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Update 15.2.0


[DE]Rebecca
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I'm rather rapidly getting to the point where this game is losing my support.

 

 

I can see nerfing a power, a map, or a drop rate.  We're on update 15, and there are still huge problems related to the developer nerfing all three things at once to end an "exploit," and subsequently breaking large sections of the game.  Assuming that DE is actually listening:

 

1) If you make end game content rely on such numerous amounts of grind, don't be surprised when people "cheat" to lessen it.  A little grind is fun, two months of grind is not.

2) What makes a warframe unique should be preserved at all costs.  When three or more frames have functionally useless powers, and bland stats, they aren't unique.  The effort and resources that go into making them are lost, and you have lopped off a section of the content you created.  That kind of loss is stupid.

 

3) Stop adding content, fiddling with it, and winding up with only minor changes.  It takes immense resources to get syndicate rewards, and the highest tier rewards are warframe mods.  If you require a huge grind to get the mods, then nerf the associated frames, you've done work twice and the results are no real change.

4) Develope a stable and reasonable release.  I'm tired of the same bugs coming up again and again.  If I tallied up the missions in which an enemy spawned behind me, in a "cleared" room, I'm sure they'd account for 10% of my play throughs.  Between that, game breaking bugs with the loot drop system, poor multi-player interactions due to latency, and passing through "solid" walls I've seen no benefit to new content.

 

 

I've got a bunch of other complaints, but these are the big ones.  Perhaps DE could catch their breath, release a non-beta version of this game, and start releasing updates that are complete in the future.  I'm willing to wait 6 weeks for updates, assuming the updates work from the start.  If they continue to release half finished new content there's no reason to get excited until a couple of hot fixes have been released.

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I'm rather rapidly getting to the point where this game is losing my support.

 

 

I can see nerfing a power, a map, or a drop rate.  We're on update 15, and there are still huge problems related to the developer nerfing all three things at once to end an "exploit," and subsequently breaking large sections of the game.  Assuming that DE is actually listening:

 

1) If you make end game content rely on such numerous amounts of grind, don't be surprised when people "cheat" to lessen it.  A little grind is fun, two months of grind is not.

2) What makes a warframe unique should be preserved at all costs.  When three or more frames have functionally useless powers, and bland stats, they aren't unique.  The effort and resources that go into making them are lost, and you have lopped off a section of the content you created.  That kind of loss is stupid.

 

3) Stop adding content, fiddling with it, and winding up with only minor changes.  It takes immense resources to get syndicate rewards, and the highest tier rewards are warframe mods.  If you require a huge grind to get the mods, then nerf the associated frames, you've done work twice and the results are no real change.

4) Develope a stable and reasonable release.  I'm tired of the same bugs coming up again and again.  If I tallied up the missions in which an enemy spawned behind me, in a "cleared" room, I'm sure they'd account for 10% of my play throughs.  Between that, game breaking bugs with the loot drop system, poor multi-player interactions due to latency, and passing through "solid" walls I've seen no benefit to new content.

 

 

I've got a bunch of other complaints, but these are the big ones.  Perhaps DE could catch their breath, release a non-beta version of this game, and start releasing updates that are complete in the future.  I'm willing to wait 6 weeks for updates, assuming the updates work from the start.  If they continue to release half finished new content there's no reason to get excited until a couple of hot fixes have been released.

Couldn't say it better.

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Please De Revert the changes to Excalibur,Mag and Trinity. You maimed 3 frames that already got hit pretty hard in the past by the Nerf Hammer, especially Trinity and Excalibur(Mag not really,until now).

 

To alleviate the abuse of Viver and Interception mechanics just try to modify the map or make that advanced Sigils grant a boost in standing income.

 

I really hope these nerfs are temporary because they were really unnecessary, especially once you take them to a broader context that isn't Interception abusing.

Edited by Melkia
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Trying to get this post

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345102-de-doesnt-understand-viver/

more exposure.

 

 

- Introduction
This thread is about the mission Viver, player actions within it, and DE's changes to the game that were specifically done to stop it.  I personally believe that DE does not understand why players were doing what they did, and as a result took incorrect actions to try to stop the behavior.



- The Perceived Problem
A lot of players were farming missions (most notably Viver) and racking up many more kills than might happen in a normal mission in order to gain a lot of Syndicate Standing in a short amount of time with little to no work or problems.

This is notable because unlike running defense or survival missions, players were using specific Warframe and ability combinations to slow down mission progress while killing far more enemies than would normally be killed in a specific timespan.  The farming ability, as far as enemy kills, went far beyond what is normally done.  Players were literally earning enough Affinity to rank a weapon up to 30 multiple times in a single mission if it weren't for the Affinity cap.



