Kubrow System Feels Anaemic In Terms Of Supporting Features And Overall A Credit Sink

[Neocyberman]

Issue

 

I enjoy my kubrow, as a pet. I didn't expect to but I actually kind of felt attached to my first kubrow. Once he stopped barking so much as a puppy I enjoyed having him around. He was really quick and efficient at killing enemies and occasionally gave me ammo. 

 

On the second kubrow it became clear to me that both the wyrm and carrier sentinels VASTLY outdo all kubrows. Here is why.

 

Kubrows are expensive, a credit sink even for their intended role as an endgame item. I've been told that they are intended to be a feature for endgame players with credits to spend on such a thing, that they are a luxury. How? The quest is available to the player at like mastery rank 3. A time when every little bit of credits you get are quite important to upgrading your mods. Furthermore energy cores take 100K and an argon crystal to reproduce. 

 

Kubrows offer little in functionality that sentinels dont. Sentinels have a relatively easier cost requirement than kubrows and they are just plain better. You pay 115K once and never again. With kubrows you have to constantly put in credits as the months go by to be able to use a mechanic that has much less utility that a cheaper alternative. You put in a lot of credits and a lot of resources and they just are not worth it. 

 

Let me break this down. A kubrow has the ability to target single enemies not particularly near the player and can, through its running around separate itself from the player making it hard to manage and save if the worst happens. The powers it affords are quite situational and iffy at times. Why cant I tell my kubrow when to stealth me? Why cant I command my kubrow to dig when I want or stop digging when I need to to attack. By comparison Sentinels have a built in logic system the player has agency in programming and making useful. Also they afford the player a possible 4 useful actions they can always reliably use compared to a kubrows what? 2?

 

Many of those kubrow mods seem to be there not to increase their utility but are there to mitigate their weaknesses. Link health, link health, link shields not improve their functionality. The others which are not breed specific exist  as pure damage upgrades. The one mod that alters functionality and adds more utility is the locker opening one. Thats it.

 

 

Solutions:

 

General fleshing out of their use and abilities. As I think I've explained properly kubros cost more, take more to maintain and offer less functionality to a set of players who are supposed to have the time and resources to maintain them. They should offer more functionality on the whole than the alternative that fills the slot.

 

A feature someone brought up before is a general fetch command or mod. In a manner similar to Carriers they should at least be able to gather resources and fetch things. Heck it could even bee breed specific, Sahasa's are mentioned to be able to do so.

 

Kubrows could be commanded to set to do things by the owner. The collar is supposed to serve as a bond between owner and pet but the only thing you can do with kubrows is let them act out their instincts. Why not give the player a way of directing this supposedly highly specialized animal that follows them around to do specific tasks if we are not given a precept system?

 

Discuss, any ideas you might have had? 

[Guest]

I agree with what you have said, and must also add that the "link" system for their mods means tanky frames get yet another advantage, like it happened in Archwing.

[dashashou]

atm the kubrow   are orbital  followers and usually get lost and re-pop alot which  really slows down on both their usefulness  utility as well as their AI ,

 

plus  their   AI seemed  linked to their  animations ;  all sadly from a  static / standing starting point   which was the quickest way  to setup  their AI 

AI work is hard and  not  a buying point for most players . 

 

With the current degen , and the 3 hour wait to switch kubrows .Most players just level and shelf there kubrows , i would be surprised if  less than  95% of  all kubrows aren't in permanent deep freeze  

 

 

Atm there seen as a novelty , something done and not to be looked at till 2.0  Ai wise - hope i'm wrong

 

I hope they improve the kubrow AI before kubrow armor comes out  i wouldn't put money on it  

[DSMK2]

After farming and incubating an egg, Kubrows lack much player involvement; They don't feel organic, just slot in mods and abilities that determine their functionality, then rank them up as with any other piece of equipment... Would've been interesting if we were able to train them.

 

Since there's a genetic degradation mechanic... Couldn't we harvest food via scanning plants/killing wildlife, then feeding them to our kubrow(s) to restore them? Could make trips to Earth quite lucrative, Opticor cooked Sand Skate flesh seasoned with the oil of a Moonlight Threshcone... Manufactured from a goddamn Tenno stealth ship because 3D printing food is heh. Not only that, it would also be a great way to restore loyalty, apply buffs, and what not.

