Update 15.2.0

[Toran]

Just finish the job, DE and make this game an ordinary shooter :D

I can see the urge for a change. You simply could have changed small area interception missions to other mission types or transformed em into larger maps.

Instead you pulled the nerf-mace again. This patch feels all like puppy-training.

Don't behave? Feel the consequences!

Edited November 13, 2014 by Toran

[Ged4]

 

• Removed Neural Sensor Requirements from Large Restore Crafting Recipes.

 

Thank you very much DE :)

Now Please tell me, this extends to ALL the large team restores?!?

IE, have u removed all the rare resourse requirements from all the large team restores?

 

 

Yes, i just check my Large Team Energy Restore and now requires 500 polymer instead of 2 morphics. (+3000 nano spores)

[Zdravko]

Warframe Changes:

 

• Excalibur’s Radial Javelin and Mag’s Shield Polarize will now check for line of sight when targeting enemies.
• Trinity’s Energy Vampire now only benefits teammates who can see or can be seen by the targeted victim (victims remember who they have seen for a short duration).

why dont you change the "Radial Javelin" in to "Bullcrap Javelin" cuz... its not Radial now at all... i made my Excalibur once more just cuz he kicks ars now... but not anymore... now your making me delete him AGAIN!... aaaah... the PAIN!

and that change for Trinity... wtf? O_o...

[VaironOmega]

Really? I mean really? Instead of trying to fix viver's tileset or the affinity system, you guys from DE decided to nerf "4" freaking frames? Trinity has always beed ignored, Mag was OK with her powers, Excalibur was beginning to be better and more balanced before this nerf.

What's next? Are you guys going to nerf Saryn, Ember, Nova as well?

Plz revert these changes, find another solution for this before this game becomes broken.

Don't break the game you put so much love in.

[Bundii]

Edited November 13, 2014 by Bundii

[Hala]

Just like most other people I really don't get the point of nerfing the warframes, trinity in particular.

Instead of adressing that one missions is extremely unbalanced in the player's favour, and the comparatively few people that actually ran it, you bring out the nerf hammer on the warframes instead of the mission in question and screw over EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, instead.

 

Is this your idea of balancing? To destroy gameplay for the whole community to remedy what a few users do? A situation that could have been better solved with just 5 minutes of brain storming instead of the first dumb idea that comes to mind?

 

No, instead you do the same thing again, that you have been criticized massively before by the forum for doing. 

 

Are you seriously this incompetent? Are you that afraid to loose control over how people enjoy your game in unintended ways that you feel you have to punish everyone in the process of getting to those few players?

 

We all knew there was a nerf coming, but leave it to the professionals to do it in the most incompetent way possible.

[youmustbejoking]

archwing completion quest on mentos is ruined. plz bring back our suits so we don't have to walk on foot in space. it sounds ridiculous because it is.

[Rompido]

idea from:   https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/344634-mastery-rank-is-basically-a-form-of-reputation-so/

 

 

basically the higher mastery you have, the higher rep you gain with Syndicates. 

 

 

this can go a really long way into giving meaning towards having a high mastery rank.  it's not like you can unlock any new weapons after mastery rank ( 6-8? )

[adarazrad]

Like excal isnt nerfed enough....

[-MK-Forever]

De честно говоря обновления дерьмо, Зачем вы постоянно фиксите фреймов они вам что жить мешают? В место того чтобы их делать сильней вы их в мусор для ранга  переделываете прокачал и выкинул! Кто ими не умеет играть вы тех нытиков и слушаете нытиков по чьей прозби вы их в мусор превращаете, Раньше игра была интирестнней чем

щас после каждого фикса фрейм всё слабей и слабей аж играть не охота,

[Kasumi-]

Like Trinity isnt nerfed enough....

fixed

[Cpl.Hicks]

Excalibur was  playable warframe for  short time. Now again useless. That same Mag and Trinity. 

[NightBeats]

I took a small break until a few days ago and I'm not really in a rush to boost my Syndicate rank, so I haven't done any Viver farming. Thus, the Interception changes don't really bother me. The only thing on the change list that bothers me is the line-of-sight change to Excal's Radial Javelin. That really really sucks. Hard.

 

I will say, however, that there has always been a bit of a mismatch between the dev's expectations of how long content should last and the expectations of the community. I've been playing since the Steam release and I have heard Steve admit surprise a few times at how fast some players were completing recently released content. The devs don't want players reaching the highest Syndicate rank in a week, I'm sure, but the players don't want it to take months either. There's a disconnect there and there always has been.

