So, About The Right Way To Play The Game...

[KaynArgyr]

Looking for a change in my routine and some active challenge, I went on PUG for a T4D...

 

No exploit, no cheat, we went from wave 1 to 35 sweetly and nicely... By the end of it became challenging, but I guess we could've hold our way up to 40 - 45 for how things had gone...

 

Then we get the NAME bug, someone said it should have us extract by the system...

 

...it didn't happened, we lost a few good drops, I one Argon Crystal which I needed to hatch another pup-thingie...

 

...we got up with mission failed.

 

I'm not really mad, there was nothing really rare (Or that I don't already own.) in the lootbag.

 

I'm not angry at DE either, I'm fully aware that every update in a Software System brings up bugs. And that fixing one bug may likely create another, so yeah. You guys are still doing a great job in my eyes, keep it up.

 

I'm now looking at the Paladins of Good Gaming though;

 

I have farmed Viver like no tomorrow in these past days, I NEVER got a crash or a bug. What you call illicit profit, what you call not the way the game should be played, always worked to the begin to the end.

 

I have got thousands of reputation and hundred of mods while doing the 'wrong' thing...

 

...and be rewarded with nothing for doing the 'right' one...

 

Someone can say it's Karma, that my bad deeds in Viver have earned me this bug to happen...

 

...I'm going to laugh it off, as the only thing I really lost was a SINGLE Argon Crystal. No rare loot, no rare piece or blueprint, not even a rare Core. Hell I have even a 5x of all the Vor mods for how many times I killed him.

 

Someone can say that it's a life lesson about how Crime actually pays off...

 

...I'm *STILL* going to laugh at you. This is not the point.

 

The point is that you Paladins raised a mudstorm of epic proportions upon the people that didn't followed your opinions, asked for their public humiliation and for the nerfhammer to come upon Viver, Warframe and (Probably) even these people as well. (Let's do a lobotomy on them so they can't come with creative solutions...) It felt like being in the witch hunts once again, someone even expected me to stay silent in awe because he was a Founder and had the GRAND MASTER (Yes all caps.) Sigil, so he was better of what I was and anything I could hope to be, and my opinion thus counted little than nothing.

 

This hotfix could have brought us the solution to a bug that affects you guys as well...

 

...but no, you NEEDED to have DE doing something about Viver first...

 

The result? 

 

Is that people running Viver will keep running, people who tried the old ways will not have the same success that Orokin had with the Tenno...

 

My bitterness isn't at the game, the Devs, the bug...

 

...my bitterness is at you, people who couldn't stand other doing something different than what they believed 'right'...

[xlraistlx]

[KaynArgyr]

 

I love humanity, it's people I really dislike.

[Mcl_Blue]

+1

People really should take a look at their priorities. Focus more on "This frame I like is underpowered, let's buff it!" instead of "The frame HE uses is overpowered, nerf it!!", more on "I can't get anything here, let's fix it." instead of "HE can get a lot of stuff there, let's nerf it!"

[Lost_Cartographer]

DE is actually against the super fast grinding.  It's the only reason Viver got a fast response, if an underwhelming one.

 

"Can't have fun" remember?  Broken UP stuff never gets looked at except as proxy to something else critical, OP stuff stays untouched because it's simply okay, and blatant easy mode game-beating stuff gets insta-nerfed to be less game-beating.  AKLato, Machete, and status chance mods are broken UP.  It will be close to another year before they even get looked into I bet.  Boltor Prime is powerful, but it's not going to give you 10,000 rep.  Viver will, so it's game-beating.  Gotta nerf game beating, because the cardinal rule of being a creator is don't give the people what they want. Complete satisfaction is ironically the losing card to play.

[ToxicTroublermaker]

So many things RIGHT with this post.

This guy, this guy right here. He gets WHY we run viver AND he has the balls to tell people off that dont believe in ways other than their own that creates a false sense of right and wrong.

Take ALL my upvotes brother you have seen truth

[Archistopheles]

I was just happy that I could get a 4 man PuG together pretty much as soon as I queue'd.

Then I was happy that enemies actually spawned at a high enough rate to keep me busy.

Then I was happy that I was getting T4 keys at wave 4 instead of going to wave 12 and getting nothing.

Then I was happy that I was being rewarded with a noticable change in rep, as opposed to the previous "drops in the bucket" I had been getting.

I was happy.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Archistopheles

[Seraphyx]

So, what exactly is this meant to discuss? Is it supposed to rub it in to people who are not doing Viver or not able to or what exactly is the purpose of you creating the thread?

 

I think I may have completely missed the point of your post.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Seraphyx

[azour]

Well at least that node gave people a purpose and a sense of cooperation

I wish every damn thing in this game did that

[RoboDoge]

Well at least that node gave people a purpose and a sense of cooperation

I wish every damn thing in this game did that

Spamming one key or using macro isnt cooperation. Once people made few runs and get acustomed to few known tactics, all teamwork could be this:

 

"Who is using which frame? And which tactics are we using?"

