Update 15.2.0

[---RNGesus---]

After reading all these replies I can at least say that either DE will change/remove the nerfs or players remove the game from PC. Still hoping for a good reply from DE which favors the players and the frames >.>

Edited November 13, 2014 by ---RNGesus---

[Siinon]

way to go ruining your own game DE, way to go, you just did the worst thing you could possibly do

[_Hyourinmaru_]

Im still waiting for some buffs to Limbo :\.. i actually bought that frame and im starting to regret it . It's completely useless at high tier missions such Survival T4 , you can't use any of his abilities without miserably dying  in the attempt to cast them/fully use them . Also, as far as i know, magnetic forces don't stop just because they find a wall in their way LOL so what's the point in nerfing shield polarize that way,did the corpus  install anti-polarizing devices inside every wall and we didn't know it ? Did we miss a meeting ? :D  stop  nerfing and start buffing . Fun in this game is starting to fade  with all these useless nerfs.

[BrazilianJoe]

I like Warframe, but I feel it has made a wrong turn. 

 

Changing interception to 'no neutral nodes' already goes a long way to avoid the infinite level-up issue, since enemies will grow to ludicrous power levels sooner, as the players can't be forever in a single message decode. 

 

Slapping LoS on every skill is the wrong way to go, especially on level 4 skills. 

I understand that level 1-2 skills should in most cases follow LoS. Perhaps there may be exceptions.

 

But level 4 skills? That's the usual oh-S#&$ button. If you make them less effective, you are just robbing the players of what makes Warframe unique, which are room-clearing awesome space ninja magic powers. 

 

You've gone such lengths to make Excalibur a top-tier again, And now you savagely ripped off his claws. Radial Javelin was nerfed to Radial Javelin MK-I. I could suggest you to buff damage if you plan to keep LoS in the ultimate power. But I really think level 4 skills need no explanation to go through walls.

 

In Mag's case, you should take another look at it, because she might need a buff somewhere else to compensate, or just plainly revert this change. Otherwise she will drop into the garbage bin. 

MAGNETISM. GOES. THROUGH. SOLID. OBJECTS. 

And Mag is supposed to be the best frame against Corpus/Shields.

 

In Trinity's case, as a support character, it would be better if you balanced the skill some other way. One possible compensation for this nerf is to make an enemy killed while the skill is active to drop an energy orb (besides the default loot). 

 

 

The amount of negative backlash is huge, and you should listen to your community, despite the fact that some people don't choose the best words for  it. 

 

Perhaps it's also a matter of bad communication. Do you plan to stick LoS to "every" direct damage skill (Crush, Miasma, etc)? Make it clear. But if you don't plan to do that, Excal needs its power back. Really. 

 

And make up for nerfing Mag and Trinity elsewhere, to make them more effective. 

 

 

Fleshing out ideas:

 

In terms of gameplay mechanics, I think it's OK for most 1 and 2 level skills to have the LoS limitation, but there should be room for exceptions as well. 

3 and 4 level skills (especially 4) should mostly fall into the 'Screw LoS' category. They are high-level, high-cost, and should affect a large number of targets, not so much contingent on geometry. 

 

It's space magic. Needs good gameplay moreso than scentific explanations. 

 

In this sense, limiting Mag's shield polarize and Trinity's energy vampire can even have some consistency. The problem is that these paremeters shouldn't be a one size fits all thing. 

 

Trinity as a support frame should be more useful than tailgating a single damage-dealing frame to give him energy. It should be better than that. LoS on her skill hits too hard on her utility, and she is supposed to be ALL TEAM utility/survivability. 

 

So, all in all I think it was not the best solution. Now, how to counter trinity's nerf so that she can be a better TEAM support. 

 

Solution 1) Give the target a weak effect on top of the current mechanic. The skill could activate an 'Energy Aura' effect on the target. No range limit like the Warframe's Aura, but a weak replenishing effect. The current LoS would still do large energy replenishment bursts. 

