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How We Can Make Non-Endless Missions More Appealing.


Kinperor
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Hey there,

 

It occurred to me a long, long while ago, that the way we collect Reputation was flawed from the get go because of it scaling on affinity. I think for many here as well, it was a foregone conclusion that it was yet another system that was biased toward endless modes of all kind, or to be more accurate, any mode with a large amount of spawn. 

 

This include... That other node. 

 

I will not speak of this node here, other than say it shows that players are again feeling pressurized into turning the game into a conveyor belt of enemy. 

 

With that said, I am of the opinion that there are already ways to equalize this... inequality between high-spawn missions and regular mission. This situation is aberrant in the sense that, as I said above, it clearly puts a pressure on players to converge on a... "tactic" (I won't use the E-word here) to progress. Other missions needs some help to compete, and I think we already have some of the foundation in the game right now to equalize.

 

First equalization: There are non-combat bundles of affinity already offered in the game, these should be worth more than kill-affinity in term of reputation. Have you ever noticed how you get experience for reviving teammates, capturing points in interception, killing all the Wardens, etc etc? I believe that if we gave these a bigger multiplier in reputation gain than what they have right now, the missions types would be much more appealing to players who wants Reputation without going... on that node. Currently these affinity rewards are much rarer than what you get from genociding a whole battalion as well as giving only marginally more affinity than a light unit (whose number quickly closes the gap in affinity gain), without mentioning these objectives are always more important than killing a number higher than 9000 of infantry (it doesn't matter how much lancers you kill, that target must be stopped from escaping). It sounds obvious to me that these rewards should be worth MUCH more reputation. I'd go as far as saying that they should get a ratio of 100% affinity to reputation (from about 0,35%). 

 

Additions of affinity bundles might be required for some objectives (like defending a whole 5 waves). There's also the matter of the Affinity Balls: While I think giving those a 100% ratio like above might be exagerated, I do think raising their ratio from the ~0,3% range they are in would make crate hunting more interesting. 

 

Second equalization: Expand the "challenge" system. Right now, we are given a single challenge per missions, and they vary between 1000 to 5000 affinity. The amount is very nice indeed, and already counts toward Reputation gain. What I suggest is that we add an expansion to the system, in the form of more challenges following the first one, which increases in complexity and reward, without focusing on combat prowess. 

 

I feel this would reward the players for going out of their comfort zone, and maybe help a bit non-endless missions. Except if it's more "Kill X amount". Then we're back at square one in term of equality. 

 

Third equalization: Tag and claim lockers or crates for your Syndicate. In a previous thread of mine, I suggested we add sigils that tolls collected resources (among other changes - see link if interested) and what I suggest here works from a similar tangent.

 

What I suggest is that we add a new item granted in the "offerings" of the Syndicate. This new item would be a blueprint giving access to a "tagging device". Each batch of built item would include 10 of said tagging device, and they would be used in the same manner that the specters are used currently (IE pokeball). When thrown, the device would scan a small (3-4 meters) radius around it for lockers and crate, and upon finding one (or more), the item will empty the content and use space magic to teleport the content of the container back to the syndicate, and reward to the player a given amount of reputation based on the content. 

 

This item would help make loot runs more worthy of a Tenno concerned with his reputation with so or so Syndicate, and will lead him to making tough decisions for "rare" containers (do I reap the benefit for myself only or do I donate it to my Syndicate?). 

 

-----

 

That is all. Feel free to comment on this thread or the other one linked above if you are interested. 

 

As always, thanks for reading. 

 

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Add a fixed amount of Syndicate rep, and a fixed reward for EVERY mission in the Solar System. And give the players a fairly large bonus when completing the solar system (a Sigil and possibly other cosmetics, and maybe even 5000-10000 rep).

 

This would actually give people incentive to play the non-endless missions on the highest maps, and also give them incentive to complete the Solar System.

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Yea we need more rep gain mechanics to favor different playstyles. The locker/box tagging idea is interesting, altho if we had to make a choice I'd rather have uncommon syndicate items from lockers/boxes that only spawn in the out of the way or hidden loot rooms. If the devs see fit to do both I'd be fine with that as well.

 

objective and bonus rewards including affinity orbs could definitely use some scaling as well as possibly bonus rep from special sources.

 

If you don't mind a long read this thread https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/340692-refining-the-syndicate-system/ has some fairly detailed discussion on expanding reputation and syndicate systems.

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Add a fixed amount of Syndicate rep, and a fixed reward for EVERY mission in the Solar System. And give the players a fairly large bonus when completing the solar system (a Sigil and possibly other cosmetics, and maybe even 5000-10000 rep).

 

This would actually give people incentive to play the non-endless missions on the highest maps, and also give them incentive to complete the Solar System.

 

My constant worry with this kind of reward for every missions ever is that the ugly monster of Rushing would rear it's head again. I get that my change for capture amounts to basically the same thing, but I still maintain a healthy dose of worry at that level. 

 

I think getting Reputation from completing the solar system would gimp players who did that arleady. 

 

Yea we need more rep gain mechanics to favor different playstyles. The locker/box tagging idea is interesting, altho if we had to make a choice I'd rather have uncommon syndicate items from lockers/boxes that only spawn in the out of the way or hidden loot rooms. If the devs see fit to do both I'd be fine with that as well.

 

objective and bonus rewards including affinity orbs could definitely use some scaling as well as possibly bonus rep from special sources.

 

If you don't mind a long read this thread https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/340692-refining-the-syndicate-system/ has some fairly detailed discussion on expanding reputation and syndicate systems.