- DE's Response/Actions
DE approached what players were doing on Viver as if it was the usual "players found some lazy way to farm fast, let's tweak the specific tools and logic used to stop it" scenario.  DE nerfed various Warframes and abilities that were being used in the farming setup to prevent players from making such gains, in addition to changing the way that Interception missions worked.



- The Downsides of DE's Actions
DE's actions do not touch the actual problem, they attack a symptom of the problem.

The changes DE has made to try to attack a symptom have negatively impacted various Warframes in normal situations by placing additional limits on the use of their abilities.  This makes the Warframes less attractive, which is especially bad because the Warframes affected (Mag, Excalibur, and Trinity) are not Warframes that were considered overpowered to begin with and aren't used that often.  In fact, it actually removes a buff that Excalibur had recently gotten.

In addition, the problem is not solved and more cases like this will pop up again and again.  The goal to farm much more Affinity than before still exists, and there will be more methods that pop up to do so.  Players have been able to use specific Warframe/skill combinations in specific scenarios to farm insane gains for a long time, it just was not worth it, there was no benefit to it.  There is now, and DE does not appear to understand why things have changed.



- The Actual/Root Problem
The first step to solving a problem is to identify the problem.  Working back from the unwanted symptom (Viver farming), the problem is that DE has set an unreasonable goal for players in the form of Syndicate rewards.  Players were farming Viver (and will find other farm setups) in an attempt to reach the unreasonable goal that DE has set for them.

"Unreasonable", that's a hell of a claim for me to make, right?  Keep reading.

First, let's look at some common Affinity numbers, pre-U15.

o3jILdV.png

  • "Level 15 Exterminate" is 6,000.
    The average amount of Affinity you can expect for doing an Exterminate mission around that level.
     
  • "T3 Exterminate" is 20,000.
    The average amount of Affinity you can expect for doing a Tower 3 Exterminate mission.
     
  • "T3 Defense" is 150,000.
    The average amount of Affinity you can expect for doing a Tower 3 Defense mission until something good drops or the enemies scale too high for average players.
     
  • "Long ODD" is 600,000.
    The average amount of Affinity you can expect for doing an Orokin Derelict Defense run until a weapon you are carrying has ranked up from 0 to 16 from the standard shared Affinity gain formula.
     
  • "4-Forma Weapon" is 2,700,000.
    This is the amount of Affinity you need to gain in order to rank up a weapon to 30, apply 4 Forma on it, and rank it back up to 30 for use.
     
  • "Usable Affinity Cap" is 3,600,000.
    This is, previously, the maximum amount of useful Affinity you could gain in a single mission.  That is, if you were to go into a mission with an unranked Warframe, primary weapon, secondary weapon, melee weapon, Sentinel, and Sentinel weapon.  In this mission, if you were to gain enough Affinity to rank all of that gear to rank 30 in one run, it would require this much Affinity to be distributed to you.

As you can see, most single missions, even longer defense runs with specific setups tended to stay below a certain amount of "farming".  This is generally due to being ineffective when your gear is rank 0.  Goals such as "4 Forma on a weapon" are generally done over a number of missions, for that example it would take an absolute minimum of 5 missions to achieve due to needing to be outside of a mission to apply a Forma.

Now let's look at Affinity gains and requirements in U15.

r6HqQzc.png
  • "Viver" is 4,050,000.
    People have reported gaining 9000 standing in one mission.  This is the Affinity needed to gain that standing.
     
  • "Obtain One Weapon Mod" is 43,200,000.
    This is the amount of Affinity you need to gain from the point you join a Syndicate to the point where you can purchase a single weapon mod.
     
  • "Obtain One Warframe Mod" is 119,250,000.
    This is the amount of Affinity you need to gain from the point you join a Syndicate to the point where you can purchase a single Warframe mod.

Notice how much higher the numbers are?  Let me use those numbers for other examples.  If you were to equip a Warframe plus three weapons and try to gain enough Affinity to join a Syndicate and obtain a single syndicate mod, you would need enough Affinity to...

- Rank and use 11 Forma on your Warframe plus 23 Forma on each of your three weapons to obtain a single syndicate weapon mod.

- Rank and use 32 Forma on your Warframe plus 65 Forma on each of your three weapons to obtain a single syndicate Warframe mod.

TL;DR: Syndicate mod requirements are unreasonable, and that is why players are resorting to unreasonable methods to try to obtain them.  Until the want to gain extreme amounts and the ability to gain extreme amounts are corrected, people will continue to find farming methods.



- Possible Solutions
- Greatly lower the standing needed for ranks and rewards.  This will bring the target in line with other game systems and help prevent such absurd farms from being seen as needed in the first place.