 

DE have access to numbers I don't obviously, so now that Viver has been removed as the most effective reputation farm, they will have to watch how fast/slow the reputation grind becomes and make changes accordingly. Hopefully, they can reach a compromise between their own desires for how long it should take and those of the community.

 

I also think they should look at some of the complaints of people who were farming Viver in terms of how fun it was. The nerf has effectively removed a "fun" section of the game for a lot of people and DE should look at why it was fun and how to replicate it elsewhere, in a manner that they don't disagree with.

 

I'm sure this will be addressed in the Friday dev stream, so I look forward hearing the team respond!

 

 

P.S. Please reconsider the LoS change to Radial Javelin. As someone who mains his Excal Prime, I have always thought that Javelin was an underpowered ultimate - it just isn't strong enough at higher levels to be effective. The "it now briefly stuns enemies" change was very welcome for some added utility, but now that it needs line of sight, it is back to being underpowered and not worth using at higher levels. Just my two cents.

Edited November 13, 2014 by NightBeats

[Boylee]

The frames weren't the problem here. The problem is the syndicate grind is just dull for veteran players. Players of Eagle level mastery and upwards will find optimum reputation farming spots, no matter what. Farming isn't fun, people do it because it's efficient.

 

However, nerfing frames that were fairly well balanced, and certainly well loved, is not the way to fix this issue. These nerfs are so rushed that DE didn't even check them properly. Mag can no longer restore her own shields with Shield Polarize.  "Why?" you ask, presumably a bit of broken LoS logic, but it doesn't matter. What does matter is that it indicates a rush to put a bandaid on a broken mechanic.

 

If you want to quickly address the Viver syndrome, then change that location to something else, like a Hive mission. Alternatively, tweak the tile or it's spawn points. The control point change (no more neutral state) was actually a good example of a tweak that makes it harder to farm Viver and I approve of that approach, but DE clearly didn't think it was enough.

 

Here's the critical bit though:

Players have already found alternative rep farming setups with different frames. Should we expect to see another round of frame nerfs next week to address the revised Viver tactics?

 

Make it easier for Vets to garner rep for syndicates and this all goes away. Maybe make reputation scale with mastery via a multiplier based on your mastery rank. Or perhaps every time players hit a new mastery level you could give them a "rep bomb" they can dump into any faction they choose. Either way the problem here is that veteran players don't want to have to pour in hundreds more hours of the same content to get access to the newest stuff. That sort of grind is fine if you're just starting out, you naturally have hundreds of hours of play in front of you, not so much when those hours are already behind you. Make it so vets can see tangible progress toward the new stuff without having to farm and no-one will bother with it.

 

TL;DR: Frame nerfs were a bad idea. They don't fix the cause of the Viver syndrome and they just irk people. 

[Rompido]

Just like most other people I really don't get the point of nerfing the warframes, trinity in particular.

Instead of adressing that one missions is extremely unbalanced in the player's favour, and the comparatively few people that actually ran it, you bring out the nerf hammer on the warframes instead of the mission in question and screw over EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, instead.

 

Is this your idea of balancing? To destroy gameplay for the whole community to remedy what a few users do? A situation that could have been better solved with just 5 minutes of brain storming instead of the first dumb idea that comes to mind?

 

No, instead you do the same thing again, that you have been criticized massively before by the forum for doing. 

 

Are you seriously this incompetent? Are you that afraid to loose control over how people enjoy your game in unintended ways that you feel you have to punish everyone in the process of getting to those few players?

 

We all knew there was a nerf coming, but leave it to the professionals to do it in the most incompetent way possible.

 

 

LOL!  I would say something along those lines. but I'm already on my second warning point.   :(

 

I concur with you so very much. this "fix" of theres seems to have really been so poorly thought out. I'm sure they will say something on the dev stream about "oh those frames needed those nerfs, it wasn't because of viver" 

 

there is only 1 real thing any company will listen to if they choose to ignore their customers wants and needs, and that is the power of the $.

[ralf2k7]

wow *slow claps*

DE you did it again, you just #*($%%@ up the game again, like last fall with the gamebreaking bugs and the crypting from the voidrewardtables etc.

but this time you cant just give us all 50plat and writing a sad letter about how weak the updates and hotfixes were and how that youre so sorry about all happenend was

[Tomcat]

No, no, no.

You guys don't understand.

DE doesn't want to soften up the Syndicate Farm, or any other grind wall in particular.

Because of this massive syndicate grind, DE is hoping for better sales on platinum and prime packages.

That's just a huge statement of "F*** You" to the entire playerbase.

I was really intrigued by the road WF started taking back in U14, but now it's a certainty to me.

