solo, it's really a quick draw duel fight, no need to dodge or try to maneuver. Just get into an empty large room and ready your weapon.

 

Designed boss means they are designed specifically to be defeated no matter how hard they are. That's where stalker is different, he is balanced as if he's another player, it's a simple kill or to be killed. It's indeed annoying when he popped up when leveling a warframe/weapon, but when i'm on my best gear, it's a fair fight and i accept my defeat as my lack of skill.

Thats the thing. It has nothing to do with skills. I was with my best weapon, my Ash frame which I use the most and have been using for a long time. I was ready when he spawned, but I didn't geta chance to do anything. My Tiberon can't 1 hit kill a boss, it's high dmg, burst. I had 1 option, and 1 option only at that point. Bladestorm to win. But that would be rather pathetic. I hate that it's my only option unless I run around with a huge dps cannon like the opticor.

 

There is nothing fair about fighting him as he is right now. You can be agile as hell and be really fast and do all sorts of tricks and smart maneuvers, but it won't help you one bit. Skills means NOTHING against the Stalker, which is my main problem.

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

the trick is to not let him get up

[Liquidsteel]

How's this?

 

Stalker appears - Lock down enacted, He duplicates shields/health/armour of the highest member, and disables all but one of your weapons, only using one of his.

 

That means he doesn't really need a great AI, it's just you have to be good at your game.

 

And if you're trying to level Akbolto from 1; you REALLY have to bring your game.

[Xriborg]

1:But his not a boss. .. his an assassin, basicly he was made, to put the tenno in their place 

 

2: he only has one offencive abillity and two deffencive abilitys

-slash and dash which can easly be dodged by walking to the side

-absorb, which can be countered  by not attacking him or by walking away

-and a skill disable, which has a casting animation

 

which pritty much puts it, a even fight, where the fight ends up only with the players skills with their weapon, and how stress a player is under (to shoot the absorb or not to shoot)

 

You're completely missing the point.

 

1) First off, he is a boss in a game design sense, a special enemy designed to be a much greater challenge than the regular enemies. And just because he's supposed to "put the tenno in their place" doesn't mean he should just have the ability to nullify powers. Using that logic, should he be able to nullify everything we do as tenno? Take away shields and guns? Should he strip our armor? Should he take away our wallrunning abilities?

 

2) Skill with your gun has almost nothing to do with it. It's all about what gun you brought and how well it's modded. He's essentially a gear check. Also, hope you brought a tanky frame, since all those caster powers of yours are useless!

[Volume]

Fake difficulty at its finest.

 

I wish this game had a duel-circuit.

 

No mods, just Braton, Lato, and Skana, and you challenged AI tenno champions or something, and had to wall run and slide and do all kinds of stuff so fights are perfectly evenly matched and such.

[Rekkou]

Thats the thing. It has nothing to do with skills. I was with my best weapon, my Ash frame which I use the most and have been using for a long time. I was ready when he spawned, but I didn't geta chance to do anything. My Tiberon can't 1 hit kill a boss, it's high dmg, burst. I had 1 option, and 1 option only at that point. Bladestorm to win. But that would be rather pathetic. I hate that it's my only option unless I run around with a huge dps cannon like the opticor.

 

There is nothing fair about fighting him as he is right now. You can be agile as hell and be really fast and do all sorts of tricks and smart maneuvers, but it won't help you one bit. Skills means NOTHING against the Stalker, which is my main problem.

 

Gear does matter but the skill in question is simple quick tracking and aiming. If enemy is designed not to be able to hit agile target and do high damage, then it's unfair for them because they are the one being gimped to lose and it's just another boss designed to be defeated.

[MegpoidBeetle]

Melee the $hit out of him, his Hate swings quite slow and if your weapon has a high damage output+channeling he's a piece of cake, and you have the advantage of blocking too.

[Lorthos_Mornin]

All of the hunters have been pretty good fights for me.  Whenever I see that flash step one is getting into an open space, and step two, for stalker, is a piece of advice I picked up from the forums, engage at point blank range.  You'll last longer against the Hate than you will against the Despair, and much longer than against the one-shot kill dread (most of the frames I run have fairly low hp).

 

Now on to the actual topic.  I don't think Stalker needs to be nerfed.  He's hard sure, but you always have the option of cheap tactics, and it's a pretty fun fight if you actually engage.

 

Edit: tenno'd on the melee advice

Edited November 8, 2014 by Lorthos_Mornin

[MegpoidBeetle]

All of the hunters have been pretty good fights for me.  Whenever I see that flash step one is getting into an open space, and step two, for stalker, is a piece of advice I picked up from the forums, engage at point blank range.  You'll last longer against the Hate than you will against the Despair, and much longer than against the one-shot kill dread (most of the frames I run have fairly low hp).

 

Now on to the actual topic.  I don't think Stalker needs to be nerfed.  He's hard sure, but you always have the option of cheap tactics, and it's a pretty fun fight if you actually engage.

 

Edit: tenno'd on the melee advice

OP listen to this guy, he knows it well.

[Zareek]

All of the hunters have been pretty good fights for me.  Whenever I see that flash step one is getting into an open space, and step two, for stalker, is a piece of advice I picked up from the forums, engage at point blank range.  You'll last longer against the Hate than you will against the Despair, and much longer than against the one-shot kill dread (most of the frames I run have fairly low hp).

 

Now on to the actual topic.  I don't think Stalker needs to be nerfed.  He's hard sure, but you always have the option of cheap tactics, and it's a pretty fun fight if you actually engage.

 

Edit: tenno'd on the melee advice

I know about his Hate damage and all, but again, like the other guy said, its a gear check. Instead of being able to fight him with everything at your desposal, you are forced to either cheaply 1 hit him with ability, or pray that you have a decent melee weapon equipped.

 

His AI is rusty, and even if you went in with a super strong scindo to smash his head in with a few hits, he will stand there and take it like a moron. melee or not, fighting him has no depth, and that is what I want to see changed.

 

Edit: Also, like I said in my OP, he can be easy to kill or impossible. If you get 1 hit by a dread arrow before you can even think about drawing your melee weapon, then thats that.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Zareek