- Place an upper cap on the Standing gained per mission, perhaps 15 Warframe ranks worth (30 seems like a more uniform suggestion, but would still encourage longer, lazier missions(.  This will make it so that no such farms will be nearly effective as they were regardless of mission or frame combinations, and this change will not require negatively impacting Warframes and abilities for other scenarios.

- Tie Standing gain into more static values, such as the mission's difficulty (like credit rewards).  This is a more strict/simple version of the above solution, with the same goal.

 

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I...

I think i'm more or less done with warframe at the moment...

No more money from me, not even if I saw one of those -75% login reward (I know more people claiming to have seen the bigfoot than people getting this illusory reward anyway...). At least until the game seems bearable again.

 

Dear DE, of ALL the possibilities you have to fix things, WHY do you EVERYTIME choose the WORST and most HARMFUL one there is ?

It's like you really decided to annoy your userbase and ignore everyone and then take a dump on our heads and ask us to be happy about it.

 

DE is clearly on the wrong path here, And I am going to use the power that is mine (My control over my wallet) Since that is probably the only thing they care about now.

Yes, they gotta eat, they gotta sell things etc, And i'm all for that. DE isn't (every month) a charity. Sell cosmetics, sell boosters, whatever, but in the end, if the quality of the product you propose is bad, you can't expect your "whales" to stay...

 

I've been PMing the various members of DE whenever I felt there was a need for it, either for some idea proposal or reporting a bug (after all, we're an involved community AND beta testers, remember.)

But seeing the various issues taking so long to get only partially answered (i'm thinking about the color-blind issue here) or just plainly ignored... and now the rampant choice of picking everytime the laziest solution, even though there exist other ways, as easy to do, yet less harmful to the game...

 

I should probably do one big report, just so people can see how much has been ignored from the players by the devs.

 

So, we still have DE thinking Europe is located tightly in-between Siberia and Kamchatka, I'm from western Europe, yet nearly ALL of my games are filled with Russians players, 90% of which are trolls (you know it, the limbos keeping you banished, the guys that just "stop" 20m in front of the exit and don't move, when they're not simply ALWAYS AFK, the guys that keep bugging you with switch teleport, the ones that ask, in cyrillic, if you're russian and if you aren't or don't answer, they start trolling you and insulting you... really a despicable image they give to foreigners...) Also, their ISPs have S#&$ty peering with western europe, on almost all providers, and most of them end up having 15+ seconds of latency with us... Fun for nobody, which might explain why they troll us so much...

 

---> Fix the regions and have them play among themselves, SINCE they clearly DO NOT WANT foreigners to play with them.

 

 

So, we still have DE thinking double standards are good.

Let's see, They want realism, in a game about futuristic space ninjas... yay right...that's gonna be a cakewalk...

There you have light (corpus lasers) SLOWER than Bullets... Oooookaaayyyyyy...

You have a skill named Radial blind, which purpose is to blind, by a ninja-warrior whose theme is "light" (remember that excalibur theme ? It was one of Arthur's sword, which is supposed to be ablaze whenever it was unsheathed...)

So this blind is reduced to a Fisher-Price replica of a flashbang. here is your futuristic magic'o'science. you too can do the same with a few items from toys'r'us today !

The fact is it could be anything else... an energy wave that shorts visual circuitry and overload nerves, or whatever...

but nope, they go with this mini flashbang-grenade-in-a-hand joke, when they don't even realize TODAY's flashbang are already more powerful than what excalibro is doing. Seriously, Seen a real flashbang before ? or arc-welding ? the only thing that could be more powerful is a certain show's "KOMODO 3000". If excal is down to this sort of cheap tricks, then at least let him have the Komodo 3000 kind of flashbang-in-a-hand...

Why was it nerfed ? because some players abused it with max range and duration, and the power is recastable. (or as some people say "it was fun, hence it got nerfed" )

Why not prevent it from being castable again before the end of the effect, let's say, like a rhino-stomp (or a nekros fear) ?

"nah, not realistic"

Well then, how about removing it from other skills like nyx chaos ? or at least remove all current effects when recasting, like, let's say, she can't maintain a second wave of illusions at the same time, so casting a new one release the others...

"nah, let's just nerf her Mind control by forcing a cooldown on it, Blaming it on the need for the skill to be useful when players are surrounded by idiots..."

Of course, Adding WIDE and strobing LOTUS LOGOS onto the ONLY affected target isn't good enough for people to realize it is the currently mindcontrolled enemy. How about just giving it 2s of invulnerability, while the target is actually  stunned, so it could also "fix" the fact it could be spammed to paralyze bosses ?