 

... Or go raid Frohd Bek's space pantry for his luxury KubrO's. Crazy Kubrow Tenno always get what they want.

 

There's also the 'Q' menu used for gear, I can see DE implementing ways to go though menu pages. Ignoring how-to-navigate:

Page 1: Gear

Page 2: Kubrow/Sentinel Commands

Page 3: Emotes

 

Hit page 2 (Example ideas):

- Run Away: Kubrow attempts to hide

- Call: Calls Kubrow back to your side

- Contextual Marking: Initiates a "point" mode, hit fire to mark or right click to cancel. If a spot is marked, kubrow heads to the spot and waits there. If an enemy is marked, kubrow attacks enemy. If an ally is marked, kubrow acts as if ally is owner (attacking enemies around marked ally)

 

I feel that those who go the organic 'pet' route should go into a very involved part of Warframe; actually raising the thing as opposed to waiting on timers. Could have a whole set of challenges too, maybe a Sigil/Badge for being a patient, and masterful breeder. Work up that loyalty, abilities, base stats for a powerful... Pet thing.

[DVAted]

As far as costing a ton of credits for DNA Stabilizers, I used to complain about that too

but then I realized I can make 100k credits in 4 average runs in the void

so I can stock up on DNA Stabilizers for 4 months in roughly 2 hours and a half

so it's not really a problem for me.

 

I think Kubrows are more useful than Sentinels because they're tougher and stronger (defense and attack wise)

I think they have a more organic feel too. I love sneaking behind two grineer guards and, as I do my stealth kill animation,

slicing the first guy's neck from the back, my Daw destroys the other one in a single hit.

clean, quiet, effective and bad-&#!. As much as I want my mates to do the same when we co-op,

we could never sync the melee attacks the same way without getting seen.

 

also, the furry bastards are just so damn happy all the time xD

 

In my own wall-o-text about Kubrows

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/340775-updated-kubrow-feedback-improve-expand-add

I mentioned bringing more personality to them, and that command guiding/fetching features.

 

I also brought forward some new Specialties for future Kubrow races

 

Let's keep these topics on top till the devs acknowledge them in the "Community Hot Topics" for polls and such

"Which future Kubrow specialties would you like to see?

1. Sheepdog (crowd control)

2. Search & Rescue

3. Pointer & Retriever"

and others like this.

 

I'm sure they'll see that we don't make these topics because we hate Kubrows

but on the contrary, because we love them and want more :D

[Neocyberman]

Come to think of it, Spectres need a command system if DE isnt stuck to the idea of just lazily pasting on the enemy AI onto player owned spectres. Corrupted lancer is a big example of how that goes wrong.

[DVAted]

just to make sure, though

you are aware that one DNA stabilizer restores 40% of the health, right?

You don't just use them daily, I hope :P

[Kruglov]

Both Kubrows and Sentinals (and Nekros ghosts) could really use an overhaul in how they are implemented.

Theres very little reason to have sentinals outside of Carrier or Wyrm. And the Kubrows are becoming the same way now that people are starting to realize some Kubrow abilities are better than alot of the others, but still aren't as good as some Sentinal mods.

 

DE really should look over all the "pets" and do an overhaul in terms of balance.

[Neocyberman]

just to make sure, though

you are aware that one DNA stabilizer restores 40% of the health, right?

You don't just use them daily, I hope :P

No, I dont.

 

Still, by comparison to Sentinels kubrows are:

-Expensive in the short term

-Expensive in the long term

-Offer a single level of utility compared to a possible 4 for sentinels

-Require extra maintenance

 

Kubrows would be worth it if they had a level of control given that they dont have precepts. But they dont. In addition to the above flaws the breed specific utility makes it so you need to have multiple kubrows to get more choices. Okay fine, you have to do that with sentinels... but it has an issue.

 

With sentinels you can make the switch between types without waiting three hours. Additionally you dont need to buy slots to have all the basic types. Kubrows generally loose out and they shouldn't as the player has to put so much effort in and you get so little out.