 

Solution 2) Change the skill back to what it was, and add 2 changes: 

a) Add a falloff for the energy replenishment.

b) Increase default range so that it is still useful when the player is more than 10 meters away. 

 

Either change makes her still useful in close quarters, without the all-or-nothing LoS mechanics which cut down her utility so bad. I prefer option 2), as long as the range is decent to guarantee the skill is effective. 

 

Mag:

 

Magnetism goes through wall, but for the sake of balanced gameplay she can have her shield polarize changed to LoS. Still, it makes the frame just plainly weaker. Now let me counter that with some added feature(s) to the power, so that she gains back some relevance:

 

Shield Polarize will affect Auras too. if the enemy has no shields but has an Aura, it will be affected.

 

Crucial mechanics:

Option 1) If the enemy has shields and Aura, it will be affected twice. Shields will be depleted before Auras can be damaged. If Aura's HP get down to 0%, it explodes like the shields do. 

Option 2) Shields and Aura 'HP' will be a single pool and enemy only explodes after aura 'HP' is depleted too. 

 

Common mechanics:

Since auras can't be damaged at all, they will all have 50% the target's HP for the purposes of this skill (because not all Aura wielding enemies have shields, base off HP). 

 

It will use the shield replenishment mechanics to regenerate. The Aura only reactivates after its 'HP' completely regenerates. The Aura cannot be targeted by this skill again until it reactivates (this is supposed to help enemies, to prevent excess Aura boom-boom). 

 

Excalibur:

 

Level 4 skill. Univers rulez shoodan't aplye. Because GAME and AWESOME VOID POWERS.

 

DE, if you plan to do a LoS pass on everything, I ask you to MAKE IT OFFICIAL. Just hammering Excal like you did was bad, and maybe the fault lies squarely in poor communication. Are you going to do a LoS-pass everywhere? Is it in your 'vision' of the game? Make it official. 

But don't just barge into may house and scream 'YOUR MAMA IS DEAD' like this. Prepare the terrain so that we expect the changes. 

 

I really really (insert the really word here a thousand times) think that level 4 skills should not be hindered by LoS issues as the norm. Excalibur was nerfed hard and ugly, just as it was becoming good again. 

 

My take on Radial Javelin:

 

1) Just revert it. It was/is not necessary to nerf his skill at all. It was a good, competitive frame. Super Jump is still lacking a bit, in the light of all the mobility improvements the game just had. Now Excalibur is bach into meh-land again. 

 

2) If you are intent in keeping LoS (bad mistake):

a) Make all 3 damage types of the skill proc with 100% chance. Since it will hit less targets, it should gimp them harder. Perhaps a damage buff is in order as well. 

b) Make 'LoS' consider only HARD GEOMETRY, not SOFT COVER. In other words, the 'targeting' logic (i.e. what is in line-of-sight for RJ?) would have 'infinite punch-through'. Stuff which can't be penetrated by punch through AT ALL (there's plenty of that) would be LoS, but nothing else. The 'is enemy aware of excal?' should make it vulnerable to RJ regardless of LoS too.

 

Please consider.

Edited November 13, 2014 by BrazilianJoe

[Thunder_Chief]

Well you had to know the Viver farm wasn't going to last forever.  :P

 

Sure, it's just too bad that some of us did not find out about it until the day before it was nerfed, only to check it out with a group that did not know how to "get it to work". Walked out with only 565 Standing. :-\

 

Was wondering how in the hell people were selling weapon and ability augment mods on the market, when I had not even reached Rank 2. Sure, I have not been able to put in as many hours per day as I did last year, but does that mean they have no life? Some, maybe. Most, nope... Exploit. Great.

 

Feels like I am changing lanes from a slow lane into a slower lane during rush hour.