Idiots will still be there, and will find a way to ruin your games anyway...

How about a way to prevent trolls from trolling ? dunno, something like "I do not want to be phased out by this limbo", "I do not want to be teleported by this Loki" ...

Now we have to "enjoy" having a nyx that will take AGES to levelup since we cannot use the mind control as a quick interruption (let's say, prevent an ancient disruptor to hit someone) just before killing it and controlling something more useful.

What other solutions ? Should we have the mind control release the 1st target when cast on another ? yay, great if we want some way to troll with nyx. Get a disruptor, he's invul now, people will not waste ammos on it, assuming someone else already blasted it beyond limits, and the trollnyx will release it by controlling another target, right when the disruptor is next to an ally...

It's still ok for excalibur to have such low stats everywhere, even when there are frames like Zephyr having only advantages ?

By the way, how comes Zephyr cannot recast her ult ? I mean, she's not CONTROLLING the tornadoes, right ? because if she were, even when I run 4 rooms away to return and find the tornadoes still rampaging, then I call b*llsh*t on range limitation or line of sight for all the other skills... or is it again a double standard ? So many of them in the game.

 

So, we still have DE thinking Enforcing a Grindwall is the way to go.

The players accepted the "RNG" already, as bad as it is (payara hunting anyone ? nobody ? yeah, that's what I thought...).

Not enough for DE, who think we must now become total slaves to their game. After putting up a syndicate system, and letting most of it to the guessing and testing of the players themselves (not even reviewing their own copy, and letting some errors through, like the perrin sequence fees...), they gave us dailies that still meant we would need to log in daily.

because huh, it seems the login rewards aren't working as expected ?

and worst, people actually wonder if they're going to play WF at all that day, considering all the problems.... WHEN they can play at all *winks at XP users*

Now the players adapted, they adapted to the fact that the gain of standing depend on the total affinity done in the mission.

This means they accepted the good and the bad.

The bad is that playing alone, having less to kill, give less standing ;

The bad is that you can lose a rank you paid for, just because when you switched your current warframe, you forgot that this warframe had a different sigil for whatever reason, and that it gained you some negative points into that newly-upranked-and-now-deranked syndicate, althought you just spent a forma or orokin potato in it ;

The bad is that Most of your missions won't give anything remarkable in term of standing... unless doing specific missions (let's say, totally at random... interceptions ?)

The bad is that we need high amounts of points to get anything, and that most of it are useless, bugged, or of a debatable cosmetic purpose.

The bad is that it's locked behind grindwall for ranks, then grindwall for the points...

 

The good... well, there is new content, in the form of new mods even though the frames must now reuse one of the mod slots to equip the augments mods... kinda silly considering that DE wanted us to have those slots for non-skill mods...

 

Much bad, little good. Yet, we players were fine with it, because we did not want to completely distrust DE, we had hope it could get better. We needed something to hang on to, since it cannot be the horrible mess of archwing, or the underachieving public games with troll-limbos...

So the players adapted, the only thing to be done was to grind their syndicate levels, and they wanted the best efficiency for it, and they found it on some missions where they enjoyed a constant spawn of mobs to grind, that still takes time, but reduce the number of time the 4 of them have to wait 15s although all of them have chosen to "keep fighting !". So, basically, it was fun, so it was nerfed.

What else could it be ? giving abnormal amount of standing points ? have they or have they not killed the mobs ?

They have. Affinity has been earned, so are the standing points. would you prefer to force them to quit at round 1, and relaunch the mission again, and fight again for a few minutes, then rinse and repeat... they're merely skipping those eternal 15s + 15 seconds to exit + loading times.

You want to blame them for it ? You're blaming them for being SMART ? oh, right, you actually made it so the smart use of mind control is hindered, while the "normal" use of it is now supposedly idiot-proof. DE seems to like idiots these days...

I guess they could decide to solve the problem in the united states by removing the safety labels, but I don't really care what they do there, i'm too busy enjoying my kinder surprise (yeah, go figure, we don't have to tell kids not to eat plastic in europe, nor do we have to insist on the fact that one should not stop a chainsaw with his groin).

 

---> make the mobs' level grow with TIME, not with ROUNDS. perfectly logical. The more you let the enemies cap points, the more a single round last, the more it last, the harder the enemies become. of course, having 100% vs 30% doesnt mean much in early rounds, but if people are unaware and rely on turtle-ing all the way, their game is going to be as hard at wave 6 than it is at wave 9 for "better" players.

Still allows for the Standing farmers to have "easy" round 1, "not so easy" round 2,"quite serious" round 3, and "holy s*** that hurt" round 4...

