Is There An Official "proper" Way Of Playing?

[Arkuno]

Did you even read my explanation of how i play Limbo? 

 

Yes, you are the energy battery so that the Excals can spam 4(or whichever frame was being used) but I meant it in general, thanks for assuming I didn't read.  :/

 

[Orbister]

Yes, you are the energy battery so that the Excals can spam 4(or whichever frame was being used) but I meant it in general, thanks for assuming I didn't read.  :/

 

I didn't assume it that's why i asked. But if you in fact read it you would know i was also buffing damage and isolating enemies with banish when needed. I asked you if you had actually read it because i put effort in explaining thoroughly and you came and say "spamming 4" like everyone says, which is funny because i bet that everyone saying "spamming 4" hasn't even tried what we are talking about...this is like saying "vegan food is ugly" without even trying it.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Orbister

[KaynArgyr]

Running Viver with that strategy is the most boring way to do it.

 

It's also the most productive.

 

And doesn't hurt anyone.

 

Sure, there are specific people who may be rude and annoying, but in all honestly in all the groups I have been in this didn't happened.

 

People started to group out and, before the mission got launched, someone asked if everyone knew what to do. I have seen groups disbanded and got re-invited if people tried to 'sneak in', with a frame that wasn't the required one. But again, it was rudeness of the invited player who didn't meet the requirement asked for in recruit chat.

 

If everyone in party agrees upon using a certain strategy, then the party doesn't hurt other players. (Who are literally in other istances.)

 

And even so, people could have contacted DE more discreetly about the issue.

 

What have seen had been a public stygmatizing of the group of the grinders, which is ironic because I've got that naming\shaming a scammer publically is forbidden (And we're speaking of someone that did something immoral to take abuse of others.), while calling upon the grinders 'being wrong' is allowed.

 

Again, public stygmatizing in the forums shouldn't be compared to calling names in games of maximum 4 persons. Both things shouldn't be done, but anger happens on the moment, while to thread on forums more composture should be expected.

 

That said, Viver is a very cheap mechanic. There is nothing noble or great about what one does in that mission. Someone made the math, then shared the info and people are using them to their advantage. It's a repetitive action akin to an assembly line. It's nothing glorious, but at the same time nothing immoral and one of the few risks is about people loosing interest in the game after a bit.

 

The other is that the rewards from Syndicate became more common than expected.

 

In the first case, people should consider the situation, and blame no other than themselves if they get to lose appeal for Warframe.

 

In the second case, DE should consider that some people by now stocked mods and reputation, stopping the flow of Reputation or making it harder to get (Without doing something about the Mods already gained) would just give these people a chance to make ulterior profit of their exploit.

[StinkyPygmy]

Again i disagree, i don't see any drama, i see a civil and constructive conversation and then you... saying there is drama that i don't see, seriously, why not stay on topic? maybe you have something valuable to share.

The Inclusion of the words "harassment" and "violent" in the OP would beg to differ.

I am perfectly on topic.

Edited November 12, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[Orbister]

The Inclusion of the words "harassment" and "violent" in the OP would beg to differ.

I am perfectly on topic.

I wasn't referring to this thread i thought it was obvious because it was the first post... i was referring to other threads were things escalated quite easily and fast.

 

And in this post in particular you aren't on topic... you are not saying one single word about the topic... at least in my opinion, unless i have to really read between the lines...

 

btw i changed "harrasing" to "judging and condemning" i'm hoping this will make you less upset, actually i wish it makes you comfortable.

 

But dude... feel free to share whatever you think about the topic, do you think there actually is an official "proper" way of playing? should there really be one?

Edited November 12, 2014 by Orbister

[StinkyPygmy]

I wasn't referring to this thread i thought it was obvious because it was the first post... i was referring to other threads were things escalated quite easily and fast. And in this post in particular you aren't on topic... you are not saying one single word about the topic... at least in my opinion, unless i have read really really between the lines... but dude... feel free to share whatever you think about the topic, do you think there actually is an official "proper" way of playing? should there really be one?

No point in arguing semantics I guess so I'll leave it there.

 

Do I think there is a proper way to play?

Yes and no.

If you are having fun, not completely ruining other players fun and generally being amicable then its all good.

That being said, I do think that playing in a way that is not intended due to an oversight by DE or something similar is not ideal, although once again, as long as you aren't ruining things for other players then its all good and I personally have no complaints.

 

So for the most part there isn't a "proper" way to play but I do think there are certain things that are kind of backtracking in terms of enjoying the game and having fun with it.

[TheErebus.]

In all honesty, I just want to enjoy myself while playing the game. If it involves having to abide by the other people strict rules, I won't enjoy it. 

But I don't know, Orbister, I guess you just had a good time while doing it and so it gave you a positive opinion but it was the opposite for me. 

 

Don't get me wrong though, I'm all for tactical grouping and working together. 

[Orbister]

No point in arguing semantics I guess so I'll leave it there.

 

Do I think there is a proper way to play?

Yes and no.

