Agua Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I found this post on reddit and I think it resumes why Viver should not be nerfed: TLDR: Noobs can't do viver, but eventually will have points as they play regular content that veterans already played thousands of times. Veterans shouldn't be forced to replay hundreds of hours of content they already played. Viver is a shortcut for what they should already have after playing through that content. A recently controversial topic, Viver farming has been the subject of much discussion, with valid arguments presented by both sides. The key lies in "both sides", but not the way people think. It's about those that consider Viver farm methods necessary for rep gain and others that say "just play normally, that's the way it's supposed to be". Both sides are actually right, but i haven't seen anyone mention the reason why. If you're a relatively new player, someone with up to 100-150 hours under their belt, you might eventually reach the final rank of your chosen Syndicate at around 500-700 hours, depending how active you are and what missions you run. Just by taking Syndicates as a secondary activity, something you don't actively farm for. In theory. On the other hand, what if you already have that amount of hours played? What if you're one of the plentiful number of rank 11-17 players that like playing Warframe, but simply have very little left to really do? Are you willing to force yourself through content that you've already played through hundreds of times, as if you started everything over? My guess is - probably not. That's the crux of the issue. Veterans grind because there's very little left to do for them anymore. You can't reach Syndicate rewards unless you already repeat things that you've already repeated. That's why vets with experience and resources turn to Viver grinds. Veterans discovered the most effective methods to farm Viver. The titular Viver Syndrome: only veterans can effectively farm Viver. The most effective farming methods are self-eliminating through their requirements. Players that don't have access to resources like specific corrupted mods will not be able to farm Viver properly and will not be able to "exploit" it. Let me explain this in detail. For Viver, you need 3 core frames: Trinity, Mag and Excalibur. All 3 frames have very specific requirements, especially when it comes to Corrupted mods being used. That's part of the Syndrome. These mods are not readily available and cost a huge amount of resources to max. Some of the mandatory mods are Blind Rage, Fleeting Expertise and Overextended, with Transient Fortitude being very useful in some cases. I'd consider Blind Rage and Overextended mandatory for max Viver farm potential. But Blind Rage is a rare rank 10 mod - it takes TONS of resources to max or even get to rank 7+ where it's effective for Viver farm. That's just one of several mandatory Corrupted mods for Viver farming. Trinity: Blind Rage, Overextended, Transient Fortitude, Intensify, Flow, Stretch, with Fleeting Expertise/Streamline recommended but not mandatory Excalibur: Blind Rage, Overextended, Intensify, Flow, Stretch, Streamline, Natural Talent and with Fleeting Expertise recommended(ignore if going for 4 waves) Mag: Blind Rage, Overextended, Intensify, Flow, Stretch, Streamline, Natural Talent, Fleeting Expertise, then pick between Intensify or Transient Fortitude to get as much power strength as possible The 4th frame depends on what your secondary goal is, with a secondary Mag/Excal or Nekros or Rhino being used. Reputation maxing(secondary damage dealer for more kills per wave), loot + rep(Nekros) or long-hauls(Rhino Roar damage buff when going for 4 waves instead of 1, since enemies get a bit more resistant). These are just rough outlines and builds differ from player to player, but they're here to demonstrate what the requirements are for properly farming Viver. In reality, only people that have invested a huge amount of time into Warframe will be able to farm it effectively. So how to "solve" the Viver issue? My personal opinion is: there's nothing to solve. There's an auto-regulating threshold inherent to Viver. If you're a vet player that has done almost everything Warframe has to offer, you'll have the needed resources to "exploit" Viver. That also means that you're not in a position where you can go through all the content again to accumulate Reputation "normally". You can gain 9k+(w. boosters) Reputation per Viver run with a team that has all the necessary requirements. If you're a relatively new player, you won't have the necessary requirements(maxed corrupted mods mentioned above) and trying to "exploit" Viver will be a waste of time for you. But you will probably also have enough content in the game that you haven't gone through to be able to accumulate Rep through normal methods. Viver is neither effective, nor readily available to everyone. Nor is that the case with Syndicate Reputation for that matter - that's why vets went for Viver farm. DE needs to understand that something like Viver, while technically a spawn mechanic exploit, is necessary for certain players right now. It's unreasonable, insane even to expect players with 500+ hours under their belts to redo all the content again for potential rewards that require an insane amount of time to acquire. They need to go about solving the issue through a different method. Maybe adding Rep gain bonuses with higher mastery ranks to compensate for veterans. But until then, Viver-type grindfests are a necessity, not a commodity in Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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