 

 

That is all.

[azour]

Spamming one key or using macro isnt cooperation. Once people made few runs and get acustomed to few known tactics, all teamwork could be this:

 

"Who is using which frame? And which tactics are we using?"

 

 

That is all.

 

Its still better than

 

"Ok guyz we go in and everybody run everywhere, good luck"

[KaynArgyr]

DE is actually against the super fast grinding.  It's the only reason Viver got a fast response, if an underwhelming one.

 

"Can't have fun" remember?  Broken UP stuff never gets looked at except as proxy to something else critical, OP stuff stays untouched because it's simply okay, and blatant easy mode game-beating stuff gets insta-nerfed to be less game-beating.  AKLato, Machete, and status chance mods are broken UP.  It will be close to another year before they even get looked into I bet.  Boltor Prime is powerful, but it's not going to give you 10,000 rep.  Viver will, so it's game-beating.  Gotta nerf game beating, because the cardinal rule of being a creator is don't give the people what they want. Complete satisfaction is ironically the losing card to play.

 

Problem is that Viver *still* grinds fast. The only problem is with mod reaping, but doubt anyone who runs that node is actually interested in mods.

 

So, what exactly is this meant to discuss? Is it supposed to rub it in to people who are not doing Viver or not able to or what exactly is the purpose of you creating the thread?

 

I think I may have completely missed the point of your post.

 

It doesn't surprise me, because completely missing the point of my post sums up our interactions in the previous thread.

 

Even before, you still kept hiding behind the wall of saying that you knew what was right and what was wrong for us. Even before, any reasoning I tried to do with you fell on the deaf ears of someone who said "You guys are going too fast, and it's wrong, it's not what DE wants..."

 

So yeah, you may have probably missed it, but I think you not even tried to do so, because it goes against your belief and thus something wrong by its own nature.

 

Despite that, for whoever is asking a clarify on my words:

 

The sense of this post is to point out WHY people runs Viver like that... To point out how painful and annoying of a thing is to make these runs, to point out that Viver isn't a form of supreme coordination or anything people would say to defend it... To point out that Viver is the equivalent of going to the dentist rather than keep slowly suffering because you fear to go there...

 

The sense of this post, is to point out that Viver is a CHOICE. That no one would look down on who doesn't do it, that no one should look down on who does it. 

 

The sense of this post is to point out that Founders are no better than players that had come after. That having supported the game in the begin doesn't entitles them to believe they can think for the others. That they shouldn't be allowed to look down on others because of their GRAND MASTER Sigil.

 

The sense of this post is to point out that there are people that will run Viver for cheap profit. But also that there are others that feel the pace DE has choosen so far frustrating. That there is no shame in thinking twice about how fast one should progress.

 

The sense of this post is that Viver is still running. That people are still reaping thousands of reputation, that while the Mods drop had been greatly nerfed, the meaning behind these runs hadn't been touched. And that proper runs may end up with you loosing all the fruits of your efforts. 

 

The sense of this post is that I've seen people celebrating here on forum about Viver being nerfed...

 

...and, still, Viver keeps going on... 

 

But eh, there's nothing to discuss, right?

 

Nothing about how one feels having to run earth missions for a meager 600 rep at best, nothing about how people tries to force their ideals on other, nothing about anything because it goes against some people's belief.

[Seraphyx]

To me it just seems like you have a lot of resentment towards founders and you are just choosing to get it off your chest with Viver as the excuse.

 

There are already so many threads discussing Viver, I just don't see what yours is supposed to add that isn't already being discussed in one of them.

 

Okay, I get it. People are doing runs on Viver because it's the most efficient and quickest way to gain rep. I already knew that, and I think everyone else already knew that. So I guess I didn't miss the point of your post, I just assumed it must have been something else.

 

I gave several very specific reasons based on DE's designs on why I believe that you aren't meant to gain rep that quickly and why I think something should be done about it. Why is it that YOU are allowed to have "beliefs" about something and try and force me to see things your way and just accept that but I'm not?

[KaynArgyr]

To me it just seems like you have a lot of resentment towards founders and you are just choosing to get it off your chest with Viver as the excuse.

 

There are already so many threads discussing Viver, I just don't see what yours is supposed to add that isn't already being discussed in one of them.

 

Okay, I get it. People are doing runs on Viver because it's the most efficient and quickest way to gain rep. I already knew that, and I think everyone else already knew that. So I guess I didn't miss the point of your post, I just assumed it must have been something else.

 

I gave several very specific reasons based on DE's designs on why I believe that you aren't meant to gain rep that quickly and why I think something should be done about it. Why is it that YOU are allowed to have "beliefs" about something and try and force me to see things your way and just accept that but I'm not?