Or keep the enemy % between round, forcing people that want to go "far" to manage the progress of enemy over the different rounds....

 

 

Nerfing Frames for a map/gameplay problem is a bad solution, You already blocked that viver farm by removing the neutral state of capture points. How sick do you want to be ?

Seriously, here is a little analogy, just for you to understand :

 

"Erik, Tanya, and Margaret are 3 lively little kids that love to play together. On the dead-end dirt road behind their house where they like to play, there is a pothole which is often left filled up with water from a broken rain gutter.

Being kids, they love to play with water and jump in it with both feet, splashing each other around, but being good kids, they do so they don't annoy anyone else, not even their parents, by changing into their swimsuits first.

Now there is a grumpy old guy which happens to be the town's guy in charge of the roads and gutters, and he absolutely hate to see those kids having fun there, even though he lives on the opposite side of the town and rarely see them, yet he cannot bear the fact they are having fun and not him. So he decides, on a wednesday, that there are things to be done :

-First, he'll fix the road. A little adjustment on the road would be enough, leveling it so there is no more pothole, but he choose to make a new rule about pothole : they have to be filled with shards of broken glass, then covered-or-not, depending on how many people look at it and the color of the last bird they saw, by a 10 inches high wooden crate.

-Then he decides the kids are to blame too, who knows, they probably dig it up themselves, those crazy kids, even though he knows for a fact the pothole was already there BEFORE they were even born.

His solution is to cut the kids' legs right under the knees, so they cannot jump in the hole anymore, and to be sure they cannot get a good depth perception, he decides to stab Tanya and Margaret in an eye each, poor Erik escaping this part of the cruel fate because he already miss an eye, in addition to being smaller and weaker than both girls although he's older, and being a hunchback, and generally quite slow. Loosing his legs will only add to this, and worst, he recently got a nicely customized walking stick to help him, which he nicknamed "Radiant Jaywalking", and the grumpy old guy decide it should be sawed off to one fifth of it's original length, leaving it to a bare handle with no stick, which is, obviously, useless.

He then proceed to call it "a job well done", and parades in town with a panel showing what he did, proud of it, although there are still a lot of other puddle-splasher kids and potholes out there, on much more important roads, that need to be dealt with."

 

This is what it is. You know who the grumpy old guy is (he's in charge of the roads and gutters !) and you probably guessed who these Excalibur, Trinity and Mag kids are too.

Would it be that hard to fill that puddle with dirt and/or fix that leaking gutter ? Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows.

Are there more important things that need fixing and therefore should be done first ? Certainly.

Let's hope the town's council will be filled by something else than parkinsonian surgeons and Alzheimer-history teachers.

 

This game now needs to be saved. No amount of 'stache or space piewpiew can be enough to fill the gaps. it needs serious fixes ASAP, or at least your WORDS that problem x/y/z is being looked into (not "will be" ).

a public devlog would be great, we'd know you noticed this or that problem, and know you're spending time on it instead of just trying to push new content and ignore all the fixes that should have been done before.

 

Some will say that I type a lot for someone who doesn't care, and I'd tell them : I do care. never said otherwise.

It's because I care that I want the devs and community managers to notice their game is on the wrong path.

 

A few things to remember :

 

-Re-rework excal, at least 1 guy from DE has a PM from me with details on what is bugged, missing, contradictory, or borderline useless on excalibur, from a bunch of well thought ideas from the community.

 

-Archwing : status : bad. needs to get better, not sure it can be done without redoing half of the code (If I was mean-spirited i'd say "it's only a page of code,so ?")

Seriously, Turning the frames into tinkerbells, having giant enemies, using cheap camera trick to "achieve" distance, using teleporting melee so we can actually hit something, the near impossibility to travel in a timely manner from point to point (how about having a few thrusters here and there, that can be used to travel half the map in a jiffy ?) having a locked Up and down view instead of free flight... is that the best DE can achieve ?

 

-syndicates : We need a reliable way to get big quantities of standing and a rework (fast!) on the sigils AND normal missions, as well as a better way to buy our items from them... like reducing the standing cost (at least halve it) but adding some other requirement (ressources, credits, build time...)

 

-skills and nerfing vs powercreep :

Allright, you ARE fond of powercreeps, but why it is that whenever players find a way to outsmart the mobs, instead of making them smarter,you just push the damage/bulletsponge slider a notch higher or nerf skills and builds ?

Could it be that you don't estimate us players smart enough to adapt ? Are we such morons ? (I'm feeling an oppressive need to specify that last question was rhetorical, you don't have to answer... I fear the answer)

 

-Dark sectors (A.K.A PvP), There is a lot of bad things happening with the current setup, mostly political, but also from the current design of dark sectors... if 3000 wins are enough to "kill" the defender's solar rail, it doesn't take into account that they might have defended 10000 time successfully.