If you are having fun, not completely ruining other players fun and generally being amicable then its all good.

That being said, I do think that playing in a way that is not intended due to an oversight by DE or something similar is not ideal, although once again, as long as you aren't ruining things for other players then its all good and I personally have no complaints.

 

So for the most part there isn't a "proper" way to play but I do think there are certain things that are kind of backtracking in terms of enjoying the game and having fun with it.

DE haven't said one single word about it being an oversight, and they are well aware of what is going on, because we have seen Rebecca reply about this multiple times saying "we are reviewing the viver situation" or something similar, they are aware of the situation, this is not an oversight. the Hotfix they released after Rebecca said that didn't change anything in Viver.

 

Regarding "backtracking in terms of enjoyment" that is completely subjective, i have fun fishing... and that is sitting in one spot waiting for the fishes to bite... and i have fun doing it... 

[Orbister]

In all honesty, I just want to enjoy myself while playing the game. If it involves having to abide by the other people strict rules, I won't enjoy it. 

But I don't know, Orbister, I guess you just had a good time while doing it and so it gave you a positive opinion but it was the opposite for me. 

 

Don't get me wrong though, I'm all for tactical grouping and working together. 

Yea dude, i totally get you, as i told you before power farming in my opinion is a BIG NO in public games.

 

I used to loathe "doorheroes", you know what i do now? i endure them, or even join them sometimes, and finish the mission and hope for a better group in the next game.

 

Powerfarmers in public games are kinda similar.

 

I would only play in that way if i was invited beforehand, when i join a public game i don't expect people to give me commands, but i do keep my mind open though, you never know what others might teach you.

 

Long ago i joined a public survival and there was this guy encouraging team play, we played together (because everyone agreed) and we had fun, but that rarely happens.

[ChameleonDude]

Seeing as syndicate reputation was designed as a long term goal that you were supposed to work towards, yes, there is a proper way to play - don't try to max it in an afternoon. We're seeing grindier and grindier content being added (see archwings, kubrows, bosses requiring keys), probably because players insist on having everything now. We can go back to the beginning, with rushers vs. just doing the missions properly. There are enemies there - of course the point is to interact with them in some way - beam doors, laser doors and arc traps were added to try and force rushers to slow down... with little success.

 

So yes, I'd say there is an official "proper way of playing". Play the game as it was clearly intended for fun, not rushing everything and complaining that there's nothing to do afterwards.

[Orbister]

Seeing as syndicate reputation was designed as a long term goal that you were supposed to work towards, yes, there is a proper way to play - don't try to max it in an afternoon. We're seeing grindier and grindier content being added (see archwings, kubrows, bosses requiring keys), probably because players insist on having everything now. We can go back to the beginning, with rushers vs. just doing the missions properly. There are enemies there - of course the point is to interact with them in some way - beam doors, laser doors and arc traps were added to try and force rushers to slow down... with little success.

 

So yes, I'd say there is an official "proper way of playing". Play the game as it was clearly intended for fun, not rushing everything and complaining that there's nothing to do afterwards.

That is still your perception of it, not an official way, you are still judging others based on your opinion, fun is what each of us defines as fun, you have your fun, i have my fun, the neighbor has his fun, my dog has his fan, etc.

 

I understand your point about "long term goal" regarding syndicates, so what do you think we should do? slow down on purpose so it takes longer? how long should it take? how to decide the amount of time? should i just stick to syndicate missions and take my Sigil off in any other mission to slow myself on purpose?

 

And in Capture missions you are not required to interact with the enemies, should we do it as well?... cause avoiding them is "inappropriate"? 

 

I think what is "appropriate" and "inappropriate" is a futile debate, because that is exactly the problem, Hitler thought killing Jewish people was appropriate, i bet a lot of people would disagree... i would...

Edited November 12, 2014 by Orbister

[victor_victory]

Efficient tactic is the result of planning, planning needs communication and agreement.

 

There are guidance on the forum to teach people the most effective way. There is no planning there, they just follow the guide.

[Orbister]

There are guidance on the forum to teach people the most effective way. There is no planning there, they just follow the guide.

So reading and learning is a bad thing now?... successfully following a plan that is not your own is not tactical? the only acceptable tactics are the ones that you "invented" yourself? in the army, when they follow strategies that were developed years ago, they are not being tactical?.

 

When you plan your vacations... how do you do it? people have been going to the beach or the mountains or Europe for decades if planning requires new ideas every time how do you do it? do you avoid taking a plane or a bus or driving because it is in the plan of everyone else? how do you set up your tent? you do it upside down because others have already planted it the right way following an existing plan?... how about a career, do you avoid to repeat every step that anyone has ever followed while planning their career?

 

When you play hide and seek you wear fluorescent colors and Christmas lights all over yourself because everyone else has been hiding and you can't copy what they did?

 

Wanna try reinventing the wheel next?

Edited November 12, 2014 by Orbister

[Sebastianx]

Well said, worth the read, but DE will still do something to Viver and there's nothing we can do about it...but what we can do is continue to be efficient in any way possible to maximise our gains no matter what happens.

