Erbody Talkin Bout Viver, Here's What I Think (Heavy Opinion Be Warned)

[Z123FFSS89]

It is an exploit but to me it's no different from playing any other map. You can rush alerts by running and pressing one button to clear the map and not get bothered. The only difference is that you don't have to move in viver if you have a good team. For me,it doesn't take the fun out of the game. It's the most fun I've had playing for the simple fact I don't have to deal with rng. I really don't want to call this an exploit because this was just a game theory proved right and even if they do nerf or "fix" viver there will be another loophole. There really is no fix they can do that can't be worked around.

[Sea_Wall]

I think it's cute how you think Viver is an "exploit" because "It takes no skill/All you do is stand in one place press 2 and 4 to win" when that's literally every node and game type in game(Bar Caps and stuff where's its run to WP on map and press 2/4). 

 

Viver is not a disease but the symptom of one. The fact that the syndicate rewards are too garbo to be worthwhile grinding for any other way as well as syndicate dailies being trash. 

[Phaenur]

I think the biggest problem is that every type of "endgame" this game has come up with has really been nothing but undisguised grind.  Events, Tac-Alerts, Void and Derelict missions...and now Syndicates.  There's not enough activity diversity in any of these game modes - they're all either a single mission type, maybe two or three for Warframe quests, or just an extra number to push up through our usual gameplay.  Yes, there's been criticism of the leveling requirements too, but I guarantee that there'd be much less frustration if there were actually some interesting ways to go about raising reputation.  This is especially true of the early grind before there are even the daily alerts, but to be honest those don't feel like anything special yet either.

 

So how to fix this?  In my opinion, before DE adds more rewards, tweaks the leveling speed, or anything like that, they need to at least announce what they're going to do to make the Syndicates more interactive.  I've written (at length) about ways to do this, mostly related to adding character to each faction through the alerts and missions they assign.  I'm also very fond of TinFoilMkIV's suggestion of item drops found in-mission that can be turned in for reputation, accelerated rep gain, or even a brief quest.

 

Really, if there was actually something interesting to do while we watched that number climb up, and if we had rewards that weren't just numbers themselves (dialogue, letters, more gameplay opportunities), we wouldn't see quite the same mad rush to Viver.  Oh, it would still be there, I'm sure, but it would at least be diluted by all of the other things to do and enjoy about the leveling process.

 

All of that takes time to write, code, and implement, of course.  If you want an immediate stop to single-node farming, I'd suggest a rep cap for each mission - maybe 500.  When people complain, well, have their Syndicate of choice send them a one-time letter saying "You know, we're grateful for the hard work you just did, but you're not really spreading our influence very far or fast when you spend half a day on a single cruiser.  Try spreading out a little, it'll be good for everyone."  It's a bit too draconian for my taste, but it would definitely get the job done - and it's not like it's a daily cap or anything evil like that.

 

Still, it's just a thought, and not one I'm entirely sold on myself.

[Rapxtor]

^ sorry but why are you only pointing the finger towards viver?

 

there are many prime parts that require ridiculous grindfest to get lucky enough for 1 effing part

 

bo prime handle is an example, scindo blade is another......nyx prime bp when it first came out

 

so how is this any different?

 

 

you know what the REAL problem is? the fact that even though people are effectively and efficiently farming viver for reputation......its still a crap amount they receive at the end of the mission <- with this reason i fail to see how using viver as a means to get reputation is an exploit when DE is putting these grindwalls upon us in the first place

 

so its not okay to find a way to effectively and efficiently farm in the game (keeping in mind how crappy the rewards are anyway from viver->this is in terms of reputation gain)....but it is okay to slap on a new feature in the game....call it end game but in reality its just a GIGANTIC grindwall?

 

 

if you want some math on it.....non resource booster users gain on average 3.5k reputation from running viver, eris the correct way to farm for reputation

 

that takes about a 30-40 min run in order to gain this amount of reputation......advancing the first title for the a syndicate takes about 1 1/2 hours...if youre lucky....the second title gets boosted even higher than that to an estimated 7 hours...third is about 15 hours, fourth is 22 hours, and the final title is about 30 hours.

