(PSN)aiptekfanboy Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Remove invisibility from ash pvp results in better pvp balance since every warframe will be visible versus giving every warframe invisibility in pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 well i see this as pointless. loki and ash are easy to see in pvp when invis. its not like you cant see them. not even hard to hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovusNova Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) So, what about Loki? He banned too? Anyway if I'm watching the battlefield carefully, i can normally see them when their invisible. Though it is true that black energy loki's and ash's are properly invisible, maybe in PvP, invisibility needs additional effects to make them more visible As long as you pay attention to more than just drying bullets in battle you'll be fine. There are more annoying things in PvP at the moment. Like limbo being able activate the consoles while in the rift, valkyr being invulnerable ( yes i suppose you can get around this by running away from her when its active) and bladestorm locking people into pretty much cinematic of him stabbing you a load of times. Right now, there is a way for players to deal with invisibility. For the other abilities I mentioned, solutions could be that simply Limbo has to come out of the rift to interact with the consoles. For Valkyr, (and this would only be when she's in PvP) is that instead of full invulnerability, she has 99% invulnerability and that when she's in hysteria you have to deal a certain percentage of damage to Valkyr to knock her out of hysteria. For ash, well either could have that a player is only targeted once by bladestorm instead of targeted repeatedly for about 10 seconds or we could have that you need to do a backflip to stop being targeted by bladestorm. Edited November 12, 2014 by NovusNova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Ban everyone from PVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 well i see this as pointless. loki and ash are easy to see in pvp when invis. its not like you cant see them. not even hard to hit you obviously haven't encountered the black energy invis loki and ash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 you obviously haven't encountered the black energy invis loki and ash i think you should go to an optometrist, the black energy is easy to see cos of the rainbow flare it makes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Talia. Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 i think you should go to an optometrist, the black energy is easy to see cos of the rainbow flare it makes Black Energy Invisibility/Smoke Screen is completely invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 No Ash is squishy for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakshal Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) No Ash is squishy for a reason. Ash is the fifth tanky frames, just barely falling short from Rhino and Frost. :/ Edited November 12, 2014 by Rakshal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraank Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 the only issue is the black energy color(if you turn off all effects) you may encountered. Invisibility itself isnt the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDHOOOD Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Guys, Loki's cloak scales REALLY poorly - his invisibility is no threat until level 20ish. I haven't been playing ash recently; but, since his cloak has an even shorter duration than loki, I can't see it being that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Guys, Loki's cloak scales REALLY poorly - his invisibility is no threat until level 20ish. I haven't been playing ash recently; but, since his cloak has an even shorter duration than loki, I can't see it being that bad. i guess, but non ds pvp is a completely different ball game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDHOOOD Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 i guess, but non ds pvp is a completely different ball game. I agree but one problem at a time - thread title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Guys, Loki's cloak scales REALLY poorly - his invisibility is no threat until level 20ish. I haven't been playing ash recently; but, since his cloak has an even shorter duration than loki, I can't see it being that bad. Until one has Continuity + Black Energy. Then it gets a bit cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakshal Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 lol Forgot to put my opinion on this. XD Only black energy invisibility needs to go, no invisibility entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBorris Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Why not have it so all enemies ability color is red? That will also help with telling if some other abilities are friend of foe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Ash is the fifth tanky frames, just barely falling short from Rhino and Frost. :/His armor is lackluster though. Also, why is Loki being excluded? Edit: Also, the obly reason to actually use Ash is for blade storm and MAYBE invisibility. Edited November 15, 2014 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Ash is the fifth tanky frames, just barely falling short from Rhino and Frost. :/ who r the top 5 tankiest now, ranked in order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakshal Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 who r the top 5 tankiest now, ranked in order? In terms of effective health: Valkyr, Saryn, Oberon, Frost/Frost Prime and Rhino/Rhino Prime are equal, then Ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Talia. Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 (edited) My clan mate Auramau did the math for the effective health pool of Warframes for PvP... Have in mind that the damage types used in PvP have a great impact on the effective health for those frames, for example Corrosive Damage deal +75% against Valkyr's Armor, making a Latron Wraith one shot her, while it takes 2 to 4 shots to kill a Zephyr or an Ash no matter what damage you use. So it's relative to say that Valkyr is the Tankiest, because in practice there are more variables than just the effective health pool. Labels for “PVE” and “PVP” because of the reduced damage to health (to 25%) and the reduced damage to shields (to 50%) in PVP setting. PVE HP = (Rank 30 Base Health) + (Unranked Health * 4.4) PVE Shields = (Rank 30 Base Shields) + (Unranked Shields * 4.4) Armor = Base Armor * 1.1 Theoretical PVP HP = PVE HP * 4 Theoretical PVP Shields = PVE Shields * 2 Effective Health = Theoretical PVP HP * (1 + (Armor / 300)) Valkyr Armor = 1260 PVE HP = 740 PVP HP = 2960 Effective Health = 15392 PVE Shields = 370 PVP Shields = 740 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~16132 Ash Armor = 137 PVE HP = 1110 PVP HP = 4440 Effective Health = 6482 PVE Shields = 740 PVP Shields = 1480 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~7962 Saryn Armor = 325.5 PVE HP = 1110 PVP HP = 4440 Effective Health = ~9257 PVE Shields = 740 PVP Shields = 1480 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~10737 Rhino Armor = 399 PVE HP = 740 PVP HP = 2960 Effective Health = 6897 PVE Shields = 1110 PVP Shields = 2220 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~9117 Zephyr Armor = 31.5 PVE HP = 1110 PVP HP = 4440 Effective Health = 4906.2 PVE Shields = 1110 PVP Shields = 2220 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~7126 Oberon Armor = 136.5 PVE HP = 925 PVP HP = 3700 Effective Health = 5383.5 PVE Shields = 740 PVP Shields = 1480 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~6863.5 Edited November 15, 2014 by RexSol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasumi- Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 So, what about Loki? He banned too? Anyway if I'm watching the battlefield carefully, i can normally see them when their invisible. Though it is true that black energy loki's and ash's are properly invisible, maybe in PvP, invisibility needs additional effects to make them more visible As long as you pay attention to more than just drying bullets in battle you'll be fine. There are more annoying things in PvP at the moment. Like limbo being able activate the consoles while in the rift, valkyr being invulnerable ( yes i suppose you can get around this by running away from her when its active) and bladestorm locking people into pretty much cinematic of him stabbing you a load of times. Right now, there is a way for players to deal with invisibility. For the other abilities I mentioned, solutions could be that simply Limbo has to come out of the rift to interact with the consoles. For Valkyr, (and this would only be when she's in PvP) is that instead of full invulnerability, she has 99% invulnerability and that when she's in hysteria you have to deal a certain percentage of damage to Valkyr to knock her out of hysteria. For ash, well either could have that a player is only targeted once by bladestorm instead of targeted repeatedly for about 10 seconds or we could have that you need to do a backflip to stop being targeted by bladestorm. Maybe Ash and Loki's that go invisible have this small, slightly transparent yet still visible, Null Star kind of effect around them? Not literal antimatter particles, though. Just a cosmetic thing to make invisibility in PvP less overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Alphapsykongaroo Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 My clan mate Auramau did the math for the effective health pool of Warframes for PvP... Have in mind that the damage types used in PvP have a great impact on the effective health for those frames, for example Corrosive Damage deal +75% against Valkyr's Armor, making a Latron Wraith one shot her, while it takes 2 to 4 shots to kill a Zephyr or an Ash no matter what damage you use. So it's relative to say that Valkyr is the Tankiest, because in practice there are more variables than just the effective health pool. Labels for “PVE” and “PVP” because of the reduced damage to health (to 25%) and the reduced damage to shields (to 50%) in PVP setting. PVE HP = (Rank 30 Base Health) + (Unranked Health * 4.4) PVE Shields = (Rank 30 Base Shields) + (Unranked Shields * 4.4) Armor = Base Armor * 1.1 Theoretical PVP HP = PVE HP * 4 Theoretical PVP Shields = PVE Shields * 2 Effective Health = Theoretical PVP HP * (1 + (Armor / 300)) Valkyr Armor = 1260 PVE HP = 740 PVP HP = 2960 Effective Health = 15392 PVE Shields = 370 PVP Shields = 740 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~16132 Ash Armor = 137 PVE HP = 1110 PVP HP = 4440 Effective Health = 6482 PVE Shields = 740 PVP Shields = 1480 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~7962 Saryn Armor = 325.5 PVE HP = 1110 PVP HP = 4440 Effective Health = ~9257 PVE Shields = 740 PVP Shields = 1480 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~10737 Rhino Armor = 399 PVE HP = 740 PVP HP = 2960 Effective Health = 6897 PVE Shields = 1110 PVP Shields = 2220 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~9117 Zephyr Armor = 31.5 PVE HP = 1110 PVP HP = 4440 Effective Health = 4906.2 PVE Shields = 1110 PVP Shields = 2220 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~7126 Oberon Armor = 136.5 PVE HP = 925 PVP HP = 3700 Effective Health = 5383.5 PVE Shields = 740 PVP Shields = 1480 PVP Total Health & Shield Pool = ~6863.5 cool, but with this in mind, how different is the order if a corrosive/cold build is applied(since nothing is better than that combo at the moment, even magnetic/poison suks now) ? say for example if we used a marelok or latron wraith. like u said, in practice the theoretical effective hp doesnt matter when certain elements melt shield and armor resists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Talia. Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) cool, but with this in mind, how different is the order if a corrosive/cold build is applied(since nothing is better than that combo at the moment, even magnetic/poison suks now) ? say for example if we used a marelok or latron wraith. like u said, in practice the theoretical effective hp doesnt matter when certain elements melt shield and armor resists. Well i'm not a math guy, i will ask my friend Auramau if he can do the math for the Corrosive + Cold combo vs all Warframes with their effective health pool. (Having in mind that Cold also deals some extra damage vs Shields) Edited November 17, 2014 by RexSol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuNick Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 i think that the invisibility should deactivate if the user made an attack. That way the invisibility wouldn't be so OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakshal Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 i think that the invisibility should deactivate if the user made an attack. That way the invisibility wouldn't be so OP. Interesting idea. That would make it a useful flanking or infiltration ability without being mega OP (might still be pretty powerful though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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