 

At least I was able to forma Maggy P's aura slot to the CORRECT Bar aura and re-max her before this gargantuan nerf. Can't imagine how long it would take missing out on all those kills from behind walls. Oh, wait... that was Pull...

 

(DE pulls nerf-hammer back out of drawer.)

 

:rolleyes:

 

And could it be that Trinity has completely replaced Ember as DE's whipping girl???

 

<heavy sigh>

[GTG3000]

What the hell, DE? Just because you have a nice, shiny new hammer labeled "Line of Sight", it doesn't mean that everything really IS a nail.

 

LOS EV? LOS Shield Polarize? This makes even less sence than the horrible Archwing weapons, and you better be realizing this.

 

Sure, Viver was used to potential, but that's not a reason to make two perfectly good abilities into clumsy rubbish, seeing how well LoS works in your game, all it does is making support usability tremendously unreliable now that you have to make absolutely sure nothing stands between you and whoever you want to restore energy/shield for. PLEASE think next time? Kneejerk reactions are already covered by forums.

[susumihajime]

I am a Japanese who is playing warframe.

 

About this Nerf of EXCALIBUR, I am troubled with an understanding.

In what kind of idea is DE really adjusted?

Why did it become adjustment of such Radial Javelin having argued only about that by the overseas forum?

A meaning was not made at all by this Nerf, but it has returned to the bad former situation.

 

Former EXCALIBUR was in the situation where capability is low and does not go into the choice of a player.

The usual play could use at last by previous capability adjustment,

and it was only set to frame which is also a high level and as for which a grade can do its best.

 

I thought that the time when it could use fully at last for the player which has liked and used EXCALIBUR long came.

It was expected that the adjustment perfectly set to other unfortunate frames,

such as FROST and TRINITY, probably entered as it is, and the choice of a play spread.

 

However, this adjustment betrayed the expectation.

 

I think whether this Nerf is the measures against point acquisition of a syndicate clearly.

It is solved by adjustment of ERIS interception.
And point acquisition of the syndicate which is a core of the problem only needs to be adjusted fundamental.
It is not narrowing how to play with a player by shallow-brained and simple adjustment,

or making spent time and property into nothing.

 

I think that simple adjustment of the purpose of prolonging

such contents' life is a really dangerous act while a new player is also increasing.

Please give me very delicately the adjustment in which the choice of a player spreads as much as possible.

[BradKing]

 

Update 15.2.0

 

Warframe Changes:

 

• Banish / Rift Walk will no longer stack energy regeneration when used on targets in a Cataclysm bubble.

Interception:

 

• Points can no longer sit neutral, they must be owned by either AI or players
• Score now scaled directly by the number of points you have, instead of being reduced if the AI owns more.
• Abandoned points (eg. was capturing but left point before completing the capture) now start to drain faster (5 seconds after leaving from 10 seconds) and drain back to the original state far quicker (at a rate of 25% per second)
• Updated all point prefabs so the points will start captured by the AI and must be taken by the player, score does not start accruing until a player captures a point

 

This would have fixed your perceived problem with Viver. 

 

This:

• Excalibur’s Radial Javelin and Mag’s Shield Polarize will now check for line of sight when targeting enemies.
• Trinity’s Energy Vampire now only benefits teammates who can see or can be seen by the targeted victim (victims remember who they have seen for a short duration).

just makes these 3 frames not used any more by the community at large. I can't help but think that the same devs I've been following for so long are now doing this, not because they believe in it, but it feels like it almost has to come from our new Chinese overlords, yes I went there, your 1000+ hour gamers obviously also have knee-jerk reactions.

 

For me this is either a horrible knee-jerk reaction to the wrong thing (I hope this is the case, since it was already implemented without apparent testing, mag not being able to shield polarize herself and such), or, the start of a new way of the warframe, where everything is LoS and rush tank based: if you just want us to play Rhino and Valkyr tell us.. that's already all we get to play for archwing..