 

sorry but even if i were trying to rush....i do not have 77 hours to play this game even within one week or even two....not to mention the ridiculous cost for those mods as well which will ramp up the time required to farm ( and this is just based on viver, eris ONLY)...not to mention that each ability mod (which is 25k rep) takes about 7 hours to farm per card

 

keep in mind that this is an extremely rough estimate and only based on farming reputation on viver, eris

 

the reality is that it is near impossible for casual players to get anywhere near this number if it were not for this mission....even then it is highly unlikely that they would achieve their goals as a casual players before they decide to quit the game out of the pure repetitiveness of grinding for syndicate reputation

 

sorry but there are people out there that do have lives outside of this game....you cant call a feature within the game end game when it is only achievable through players who have all the time in the world to farm

 

sorry but honestly i feel that the players and this community are the ones who are truly being exploited as opposed to the players trying to "exploit" the game

 

Mainly because everything now is around plat, talking about Syndicates like you said very well only few will reach the Mods quickly, but for someone to buy them, anyone have to buy plat for that plat reach the hands of the trader and the same apply to everything else like Bo handle, Scindo Prime Blade, Stances, you name it.

 

It doesnt make the game bad but peharps unfair and divided, since who have time get everything, who have money gets everything and the others just have to be happy to be able to play free game, anything beyond that is just illusion that is accessible to everyone.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

Edit: NOTE: I'm only recently learning about Viver.

 

It isn't an exploit simply because the player is simply playing the game as it was designed.

 

Lets look at what Warframe truly is. It is a grind. 

 

"And what's even worse, to do it with no skill"

What do you expect? Truly, what in the name of RNGesus did you expect? Progression systems are not skill based. They never have been nor will they ever be. Warframe, in its entirety, is a progression system. You work hard for some random item, you enjoy that item for a bit, then you work towards the next. People enjoy that. That's why Warframe has survived. 

 

You cannot get frustrated at people for simply playing the game as intended. Viver simply quickens the grind, and, i pray to RNGesus every night for this: maybe the grind isn't fun for some.

 

HOLY **** that's crazy. Who knew people didn't enjoy work on their free time?! There is a care for this game even with "exploits" like Viver. Heck, I'd be willing to argue that grinding makes communities MORE toxic. That stuff about asking for a Mag or Excalibur; its already happening. 

 

-Nekros for survival

-Nova/Vauban for defense

-"pm your CC and warframe"

-"need a Trinity"

 

Why do people exclude Warframes and, in extension, other players? They do that because they want to maximize their rewards. In other words, lessen the grind. 

 

DE wants to nerf Viver because it inherently works against them. 

 

It isn't an exploit simply because the player is simply playing the game as it was designed.

Edited November 10, 2014 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[WhisperByte]

From my experience there are only two types of "endgame" that "work" in online games:

-Grind

-PvP

 

Being one of the 3 pillars of Nosgoth Year of Endgame, Syndicates falls into a "Grind" category and since it's a type of "endgame" it's supposed to be something that takes months to complete. Naturally grind comes with a matter of efficiency and it just so happens that Viver is agreed to be one of the most efficient places to get standing.

 

If/when DEvs nerf Viver, do you think community will suddenly spread out all over the Sol System? No, they will just move to Cerberus. Are you then going to advocate the nerf to Cerberus? What do you think will happen when/if DEvs nerf that too? People will just find another efficient place but will keep silent about it this time.

 

All in all, live and let live, OP. Especially since it doesn't affect you

Edited November 10, 2014 by WhisperByte

[RiouHotaru]

My 2 cents?

 

I'm fine with people wanting to grind Viver.  What do I not support and do NOT agree with, is the afk-bot farming people have been doing.  Using macros and then leaving your computer running overnight is cheap and exploitive.  If you want to spend 4-5 hours farming Viver, go ahead, but you better damn well be sitting at your computer the whole time.