DE doesn't care about their playerbase anymore.

 

So what they are going to do is try to milk this cashcow for the longest possible period of time and most probably will start to think about a new project/game.

[BrazilianJoe]

Fleshing out ideas:

 

 

In terms of gameplay mechanics, I think it's OK for most 1 and 2 level skills to have the LoS limitation, but there should be room for exceptions as well. 

3 and 4 level skills (especially 4) should mostly fall into the 'Screw LoS' category. They are high-level, high-cost, and should affect a large number of targets, not so much contingent on geometry. 

 

It's space magic. Needs good gameplay moreso than scentific explanations. 

 

In this sense, limiting Mag's shield polarize and Trinity's energy vampire can even have some consistency. The problem is that these paremeters shouldn't be a one size fits all thing. 

 

Trinity as a support frame should be more useful than tailgating a single damage-dealing frame to give him energy. It should be better than that. LoS on her skill hits too hard on her utility, and she is supposed to be ALL TEAM utility/survivability. 

 

So, all in all I think it was not the best solution. Now, how to counter trinity's nerf so that she can be a better TEAM support. 

 

Solution 1) Give the target a weak effect on top of the current mechanic. The skill could activate an 'Energy Aura' effect on the target. No range limit like the Warframe's Aura, but a weak replenishing effect. The current LoS would still do large energy replenishment bursts. 

 

Solution 2) Change the skill back to what it was, and add 2 changes: 

a) Add a falloff for the energy replenishment.

b) Increase default range so that it is still useful when the player is more than 10 meters away. 

 

Either change makes her still useful in close quarters, without the all-or-nothing LoS mechanics which cut down her utility so bad. I prefer option 2), as long as the range is decent to guarantee the skill is effective. 

 

Mag:

 

Magnetism goes through wall, but for the sake of balanced gameplay she can have her shield polarize changed to LoS. Still, it makes the frame just plainly weaker. Now let me counter that with some added feature(s) to the power, so that she gains back some relevance:

 

Shield Polarize will affect Auras too. if the enemy has no shields but has an Aura, it will be affected.

 

Crucial mechanics:

Option 1) If the enemy has shields and Aura, it will be affected twice. Shields will be depleted before Auras can be damaged. If Aura's HP get down to 0%, it explodes like the shields do. 

Option 2) Shields and Aura 'HP' will be a single pool and enemy only explodes after aura 'HP' is depleted too. 

 

Common mechanics:

Since auras can't be damaged at all, they will all have 50% the target's HP for the purposes of this skill (because not all Aura wielding enemies have shields, base off HP). 

 

It will use the shield replenishment mechanics to regenerate. The Aura only reactivates after its 'HP' completely regenerates. The Aura cannot be targeted by this skill again until it reactivates (this is supposed to help enemies, to prevent excess Aura boom-boom). 

 

Excalibur:

 

Level 4 skill. Univers rulez shoodan't aplye. Because GAME and AWESOME VOID POWERS.

 

DE, if you plan to do a LoS pass on everything, I ask you to MAKE IT OFFICIAL. Just hammering Excal like you did was bad, and maybe the fault lies squarely in poor communication. Are you going to do a LoS-pass everywhere? Is it in your 'vision' of the game? Make it official. 

But don't just barge into may house and scream 'YOUR MAMA IS DEAD' like this. Prepare the terrain so that we expect the changes. 

 

I really really (insert the really word here a thousand times) think that level 4 skills should not be hindered by LoS issues as the norm. Excalibur was nerfed hard and ugly, just as it was becoming good again. 

 

My take on Radial Javelin:

 

1) Just revert it. It was/is not necessary to nerf his skill at all. It was a good, competitive frame. Super Jump is still lacking a bit, in the light of all the mobility improvements the game just had. Now Excalibur is bach into meh-land again. 

 

2) If you are intent in keeping LoS (bad mistake):

a) Make all 3 damage types of the skill proc with 100% chance. Since it will hit less targets, it should gimp them harder. Perhaps a damage buff is in order as well. 

b) Make 'LoS' consider only HARD GEOMETRY, not SOFT COVER. In other words, the 'targeting' logic (i.e. what is in line-of-sight for RJ?) would have 'infinite punch-through'. Stuff which can't be penetrated by punch through AT ALL (there's plenty of that) would be LoS, but nothing else. The 'is enemy aware of excal?' should make it vulnerable to RJ regardless of LoS too.

 

 

Please consider.

 

 

The major problem I see here is that you are sticking with the root problem instead of fixing it: basing Syndicate rep straight off XP gain. This is the core of the problem, and this is also what is making people play only in the most effective XP farm.