[victor_victory]

So reading and learning is a bad thing now?... successfully following a plan that is not your own is not tactical? the only acceptable tactics are the ones that you "invented" yourself? in the army, when they follow strategies that were developed years ago, they are not being tactical?.

 

When you plan your vacations... how do you do it? people have been going to the beach or the mountains or Europe for decades if planning requires new ideas every time how do you do it? do you avoid taking a plane or a bus or driving because it is in the plan of everyone else? how do you set up your tent? you do it upside down because others have already planted it the right way following an existing plan?... how about a career, do you avoid to repeat every step that anyone has ever followed while planning their career?

 

When you play hide and seek you wear fluorescent colors and Christmas lights all over yourself because everyone else has been hiding and you can't copy what they did?

 

Wanna try reinventing the wheel next?

What I mean is you don't need communication and agreement to do Viver. You just following the guide, that's all. And it's not necessarily bad. 

Also I didn't say that Viver is bad. I just think teamwork is not the right word to describe what people do in Viver. A good teamwork is more in-depth and complicated and Viver is too simple to be called teamwork.

[Orbister]

what people do in Viver.

So you don't speak from experience then, well i am telling you from experience that even though everyone more or less knows "the plan" there always is planning and communication before a match. and the best plans are the simple ones. 

 

It's funny that you try to describe something you haven't experience and you refuse what others that actually experienced it describe it as.

 

Complicated != Teamwork

Edited November 12, 2014 by Orbister

[SilentMobius]

When you can't stand in one place and spam abilities to lock down a map then you'll know that DE is telling you "That is the wrong way to play"

 

Until then I doubt anyone who currently farms Viver will listen, so it's up to DE.

[TheErebus.]

What I mean is you don't need communication and agreement to do Viver. You just following the guide, that's all. And it's not necessarily bad. 

Also I didn't say that Viver is bad. I just think teamwork is not the right word to describe what people do in Viver. A good teamwork is more in-depth and complicated and Viver is too simple to be called teamwork.

If you read what Orbister has done when he has done Viver, he aided his team by utilizing his abilities to NOT damage the enemies outright, but by instead going for his teammates and aiding them with buffs.

[Ziegrif]

You go around.

You see a guy.

And then you shoot him!

It's not rocket science!

Unless you want to maximize your gain.

[S.T.M.P.D]

You are not an official spokesman of DE your opinion doesn't make it an exploit, it's your opinion, i am not whining the ones whining are the ones that oppose Viver powerfarming. and people knew syndicate rep was a huge grind even before finding Viver, because actually that's how they discovered Viver because syndicate standing is a HUGE grind and people were complaining about the chore even before finding how to get rep faster, people said the grind was too hard from the start.

"I'm not whining, you're whining!"

*Goes on to complain about how hard the Syndicate grind is without Viver*

[Alphafox]

What I mean is you don't need communication and agreement to do Viver. You just following the guide, that's all. And it's not necessarily bad. 

Also I didn't say that Viver is bad. I just think teamwork is not the right word to describe what people do in Viver. A good teamwork is more in-depth and complicated and Viver is too simple to be called teamwork.

This is probably the closest we went to actual teamwork in Warframe. 90% of the game doesn't require that.

[S.T.M.P.D]

There is no right way to play a game. People who farm Viver is not wrong.

What really borders me is people calling Viver farming as good teamwork. What people do in Viver is hardly teamwork, it's just a highly efficient tactic. Something like a production line of a factory, people just do what they need to do repeatedly. No communication, you don't need special traits or knowledge. It is the lowest level of teamwork.

If Viver really is the best teamwork warframe can get, i think DE failed pretty miserably on making a coop game.

It is not team work. It should not be teamwork.

In an ODD I did I was a Vauban with a Frost, a Limbo, and someone else I can't remember. We failed because I was the Vortex spam guy, and I went outside Limbo's bubble too much and got my energy taken by disrupting ancients. That's a failure of teamwork and strategy simple as that.

This whole coordination of mag-excal-trinity? It sickens me. They say it's clever but it's just slapping Corrupted mods on S#&$.

[Alphafox]

This whole coordination of mag-excal-trinity? It sickens me. They say it's clever but it's just slapping Corrupted mods on S#&$.

Congratulation! You resumed the game in a single sentence. 

What is teamwork in your head then? Making a rocket to get to Jupiter with a plastic spoon? Coordination is the base of teamwork, without that it all goes down the toilet. 

Edited November 12, 2014 by Alphafox

[vaugahn]

I suppose what happens on Viver could be considered teamwork, in that it requires multiple people to coordinate.

However, that doesn't make it any less of a cheese tactic.

[S.T.M.P.D]

Congratulation! You resumed the game in a single sentence. 

What is teamwork in your head then? Making a rocket to get to Jupiter with a plastic spoon? Coordination is the base of teamwork, without that it all goes down the toilet.

I'm fairly certain I just gave an example of a teamwork FAILURE.