 

Thanks for the fixes I guess, shame about the many game-breaking issues still open :( *sad panda*

[ZeGreymane]

Just a question, why nerf Excalibur/mag to avoid Vivier abuse when you fix interception logic + infinite energie glitch from trinity/limbo?

 

Excalibur will don't do a lot of radial spam without energie.

Mag... Perhaps style can, but not as efficient for an heavy farm, all robotic still alive after many spam. Got to use ultime -> no energie,

 

A lot of player haven't never heard of the vivier glitch, how can they understand that this 2 frame got and huge nerf of their main dps?

 

Vivier is fixed just with interception new logic (totally agree with that change) + energie regen fixed

 

Fix limbo regen stack -> more than legit, a bit sad cause it was fun and my last main use of him (and not only on vivier)

Another Trinity's nerf -> well, poor trinity, too much nerf-hammer on her face but.... Start to be used, perahps the next frame I put in the trash...

 

Just hope "the keep in memory players seen" will not ruin the few fps we have gain by losing mod >50.

 

So conclusion

To nerf a glitch used by -25% of players and less (in my large and random opinion)

 

- No more than 50 mod can be on the floor (problematic in survival where players will not stay together).

- Excalibur main DPS -> nerfed

- Mag and anticorpus main skill -> nerf to the ground

- Limbo fixed (but just for that, other problem ignored)

- Trinity stomped through floor by all nerf taken

 

Well, don't miss with DE guys or we will play to sims in 2 month...

Stop seek smart way to farm 500K standing on a game you already spend more than 2000hours....

 

Ps:

Just a summup of most of players feeling (imho),

I personnaly see 3 old hl member of my clan how stop warframe disgusting by this...

Hope they will got a reason to come back....

 

PS2 : At least, thanks for the nyx's mind control new logic.

Havn't tried it yet, but I hope the mind controlled ennemis will not have a priority target anymore (decoy style), 2nd reason to see him die too fast to be used as mate in HL.

Edited November 13, 2014 by ZeGreymane

[r00r1]

Dear Girls and Guys at DE, as I reading these not-so-satisfied comments, I want to save Warframe from the inevitable end, so here is my offer:

Currently I working as a Facility Manager and CI Program Coordinator in EMEA region, at an american company.

 

I really want to do something for your company, so IF you hire me for the canadian minimum wage, I can guarantee to put in order this mess, currently called Warframe in about 3 months (IF things won't be improved at a short notice, feel free to fire me). 

 

For me currently it seems you doesn't know where to step forward (this update is a classic example about the lack of the technical knowledge - root cause analysis)...

[DualPsiioniic]

A mag nerf, and i'd just finished my massive aoe mag prime build...

Thanks guys... :(

[Lyla]

Nerfing 3 WF at once and changing Interception for the sake of one node it's really not the smartest idea that you could come up.
Above all, this will not solve the real problem: the grind behind Reputation Points and Syndicate. The problem are not the WF used to farm Viver, the problem is the time you have to spend for farming Rep Points and Viver could make it possible in a reasonable amount of time.

[ShireDB]

 

• Excalibur’s Radial Javelin and Mag’s Shield Polarize will now check for line of sight when targeting enemies.

 

Thanks for nerfing Excalibur for everybody, when it was really only one mission that was a problem.

[Random286]

I spent 6 forma a potato and over 200 plat on alt helmets, immortal skin and proto skin for Excalibur and then he gets nerfed.

[Tenno_Immemorial]

I could write a wall of text, but I think my feelings are well represented by the previous 41 pages. So, I will just say, thank you DE. Why thanks? Because you just saved me spending what amounts to a days wages on the next prime access, which I was planning to buy if I didn't get a 50%/75% discount before then.  Thankfully, I leave this game having only spent around £12 which for the few months of gaming I got is a fair deal.