 

Ultima Online had so many issues with people using macros to cheese-grind their skills up because no one wanted to put in the actual effort to make it happen, and that brought the game down, to be honest.

 

So if people want to grind the old-fashioned way, then sure, that's fine, go right on ahead.  But if you're going to use 'bots then I fully support any and all action DE takes to put a stop to it.

[Drasiel]

"Viver Fever" is kind of a symptom of a larger issue in warframe. From about frame level 1 to 20 on your first few frames, the game is fresh exciting all shiny and new, and honestly really fun to play once you get over the required mod aqisition hurdles. But then you get familiar and comfortable with the game systems and start to understand how they work together (if you are somewhat dedicated to the game and curious).

 

And then you realise:

 

Damage 2.0 is just as shallow as damage 1.0 but with a different meta and complications to eschew easy understanding.

 

Rank 10 mods are a pain in the &amp;#&#33; to level and require large grind, oh look... there are RARE rank 10 mods.... even more grind. (granted you don't really need to go past rank 6-8 if you don't plan to ever play past level 40 enemies but that is still a metric butload of mods and credits to get them there)

 

Stealth is hindered by the nature of random mission generation via tiles, and further by the increasing amount of linear and narrow/tight spaced tiles that are being released.

 

Melee is crippled in effectiveness due to stamina as well as generally falling well below the damage threshold of secondary weapons and primaries.

 

Movement is clunky and punishing when you try to use parkour and there are many errant "edges", "bumps", and "wierd things to get caught on" in the tiles that further exasperate the issue.

 

Archwing's decision to tie your health, armour and shield to your warframe (while ignoring that the major balancing factor of the warframes themselves are their powers which are removed for all intents and purposes in archwing) leaves you with a choice of maybe 4 frames total to use in archwing (Saryn, Rhino, Frost, Valk, no not zephyr her armour is too low).

 

Now you may be wondering what that list that just looks like my personally complaints has to do with "Viver fever" Well here's the thing, each of those things that are listed offer different playstyles and a change of pace. Unfortunately each of those things quickly becomes frustrating and stale because of the current issues in those systems. This frustration comes on even faster and stronger for those that have been playing warframe for a long time and see overhauls to the systems come slowly, or seemingly not at all (I'm sure DE is working on some or all of these and everything takes time, but it's hard to keep that in perspective from the outside).

 

So for those of us who are disenchanted with the current somewhat clunky, problem riddled alternates to our styles of play, there are Syndicates and the new items they offer. We don't have anything else that is nearly as appealing to spend our time on, and playing through the same missions, in the same way as we have been all this time is just not appealing because of how slow the progress is for the only thing we have to drive us. So we run Viver, because it's easy, it gets us what we want, and it has another huge bonus: It nets you a metric butt ton of mods which you can use to rank your 10rank mods which gives a sense of satisfaction that is currently missing from the playstyle rut many veterans have fallen into.

 

*shrugs* Anyway that's just how I see it. "Viver Fever" is just a symptom of a lack of enjoyable alternate playstyles.

[REDHOOOD]

And everyone, this is why we can never have nice things. 

 

1) Super cool place to gain experience. 

2) Some people oppose and shun players using "cool place" vs some people defending it. 

3) DE eventually steps it. 

[Lost_Cartographer]

The only crime Viver commits is bringing to light why people play games - to be rewarded for doing something.  Besides that, I've no problem with people abusing it, and it's a developer decision to let that node stand or not.  DE gets to decide how fast they care for people to gain rep.  They could easily put in a mission cap, or make the sacrifices even harsher, turning the rep grind into a very, VERY minor hurdle in comparison.

 

What's worse?  We all know what is going to happen the moment people finish grinding the hell out of Viver and get their last augment mod, "So... where's the endgame?"

 

Somehow, I don't think "you just beat it" is going to quite catch on as a popular answer.