 

You are breaking your game/frames because of this broken mechanic, making them weaker/less reliable in gameplay, and this is alienating your player base. The amount of negative feedback is "over 9000" in the forums. 

 

Usually when I go to Steam stats during the day, I see Warframe with a 20k player peak on weekdays. Right now there are 14k current players and a 17.5k peak. I'll check again in the afternoon. It seems worse than usual. http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=english

 

Let me reinforce the message: The problem is not with the Warframes. The problem is not with Viver. You have solved the interception exploit: There are no neutral points, so you can't kill an infinite number of enemies at the same level anymore. 

 

Now the real homework is to change Syndicate rep mechanics, otherwise you will just keep breaking/nerfing/blanding Warframe into a generic shooter with unreliable magic. Because veterans will keep looking for ways to farm efficiently. Veterans should be held in high regard, and they are feeling like they are being ignored for the dedication they gave/give to the game. They help building a community and holding it together, but right now, too many feel like DE is Nero telling them to burn Rome. And they are burning. 

 

So, give us a little confidence. Listen to us. Revert the power changes, let's look for alternative solutions. 

 

Open these issues to the input of the Design Council, which is a more sober set of the community. Let a more filtered feedback get in. 

[Rompido]

small bit of trivia.

 

the only time a update has gotten over 40 pages of replies was update 10.5.0

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122841-update-1050-the-gradivus-dilemma/

[warp_cat]

poor trinity, she again nerf    т_т

[Dr_Someone]

small bit of trivia.

 

the only time a update has gotten over 40 pages of replies was update 10.5.0

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122841-update-1050-the-gradivus-dilemma/

Yeah, but in that particular case those were the positive comments :)

[RoninJed]

Right before this update went live the red text (claims) said the people have spoken. Well the people have spoken (and are still speaking:) and don't seem to approve of this update. The game is in beta still and DE listens to the community right?

Edited November 13, 2014 by RoninJed

[SheekLP]

I ask me why you guys post it here.. DE dont care about what you write ONLY cause of 1 MISSION they nerfed 4 Frames what statement you see here? They give a F*** of the players. I Mean Line of sight? Hello? If the Corpus on Viver see you 1-2 Sec's to long your'e death trins heal 1 time and then she have a timer... Great Job DE. But why i complain? DE never will read this or care about this also waiste of Time..

[Ravensaurus]

 

Update 15.2.0

 

Warframe Changes:

• Excalibur’s Radial Javelin and Mag’s Shield Polarize will now check for line of sight when targeting enemies.
• Trinity’s Energy Vampire now only benefits teammates who can see or can be seen by the targeted victim (victims remember who they have seen for a short duration).

 

 

I understand why Radial Blind was affected by the line of sight change. But this is unreasonable if you want to know my opinion.

Nerfing one of the two useful abilities of Mag (Crush is an only damage 4th with a bit an enemy 'stasis' stage and Bullet attractor needs some tweaking) is a bad decision. She desperately needs some buff because she is only good against Corpus but nothing else. And also, since when magnetism cannot pass objects? And more than half of the objects in Warframe are metals...

 

For Radial Javeling... I consider it as a one step forward and two step back. I mean... What's the point of the new mechanics if is it line of sight? If you decide to go this way then bring back the old animation, because it was much better visually (in my opinion). And basically Javelin is now only better than it's former self because no max targets and stun. But line of sight is hurting the unlimited target thing a bit... So the buff was nerfed and Excal is worse than ever and sitting on the 'low-mid tier' place. 

 

And Energy Vampire... Why on Earth the target needs to se me when I want to get my energy? Do I need his/her permission or what? It is a nonsense. I force it to produce energy while I slowly steal its life away in a painful procedure. And energy is everywhere and can pass through any object. So the old mechanic was WAY better and made SENSE. Seriously, what is next? Will Ash need to ask a Heavy Gunner kindly so she permits him to murder her with a Bladestorm? Or will Loki need to do hand to hand combat with a Bombard to steal his Ogris and replace it with that electric stick?

Edited November 13, 2014 by Ravensaurus

[warp_cat]

I ask me why you guys post it here.. DE dont care about what you write ONLY cause of 1 MISSION they nerfed 4 Frames what statement you see here? They give a F*** of the players. I Mean Line of sight? Hello? If the Corpus on Viver see you 1-2 Sec's to long your'e death trins heal 1 time and then she have a timer... Great Job DE. But why i complain? DE never will read this or care about this also waiste of Time..

when another frames get big points for sindicats, DE nerf it. >_>