 

Not really having resentment against all founders...

 

Just you and another dude that basically shrugged off anything people said with: "I am grand master!"

 

And again, I didn't made this post to discuss Viver... I made this post to discuss about some players attitude of superiority toward other players...

 

I remember your specific reasons and I said I saw your point on them, but once again, all of your specific reasons were about people having to proceed at what seemed to be the pace DE had choosen. You never took in consideration that such a pace could be badly calibrated, you never took in consideration that maybe DE could have been more generous about that, you just said: "these are my reason, this I'm right and your points are moot."

 

Also, you said that rushing things could end up by ruining the game for the ones who rushed it. And again, I say that it's a choice of their. That neither me or you have a saying on how they choose to take the experience.

[EdgeKasim]

id say this is pretty well up there, there is literally NO REASON what so ever for some people...if not all people to fuss and whine about how another person goes about how they play a game, if they are not using banned devices or breaking the rules of conduct.  having to see a bunch of people getting overly sensitive just because others have found a way to make the grind less grindy and they werent smart enough to come up with it first really speaks volumes about what our community has spiraled down into.  we use to be a collection of half way decent people, but i guess most of them left after the first bunch of "nerf batters" started their crusades

 

plain and simple there are many ways to play the game, rushing, farming, strategicly, foolishly, and so on...none are the "right" or "wrong" way to play...why do people find it so hard to understand that

 

and to the guy saying viver isnt for mods....those of us that didnt care for the syndicates were using it for mods, but not anymore.

 

Edit - guess ill use the word "fuss" instead then

Edited November 12, 2014 by EdgeKasim

[Seraphyx]

Not really having resentment against all founders...

 

Just you and another dude that basically shrugged off anything people said with: "I am grand master!"

 

And again, I didn't made this post to discuss Viver... I made this post to discuss about some players attitude of superiority toward other players...

 

I remember your specific reasons and I said I saw your point on them, but once again, all of your specific reasons were about people having to proceed at what seemed to be the pace DE had choosen. You never took in consideration that such a pace could be badly calibrated, you never took in consideration that maybe DE could have been more generous about that, you just said: "these are my reason, this I'm right and your points are moot."

 

Also, you said that rushing things could end up by ruining the game for the ones who rushed it. And again, I say that it's a choice of their. That neither me or you have a saying on how they choose to take the experience.

What the hell are you talking about? I have never flaunted my "founder" status or acted like I'm far superior to anyone else who isn't a founder (I hardly even pay attention to who is and isn't a founder). I am giving my opinion on something and supporting it based off of what DE has implemented in the game. That's it. Just because my opinion doesn't match yours doesn't mean I have some sort of superiority complex all of a sudden just because I'm a founder. Get over it... It's just a stupid forum badge, I'm sure there are many more people who have given hundreds more dollars than I did after the founder packs were retired...

 

I also never said the pace DE set was perfect or ideal for progression. On numerous occasions I have said the exact opposite, that it's too slow and we need alternative ways to gain rep faster. All I said was that based off of the things they've implemented in the game as a BASE for rep gain, there is FAR too large of a gap between that and what you are able to get on a map like Viver. Just some common sense should raise a red flag with anyone that maybe, MAYBE, this is not the pace that DE intended people to progress through Syndicates.

 

I did say that rushing through content could burn people out and ruin Syndicates or the game for them. I ALSO said that even if that is the case it's completely up to them if they wanted to do that, it's their choice and their way of playing the game. So what's the problem?

[Monolake]

As of now, there is very high (like 50%)  chance of getting gamebreaking UI bug past 30 waves

Nothing you can do, extract at 30 to be safe. The game is in pretty bad state right now.

[EetNotErn]

Here's the thing. I've participated in the Viver farming (the standing there and spamming over and over method) a handful of times and completely hated it. But I'm not going to tell others how to play their game, however I don't like how one single boring method is the best way to gain rep over normal gameplay. That's a sad state for the game.

 

Also, there were times where these Viver farmers were very hostile and rude to anyone not playing their way. So it's not just these so called "paladins" that are telling others how to play. 

 

Bottomline, I think we can all agree that syndicate grind sucks and there should be a better way of implementing it.

[KaynArgyr]

As of now, there is very high (like 50%)  chance of getting gamebreaking UI bug past 30 waves

Nothing you can do, extract at 30 to be safe. The game is in pretty bad state right now.

 

In all honestly I didn't knew about that bug, first time I saw it and I was literally bragging around that snowglobe headshotting stuff no-scope.

 

Careless of me, I admit... But as I said, I was no angry over the lost loot...

 

@Seraphyx: Seriously dude, you're right.

 

Happy now?

 

Let's just ignore each other, it's not that I have anything to gain in keeping our conversation...