 

Mostly, DE should just keep doing what they're doing, and not mind those that beg for something to do, and once they have it literally seek the shortest route to beating it and complaining about the process the entire way, only to return to complaining about having nothing to do.  It's a vicious cycle that won't be broken until games across the world start demanding their players to put in some time and effort again.

 

Me?  I run random exterminates, sabotage's, and invasions with a weapon where fanged fusillade/maim can push the slash damage above the other two physical types and I have a blast.  Seeing some rep numbers is just a bonus dopamine rush after all the gibbing I've done running through the mission, shooting things for the sake of shooting things.  I take greater joy in seeing brand new tiles and enemies introduced to old tile sets.  I'm like one in 10,000 though, I'm sure.  Let the rep trickle in, by the time I'm rank 5 there will likely be a few cool new toys for me to peruse.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Littleman88

[sekushiiandee]

Mainly because everything now is around plat, talking about Syndicates like you said very well only few will reach the Mods quickly, but for someone to buy them, anyone have to buy plat for that plat reach the hands of the trader and the same apply to everything else like Bo handle, Scindo Prime Blade, Stances, you name it.

 

It doesnt make the game bad but peharps unfair and divided, since who have time get everything, who have money gets everything and the others just have to be happy to be able to play free game, anything beyond that is just illusion that is accessible to everyone.

^ the below response and quote seems like something fitting that i would say in terms of your reply

 

and yes you did say everything is around plat....but i do not believe that plat or anything tradeable should be used as an excuse for balancing a game.

 

 

 

That 20 plat pricing is only possible after a not quite specific amount of time has past, it always starts high on those rare/new pieces. The timing for a decent price will be about the same on both. 

Trading should never be an excuse or argument when talking about the game either, it was always meant to be a fail safe in rng, not something that balances it. 

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

Essentially, yes.

 

Ridiculous grindfests like Viver are bad for the game.

 

However, we have to consider that there's a reason why ridiculous grindfests like Viver are so popular. There is an underlying problem here that needs to be addressed, the abusing of exploits is just a symptom. 

^ This.

[Janzer]

I appreciate the feedback. I'm just returning to get an idea of what came of this post.

What's most interesting is that a large portion of the responses could have simply just not existed if they had read:

 

"So why are a lot of players, even Founders in the forums from what I read, using this exploit (although they say it's not one)? There is more than likely a reason right?

 

My best guess would be the Syndicate structuring and expense versus reward, which has been criticized highly even though it's been about for about....two weeks. It's the first implementation of this system, and people aren't interested in waiting for DE to make modifications to this system.

 

So what's the solution? I don't have one. I could propose that players learn some patience and let changes come in to affect based on the massive amount of suggestions they've already given DE. I could also say DE, at least put out something that will allow players to know that you will be making modifications to this Reputation system, so they'll feel less inclined to play in the manner in which we currently have on-going."

 

The questions posed were rhetorical. I'm just clearly a bad writer otherwise people would have understood that I was talking rhetorically out loud rather than posing serious questions for people to consider as if I didn't have an answer.

 

The next two paragraphs outline what I believed to be the underlying problem, and some potential avenues for correction or at least placation while fixes were worked on.

 

 

Me?  I run random exterminates, sabotage's, and invasions with a weapon where fanged fusillade/maim can push the slash damage above the other two physical types and I have a blast.  Seeing some rep numbers is just a bonus dopamine rush after all the gibbing I've done running through the mission, shooting things for the sake of shooting things.  I take greater joy in seeing brand new tiles and enemies introduced to old tile sets.  I'm like one in 10,000 though, I'm sure.  Let the rep trickle in, by the time I'm rank 5 there will likely be a few cool new toys for me to peruse.

 

Apparently you and I share similar interests in why we play Warframe, especially the slash damage comment :)

To the others that simply wrote disrespectful comments that were based on conjecture and assumption, thank you for your input as well. It's nice to see where my mindset lies versus that of the community.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Janzer