 

I'll look at it at some point, but I'm not really in a read mood lately. Thanks for the reference. 

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The locker things sounds good but ill change to a daily mision. It will hive you 300-1000 rep depending on rank and also have caches, like the gatecrash event, so when u find the 3 caches u would get 1000-10000 rep. this may be some high numbers but taking into acount that from lv 3 to 4 its almos 80k rep and the good rewards are 25k they souds right to me.

 

sorry bad english :D

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The locker things sounds good but ill change to a daily mision. It will hive you 300-1000 rep depending on rank and also have caches, like the gatecrash event, so when u find the 3 caches u would get 1000-10000 rep. this may be some high numbers but taking into acount that from lv 3 to 4 its almos 80k rep and the good rewards are 25k they souds right to me.

 

sorry bad english :D

 

I see no reasons to exclude one of the options, they aren't really the same concept. We can have both a mission 100% dedicated to caches and the tagger on the side. 

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My constant worry with this kind of reward for every missions ever is that the ugly monster of Rushing would rear it's head again. I get that my change for capture amounts to basically the same thing, but I still maintain a healthy dose of worry at that level. 

 

I think getting Reputation from completing the solar system would gimp players who did that arleady. 

No it wouldn't, they could simply just automatically get the rep.

 

And if rushing could potentially be a problem, then maybe the rep you get for each mission could be put through a multiplier related to how many enemies you kill and the lockers you open and the pickups you gain. 

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No it wouldn't, they could simply just automatically get the rep.

 

And if rushing could potentially be a problem, then maybe the rep you get for each mission could be put through a multiplier related to how many enemies you kill and the lockers you open and the pickups you gain. 

 

The problem is how would it be distributed to the Syndicate? I have 3 sigils and equal number of supported Syndicate, and I might want to decide which one gets the affinity from the Solar Map. If the devs solve that issue in a satisfactory manner, I have no opposition to the idea.

 

I don't know what to do about rushing personally. People will always want to go fast and will try as hard as possible to do exactly that. I mostly just deal with it and think to myself it's not that bad... 

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My constant worry with this kind of reward for every missions ever is that the ugly monster of Rushing would rear it's head again. I get that my change for capture amounts to basically the same thing, but I still maintain a healthy dose of worry at that level. 

 

I think getting Reputation from completing the solar system would gimp players who did that arleady. 

 

 

I'll look at it at some point, but I'm not really in a read mood lately. Thanks for the reference. 

Rushing will always be an issue in some form or another. Endless/maximum enemy density nuking is basically just kill rushing as opposed to objective rushing. The goal isn't to play the game it's to get your objective/kills ASAP at all costs.

 

That's why I think we need a mixed system. Affinity to rep alone isn't that bad, the problem is that it only covers one aspect of the game and we have nothing else.

 

Rep for system/planet clears like the mastery for first time clears is questionable to me as well. As you said it sets up players to miss out by playing normally before they get involved in syndicates, which wouldn't be a good situation.

 

 

Also no rush, I've been there. As long as we keep up the feedback to let DE know what we want from our syndicates then hopefully the important stuff will get through.

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The problem is how would it be distributed to the Syndicate? I have 3 sigils and equal number of supported Syndicate, and I might want to decide which one gets the affinity from the Solar Map. If the devs solve that issue in a satisfactory manner, I have no opposition to the idea.

 

I don't know what to do about rushing personally. People will always want to go fast and will try as hard as possible to do exactly that. I mostly just deal with it and think to myself it's not that bad... 

One way to prevent rushing is to make lockers actually have valuable rewards. And to make maps less linear, that just inspires the instinct to rush. Lockers could be like look boxes in Borderlands, they could often drop uncommon mods and sometimes even a rare mod and a weapons BP.

 

And for your Syndicate problem, I'm not too sure what you mean...? How are you getting equal rep from 3 Syndicates (if that's what you're saying)?

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One way to prevent rushing is to make lockers actually have valuable rewards. And to make maps less linear, that just inspires the instinct to rush. Lockers could be like look boxes in Borderlands, they could often drop uncommon mods and sometimes even a rare mod and a weapons BP.

 

And for your Syndicate problem, I'm not too sure what you mean...? How are you getting equal rep from 3 Syndicates (if that's what you're saying)?

 

It's already a thing more or less, we now have the "rare" and "reinforced" lockers which are exceedingly hard to get but give very good loot. As far as I know it hasn't completely curbed rushing however.

 

I'm currently supporting Loka+Perrin and Arbiter. I have some extra work to do for arbiters but otherwise it works OK so long as I keep my focus on Loka and don't mingle with the other too much. Arbiters are low-ish priority compared to Loka, and Perrin is a side effect of Loka, so I just try to focus on Loka and Arbiter.

 

 

Rushing will always be an issue in some form or another. Endless/maximum enemy density nuking is basically just kill rushing as opposed to objective rushing. The goal isn't to play the game it's to get your objective/kills ASAP at all costs.

 

That's why I think we need a mixed system. Affinity to rep alone isn't that bad, the problem is that it only covers one aspect of the game and we have nothing else.

 

Rep for system/planet clears like the mastery for first time clears is questionable to me as well. As you said it sets up players to miss out by playing normally before they get involved in syndicates, which wouldn't be a good situation.

 

 

Also no rush, I've been there. As long as we keep up the feedback to let DE know what we want from our syndicates then hopefully the important stuff will get through.

 

Yeah rushing is a natural 'want' for players, that much I know. Now the question to me is whether it's worth curbing that specific aspect of the game or just go with the flow.

 

Mixed system sounds like the best thing indeed. 

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