 

You have permission to brag with your friends that you made me concede defeat as long you keep ignoring me as I'll ignore you.

[Seraphyx]

Here's the thing. I've participated in the Viver farming (the standing there and spamming over and over method) a handful of times and completely hated it. But I'm not going to tell others how to play their game, however I don't like how one single boring method is the best way to gain rep over normal gameplay. That's a sad state for the game.

 

Also, there were times where these Viver farmers were very hostile and rude to anyone not playing their way. So it's not just these so called "paladins" that are telling others how to play. 

 

Bottomline, I think we can all agree that syndicate grind sucks and there should be a better way of implementing it.

That's what people don't bring up very often. Try joining Viver with anything other than the 3 or 4 classes and people will either leave the game flat out or get angry at you. I had a friend trying to do some Viver runs and was wondering why everyone kept leaving right as he joined. He asked one of them and the reason they gave was essentially "he's playing wrong" or not the correct frame.

 

Finding something to do in recruiting is also near impossible for me right now, literally everyone is either LF > Viver or H > Viver need <frames>. Makes the game even more boring that everyone wants to do the same thing constantly.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Seraphyx

[KaynArgyr]

Here's the thing. I've participated in the Viver farming (the standing there and spamming over and over method) a handful of times and completely hated it. But I'm not going to tell others how to play their game, however I don't like how one single boring method is the best way to gain rep over normal gameplay. That's a sad state for the game.

 

Also, there were times where these Viver farmers were very hostile and rude to anyone not playing their way. So it's not just these so called "paladins" that are telling others how to play. 

 

Bottomline, I think we can all agree that syndicate grind sucks and there should be a better way of implementing it.

 

As I stated, Viver is the bottom of gameplay...

 

Also, yes, some of the Hosts are pretty hostile and unpleasant to deal with... But that's something you get with ALL the PUGs. I have been questioned countless time about my Mastery Rank, saying that I wasn't high enough because it was just 9, often even rudely.

 

It's something you need to take into account when having to deal with others... And it's something that falls upon the specific individuals, not the practice itself...

[EetNotErn]

As I stated, Viver is the bottom of gameplay...

 

Also, yes, some of the Hosts are pretty hostile and unpleasant to deal with... But that's something you get with ALL the PUGs. I have been questioned countless time about my Mastery Rank, saying that I wasn't high enough because it was just 9, often even rudely.

 

It's something you need to take into account when having to deal with others... And it's something that falls upon the specific individuals, not the practice itself...

 

That's not even my point. The point is that it's not the so called Paladin or Anti Viver crowd that are the only ones dictating how others play but a large chunk of the Viver farmers as well. That's why I take issue with the topic of this thread that you only called out the Anti-farming crowd but not a peep about the Viver farmers as though it's a one sided issue.

 

You know the Viver farming is especially bad when you get yelled at for even moving from your spamming spot to kill stuff and pick up mods. So yeah, about the right way to play the game...

Edited November 12, 2014 by EetNotErn

[4ever4gotin]

I've seen the nerf gun placed on Trinity Multiple times over because people cry foul. I understand the feeling but i just get over it and find another way to make it "right" again at my own personal expense.

 

Hek, I'm expecting a Trinity nerf around every hotfix and update.

 

This stuff will always happen and people will always find a way to do it again, people just suck, and its a truth. I've already found a second home for rep farming and me and my friends won't go off blasting our "farm here" signs cause we want to keep it that way and let the whistle blowers run off in the "right" direction.

[KaynArgyr]

That's not even my point. The point is that it's not the so called Paladin or Anti Viver crowd that are the only ones dictating how others play but a large chunk of the Viver farmers as well. That's why I take issue with the topic of this thread that you only called out the Anti-farming crowd but not a peep about the Viver farmers as though it's a one sided issue.

 

I see your point and you're pretty right on that.

 

What I meant, is that the 'elitits' dictate how people should play the mission with them, but people has the chance to still play the mission with others... The farmers will say nothing if you go in a group that's not their own...

 

The 'paladins' dictate how people should play the game in general, and want to prevent everyone to play the mission without conforming to their standards...

 

Hope you'll agree that rudeness aside, the farmer have a minor impact compared to the paladins on how others are allowed to play...

[vaugahn]

The 'paladins' dictate how people should play the game in general, and want to prevent everyone to play the mission without conforming to their standards...

 

Let's not forget that some wrong ways to play the game are actually wrong.

 

If someone found a way to clip under the floor every game and shoot enemies from complete safety, would anyone defend that as "just another playstyle"? No, that would be an exploit. The Viver powerfarm specifically takes advantage of an until-now unknown quirk in interception spawns (and small maps) to grind impossibly fast. Is it an exploit? Maybe. It certainly doesn't seem intended.

 

Basically, my point is this: it's good to defend alternate playstyles, but at some point we should acknowledge that there are some playstyles that should not be defended.