Considering the current tax rates, the alliances have far enough credits to build, maintain, and give huge battlepays whenever they feel threatened... for the next century or so. A threat which doesn't happen often since they just use "courtesy attacks" to prevent outsider from MAYBE managing to get their rail up, and then MAYBE get support from an apathic community (well, can't blame them, so long with that crap going on, even a goldfish would get bored of it).

These rare times you can actually see a clan or alliance without funds managing to get a grip, only to get eradicated 2 days later, with huge battlepays against them.

This call for a redesign. Any alliance that have been or is still in power should have no say in the matter, they're loaded with ressources and credits for EONS.

I already hear some people saying "well, it's not like they can access that money right, it's locked in clan or alliance vault, and cannot be given to members...".

Yeah, what if... some alliance, currently in a conflict, against what is probably one of their best allies, in a "courtesy attack", decided to "let go" of a few members, I dunno, let's say 4 of them (and probably a bunch of dummy accounts in front of them to start the mission), So they can participate in a more or less "off-peak" hour battle, win it, and right before winning, one of the Alliance tactician was to put a battlepay for exactly 4 people to win ? let's say, 1 million per person. (I too like round numbers...)

Do you think those 4-or-so people would just not do this because of a 12h clan key craft requiring the incredibly hard to get amount of 500 ferrites and polymer bundles, and 1 ultra rare morphic ? (and 1500 credits, the greed that forge displays is amazing !)

 

I guess you guys know of deathsnacks site ?

Wouldn't 

It 

Be 

A 

Shame 

If 

Someone 

Were 

To 

See 

It ?  (see, a magnifique coup double for the finish)

 

Shouldn't that get looked into ?

Will DE pretend that they are not aware, when a mere player is able to see it just by clicking a few links ?

 

---> How about the reward are given only at the end of the 12 hours conflict, and any fight won by anyone PRIOR to an increase in fundings can get a slice of those too ? ensuring that the above linked tactic wouldn't be useable anymore...

All those people that worked a few percent for you, that got nothing, well,those 4x 1,000,000 credits you wanted to transfer shall hit their prior legitimate owners first. If 50 players played your mission at 0 reward, and you add in (well after) a 4million credit pack, intending to do it right before the end sequence of your "secret team", your team gets nothing, the 4M are to be split between the 50 previous mercenaries (80K eachmax, depending on the scoring system of course).

 

 

There are probably more things to be added, But I guess this post is long enough already.

 

TL;DR : DE make ugly choices that affect everyone's fun, and don't do long needed changes in fear of a backlash from a few abusing players alliances which are ruining a whole side of the game. 

 

TT;CR (Troll is Troll; Cannot Read) : Schlaguevuk aka zbroudaf *shows angry face and slam fists on the table*

 

 

 

 

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Honestly, normally I'm fine with nerfs, most of the time I even thought they made sense, but seriously nerfing several Warframes basically to uselessness in an illogical way to prevent one mission from being exploited is just...wow...words can't describe how disappointed I am. Especially nerfing the abilities which are basically the most important ones to give these Warframes the possibility to compete with the other OP frames.

This is the first time I'm not only disappointed about a update but in all honesty angry.

Edited by Spanksh
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Please De Revert the changes to Excalibur,Mag and Trinity. You maimed 3 frames that already got hit pretty hard in the past by the Nerf Hammer, especially Trinity and Excalibur(Mag not really,until now).

 

To alleviate the abuse of Viver and Interception mechanics just try to modify the map or make that advanced Sigils grant a boost in standing income.

 

I really hope these nerfs are temporary because they were really unnecessary, especially once you take them to a broader context that isn't Interception abusing.

I agree with you on Excalibur and Trinity but have a correction for Mag. Her pull was nerfed hard so that she wouldn't be op but the nerf made the skill useless as a melee slam can now achieve the same results. She became a one trick pony with shield polarize being what carried her in endgame content. Then they drastically nerfed magnetic damage, yet with community feedback, reversed it. I almost left because I couldn't stand the changes made to my favorite character, and now they've done this. Her ability that pulled her weight endgame just got hit by the nerfhammer so hard it's impossible to use it effectively in regular gameplay. Mag was already a carefully balanced frame and now this nerf has taken her down. If it's not reversed I don't think I want to play anymore. What a sad thing to do to frames that doesn't fix the problem and what a mean thing to do to players.