 

With these past few updates it has become evident that you are all too happy to nerf aspects of the game that do not addressed core issues to ensure the grind wall's are maintained. I can already see after the 50 mod cap, and the frame nerfs that we will soon be seeing LoS nerfs for Rhino, Volt and Sayrn since these are the frames Viver farmers are using after this update.

 

After all, players will continue to find ways to minimise the grind and on the evidence of this and previous updates, rather than addressing the issue we will just get more nerfs on anything that amounts to a viable tactic on the affected nodes.  How long will this continue? Until all we are left with are warframes with vastly compromised abilities?

 

We had a good run, thanks for the great game!

[Ritchel]

d.e. needs a focus group or something for a surefire way to buff frames to make it FUN and useful.
but idk. ive lost interest to this game since the frost nerf for his last ability to opt out CC, seems whoever makes the decision in ability changes is still there and will keep on giving bad decisions for this game. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by Ritchel

[EHDERCOOLSTE]

I didn't even play on Viver and when I read the changelog I just was like "Oh a new quest, maybe I'll give it a shot". BUT then I saw the changes to the Warframes...Another three warframes that are useless now, may they rot next to my banshee and ember.

 

^That is because nobody from the actual dev team plays the game. 

Edited November 13, 2014 by EHDERCOOLSTE

[MagPrime]

I'm sad about the Mag nerf.  I can understand LoS for RJ, but Shield Pol.?  It's a magnetic wave, don't those things go through walls?  

[MichaelSD]

For me currently it seems you doesn't know where to step forward (this update is a classic example about the lack of the technical knowledge - root cause analysis)...

 

Exactly my feelings too.

[Kaminaught]

My guts were trying to tell me something, but I could not say what.

Now I know why I stopped buying platinum and prime accesses since 14.0.

I even left to rot many 20% and at least 3x 50% platinum discounts.

 

I've never farmed rep on Viver, but I am not very happy with this update ... and the previous ones.

It's getting worse and worse.

 

It's time to find another game where fun is because it is less and less in WF.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Kaminaught

[--Q--XFA]

How come they are VERY VERY VERY VERY fast in fixing exploits

and when it comes to fixing old bugs and glitches they are VERY VERY VERY VERY.... VERY... slow

[2rei]

agree

 

 

My guts were trying to tell me something, but I could not say what.

Now I know why I stopped buying platinum and prime accesses since 14.0.

I even left to rot many 20% and at least 3x 50% platinum discounts.

 

I've never farmed rep on Viver, but I am not very happy with this update ... and the previous ones.

It's getting worse and worse.

 

It's time to find another game where fun is because it is less and less in WF.

 

agree

[h3d0n1St1k]

worst update so far

[unkown]

I did not read all posts up until now but so if anyone already said this I am sorry.

But is it only me or does every nerf just take away a part of the fun in this game? .. I mean couldn`t they just say they made a mistake with Viver and just nerf the spawn instead of nerfing perfectly fine warframes that people mayenjoy playing but with this nerfs they probbably just lost any interest to continue playing this game?

And i have now 1k+ hours in 3 and a half months .. and I am really liking this game .. but just like with neverwinter from my experience .. once the nerfs started many people start to leave, and I have to take a break from this game now too until DE gets some ideas on how to actualy make the game more fun and not just nerf without brains ..

 

with best regards

[Pendragonn]

DE, I honestly did not like the changes in warframes.
I wonder what you really want to do with the game.

My sincere advice on the game are increasingly vague, try to show your friends that the game has potential to be great.

I think the general consensus is that players no one wants a game that you have to take months or years to level a syndicate, the maps were being used to save time, were scrambled to "interrupt" the farm reputation.

If the map is the real problem, or the amount of mobs that spawn in it, other methods can be used to leave the farm easier reputation, or leave it fixed node in the map, example: a map low level can give reputation X and map Y level considered high reputation; being that we only depend-daily for leveling the reputation we are bound to leveling long missions we already know every detail of both that did.

I really hope that these changes are reviewed.