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now I smoke balls like a beast with anger: that S#&$ is that the four of exca can not hit multiple enemies with obstacles ahead ???????? But for what @(*()$ reason?!?! that S#&$ is this?!?! But what makes me furious is that Warframe "touch a @(*()$ button and won or are immortal" type Rinho ash or not you made a S#&$, indeed, iron skin has also been enhanced, as if it were not strong enough to his Rinho!

obviously also applies for Mag

 

I feel deeply taken for a ride

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This update notes are depressing. Real depressing.

 

Instead of touching the main reason why people resort to abuse the mechanics of rep gain, you guys decided to chop 3 frames that's used to pull this exploit. Without considering that:

1) Warframe isn't just spin around Viver and gaining Syndicates rep-gain. And the purpose of the change to these 3 frame are as in plain sight and as bright as sun in Lordran. There's nothing about balance in this change. It's like what redtext said, bandaid.

2) There are players who main these 3 frames, and not even exploiting Viver at all. Oh, should I mentioned that one of the affected frame, Excalibur, recently got a buff on his kit? And the same frame got chopped (again), not even one month after the kit upgrade?

 

People abuse the system because the rep gain is too small, and if we compare the possible reward to the sacrifices given to these Syndicates, it's not worth the massive grindwall. Look, I understand (please note I use the term 'understand' loosely here) that Syndicates are supposed to become a end-game content and must be impossible to power-grind in weeks. But instead of looking over at the rep-gain maths, and either buff the rep gain in general or lessen the sacrificed needed; you guys did.........this.

 

*sigh*

Edited by Lorche
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Nerf Shuriken next so fewer people use the god awful thing.

Also, you gave Excalibro a non-LoS super fall-off ultimate ability, then brought it back to just as bad as it was before. Something something Ember, something something pls. As someone who actually has Excalibro Prime, why would you mess with your poster child so harshly when you could just as easily nerf the /MISSION/ instead? "It's too hard to take these thousands of syndicate points away from them per run, let's just nerf the stuff they're using to do it."

How about, instead of doing that, bring the mission to how it used to be as well as the frames, but make the syndicate pay-out much less. This is something everyone and their mother has probably suggested a million times.

This is what happened way back when Ember was the queen of the OLD defense missions, getting 30 levels per run with absolutely no effort. #BurnTheInfested.

 

Instead of nerfing the frames that make it possible (and effectively ruining them for end-game content, which syndicates are supposed to be synonymous with, and effectively making the frames' syndicate mods absolutely useless), nerf the places that they're making way too easy. Have you guys tried playing end-game with nothing but a melee weapon and your frame's powers? Unless you're Loki, Ash, pre-nerf Excalibur with non-LoS radial blind (which is one of the few things that made him viable), and a very few others, your abilities aren't even going to do much. Everyone does indeed have their uses (except Ember, RIP) but nerfing something because it's too good in /ONE/ place isn't the correct solution. That said, I don't play any of these three frames. Mostly because of the radial blind nerf, and when Trinity was made into basically just a toy. 

With that out of the way, I'd like to thank you for making an incredible game that I thoroughly enjoy playing, and will immediately quit if Blade Storm is taken away from me. No more money for you, DE. NO MORE. It's all he has. :( Smokescreen is so inferior. Looking forward to Focus. Solo missions are best missions.

 

 

TL;DR: A string of clearly uneducated opinions and sodium chloride ranting. U mayd excalibro a joke gif him bak non-LoS jav and blind and also make mag good pls MAGNETIC WAVES GO THROUGH OBJECTS


Edit: Just super saiyan, we can see enemies on the radar. Would be completely plausible to explain why his javelin and blind can go through walls by saying "he inputs the coordinates based on the radar's scans"

Edited by Kyoryu
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I'm just going to put it out there that I think the powers needed a nerf. Spamming powers all mission makes for stale gameplay. That being said, I know there is actual constructive topics in the forums that actually highlight potential fixes to the issues rather than topics just for the sake of complaining.

 

Just need to say that so it doesn't look like every player is upset with the changes.

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  ..  Folks .... seriously ...

 

no matter how , no matter what.... AWAKE!!  NOW!!

 

dont let communist China take over the rest of our democratic world by buying-in in each and every little shi.tty company

 

with their abundance of dark cash flows who knows its origins, if its not stolen from communist puppy russia

 

.....lets pray its not too late.... OMG

 

Uhuh.

 

On a similar note, here is Jesus appearing on a toast:

 

AhRN5RO.jpg

Edited by Radford_343
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God damn, people are still whining about that? I can't tell if you people are trying to be satirical by making of people who overreact about small things that can easily be fixed or you are serious. I really hope it's not the latter, if so, I am embarrassed to have posted in the same thread as you.

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Welp, let's put aside the "improvements" and the long-a*s posts.. Nerfining 3 FRAMES, and A WHOLE GAME MODE because of ONLY 1 MISSION [Viver obviusly] that is being abused is just st*p!d... just the st*p!dest move. Better withdraw that last update and reconsider DE.

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And people scoffed at me when I said DE was taking a S#&$ty turn.

 

Haven't played Warframe since last Wednesday. The whole thing about archwing cockblocking Limbo kinda made me think less of DE and of Warframe. Next minor update? They nerf 3 frames that honestly needed a couple of buffs. Trinity was my favorite frame at one point. Thanks for putting a giant red X on her, DE.

 

This is the path DE is taking. They'd rather put up huge grindwalls to add longevity in to the game and nerf what is essentially Warframe's classes so that the one mission that shortens that grind can no longer do so. Yup, they didn't change the SINGLE NODE, THEY CHANGED 3 FRAMES THAT EQUATE TO A LOT MORE THAN ONE MEASLY MISSION.

 

Honestly, it would have been better to just erase Viver. Not saying that it's the optimal choice. The one DE made was honestly close to the worse choice they could have made. When one part isn't working in a machine, you fix the part, not change the properties of the machine around the part.

 

I personally believe Syndicates should be even more level exclusive. It's supposed to be more near the end of the game content, yet level 3s can participate. The only way I can see that DE could have prevented the Viver issue would be to have straight up not given benefits to anyone lower than MR11, while still letting people gather points leading up to MR11. At that point, a lot of players have played a decent amount of time and will have had chances to gather most of the weapons they want and upgrade them enough. So, a lot of them will have the extra mats to throw at the huge paywalls (that should honestly be lowered anyway) in the Syndicates.

 

In the end, this was a terrible response. It seems the Community Managers and DE need to communicate more, because this was either blatant disregard of things the community has been asking for for months (which I hope it wasn't, because that means DE is turning in to EA, who are notorious for ignoring their communities), or it is a common case of terrible communication.

Edited by CoRRh
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I can't say I'm affected by this too much, I didn't even hear about the Viver "exploit" until yesterday, but here's a question for DE: what will you do if people find other ways and other missions to effectively farm that damn rep? Nerf them too, until there are no endgame-viable abilities in this game and everyone starts feeling Amber's pain? I mean what was your design goal for syndicates, that people should really spend months grinding rep even if they have affinity boosters (which are short and ridiculously overpriced, because the standard for exp+cash boosters is usually about $15/month, go count how many $$ it would cost to get a month's worth of affinity+credit boost in this game) to even get to appropriate level of respect, leave alone trying to buy anything (and thank God all the rewards are mostly gimmicks and neither turn the affected weapons/warframes into something very strong nor are required to beat situations where nothing else helps)?

 

These rep grind numbers are an abomination, but in case anyone could ignore them for the lack of luster on rewards, they are now spreading their contagion to warframes that didn't deserve nerfs, so that everyone gets affected. I mean Cal and Mag? I don't even remember the last time I saw those in serious missions.

 

And now they have birthed an even bigger abomination, which is this whole Line of Sight thing, which should have never been implemented at all. Did you consider that it might not be fun to stand in plain sight of a horde of high level enemies that will tear you to shreds long before you can finish a cast animation, which is why casting form cover was important? Only days ago you implemented changes to Radial Javelin to make it viable without LoS, and now you nerf it back because some people used it to take shortcuts in an obscenely long chore of a rep grind you designed?

 

Come on DE, clearly you've been on a wrong track, if this thread is any indication. Genetic stabilizers were bad enough, but this is a completely different level of trying to force people to buy your 90-day boosters only available with prime packages. Please, rethink this madness.

 

Oh, and you broke Sigil coloring altogether with this update.

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Welp, let's put aside the "improvements" and the long-a*s posts.. Nerfining 3 FRAMES, and A WHOLE GAME MODE because of ONLY 1 MISSION [Viver obviusly] that is being abused is just st*p!d... just the st*p!dest move. Better withdraw that last update and reconsider DE.

 

I'd like to emphasize this further.

3 Frames and Interception as a game mode have been changed due to Viver which is our only way to grind Syndicate rep at an acceptable pace.

 

Viver isn't the problem.

Viver never was a problem.

The Syndicate grind wall is the problem.

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Bye Bye Excalibur, you will forever be missed.

 

So Excalibur is the face of warframe and he is now the most useless frame ever, thanks

 

Oh and for the people who got Excalibur prime, i feel for you all you have now is a $100 ornament just sitting there collecting dust.

 

So please just take him back to pre 15, things were allot better then

Edited by HoneyBadjer
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