Reasons Why These Nerfs Wont Stop Viver From Being The Best Spot

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

don't even suggest that they nerf all frames with AOE even as an ultimatum what if DE really did then we'll all be screwed -_-

Edited November 13, 2014 by HARDCORE_DAVE

[Phoenix86]

don't even suggest that they nerf all frames with AOE even as an ultimatum what if DE really did then we'll all be screwed -_-

 

not us, them. their game. they will bury themselves with their own hands

 

i will simply move on to another game, i had everything this game could possibly give me tbh

(and i thank DE for that, it was a great time while it lasted)

Edited November 13, 2014 by Phoenix86

[Pendragon1951]

I still got over 1K on Vivar using Mag, but I agree the problem is not Vivar itself nor the teams who play Vivar the rep earning system needs to be changed, for myself I think part of the change needs to come to the rewards, for the most part they are pretty worthless, and do you really want to spend rep on Sigils that do nothing? They need to make it worth the grind.

[JackPaladin]

+1 Op for president.

[ThePresident777]

The Original Post, i.e. OP, makes the same error that DE has made in nerfing 3 warframes for the sake of an XP issue.  The OP confuses game play with XP.  DE's issue with vivier was the XP rate because XP rate translates into boosters which can only be bought for plat. 

 

XP and game play are different things therefore they can be dealt with separately.  DE could have directly altered the XP code to factor in increased XP rates inherent in certain game play mechanics.  DE could have normalized XP across differences in game play but instead DE decided to destroy game play for something it could have solved directly.

 

Until DE sees the separation between XP and game play, not only will it continue to destroy game play and lose money because the game is too boring to be worth spending money on boosters, but players who prefer other types of game play such as stealth and boss fights will lose XP for playing their favorite missions, and they'll get too bored to spend money on boosters.

 

DE, you're cutting your own throat with these game play downgrades and confused product designs.

Edited November 13, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Phoenix86]

The Original Post, i.e. OP, makes the same error that DE has made in nerfing 3 warframes for the sake of an XP issue.  The OP confuses game play with XP.  DE's issue with vivier was the XP rate because XP rate translates into boosters which can only be bought for plat. 

 

XP and game play are different things therefore they can be dealt with separately.  DE could have directly altered the XP code to factor in increased XP rates inherent in certain game play mechanics.  DE could have normalized XP across differences in game play but instead DE decided to destroy game play for something it could have solved directly.

 

Until DE sees the separation between XP and game play, not only will it continue to destroy game play and lose money because the game is too boring to be worth spending money on boosters, but players who prefer other types of game play such as stealth and boss fights will lose XP for playing their favorite missions, and they'll get too bored to spend money on boosters.

 

DE, you're cutting your own throat with these game play downgrades and confused product designs.

 

well it's hard to separate those... i mean.. xp comes from kills (99%) and getting kills is the gameplay of this game...

[LazyKnight]

well it's hard to separate those... i mean.. xp comes from kills (99%) and getting kills is the gameplay of this game...

That is part of the reason the player-base has such a bias towards high NPCs spawn mission types. An extermination or any other mission that does not involve killing thousands of NPC will reward pitiful amounts of affinity/reputation. 

[Phoenix86]

That is part of the reason the player-base has such a bias towards high NPCs spawn mission types. An extermination or any other mission that does not involve killing thousands of NPC will reward pitiful amounts of affinity/reputation. 

 

cause there's no inner reward for mission completition, DE should add it, i mean... it's like the oldest thing ever done in any game...

 

You accept a quest and the NPC that gave it to you will reward you with exp + adds for completing it!

 

Adding an inner compensation because you successfully did a mission should be a must here too

(obviously endless missions would have very low rewards while faster mission would have higher ones, to balance them out, even if, all in all, you cant beat something that is "endless" but if an exterminate would net me the equivalent of a 5/10 waves defense in xp... hell i would play it!)

[ThePresident777]

It's not hard to separate XP from kills, or damage, at all.  Some have suggested giving mission or objective completion XP.  You can also just put a time dependent damper on XP, such as a maximum XP rate.  Or you can divide the XP per enemy based on the spawn rate, or spawn group size, so the XP is the same regardless of how many enemy spawn.  Then you do not get penalized for playing low enemy count missions such as boss missions, or stealth.

 

There are other factors and each one can be underastood and dealt with appropriately, instead of butchering Peter to feed Paul.

 

DE is looking at this situation all wrong.  They see game play as destroying their revenue stream, i.e. affinity boosters, so they destroy game play.  That is a ridiculous action to take because game play is the reason people play games.  If people do not want to play your game then they do not want to give you money.

Edited November 13, 2014 by ThePresident777

[RiouHotaru]

Viver was the result of an exploit.  Even if the Syndicate Reputation issue didn't exist, it made use of a loophole (points being kept neutral so the round did not progress) to force enemies to spawn at a fixed level so that they could be farmed for both experience and mods/resources.  Also, this loophole existed for all Interception Nodes, not just Viver.

 

The purpose of the Interception change was to close that loophole.

[MeduSalem]

- how do you think to recover the gap just created between those players who farmed Viver 24/7 till now and those who didnt?

 

That's the question of all questions. How are they going to fix the massive imbalance the whole mess has caused the past 2 weeks?

 

There are people making ridiclous amounts of Plat out of that issue... at several times the magnitude than the Legendary Core scandal earlier this year.

 

The economy of the game is basically screwed to be honest when there are people selling weapon/warframe augment mods with 500-1000+ Platinum per Mod.

 

I'm not even jealous about it... I've enough Plat of my own (nope did not run Viver at all) but still... urgh.. the thought alone is just ugly. Almost as bad as Diablo 3 auction house has been in the late days.

Edited November 13, 2014 by MeduSalem

[Phoenix86]

Viver was the result of an exploit. 

 

If you put the Corpus in a 100m meters wide map with the best corpus killer which has 90m insta-gib skill. that's not exploit.

 

That's just smart thinking. Not our fault, we took advantages of a situation because a grind that we didnt want/like came to us.

 

Viver was already there and none "exploited" it  (to use ur words) because we didnt need to.

[.Monarch]

Can people stop giving DE ideas...?

 

Excal was useful after his buff. Now he's truly deserving of his title as a starter frame. As useful as a MK-1 Braton.

I don't blame DE for their 'fixes', I blame those who kept complaining about things that doesn't concern them.

 

Syn mods are about 200p before Viver is 'ruined'. Now the price is surely going to sky rocket.

I'm not sure how you feel about 600p a mod piece. I feel like some of you are real proud of yourself right now.

 

On topic, this so call 'fix' is surely lazy, short sighted.

As OP suggested, a simple change of Node faction / game mode will fix this issue.

 

I didn't hear about any issue with Viver, Cerberus until Syndicates came along. DE shouldn't you be looking at this phenomenon instead?

[EdgeKasim]

Viver was the result of an exploit.  Even if the Syndicate Reputation issue didn't exist, it made use of a loophole (points being kept neutral so the round did not progress) to force enemies to spawn at a fixed level so that they could be farmed for both experience and mods/resources.  Also, this loophole existed for all Interception Nodes, not just Viver.

 

The purpose of the Interception change was to close that loophole.

 

allow me to explain why this is wrong and it wasnt an exploit.  long before the multiple endless modes there was just defence, people would generally use this for their farms and exp gains....but they were not necesarily the smarter thinkers, they were just following the croud, those of is that wanted a manageable INFINITE grind would start upa sabotage, spy, or any of the other objective based missions simply because the enemies would spawn without end and without scaling, in a manageable and profitable manner, and the higehr difficulty maps (back when maps had a dificulty classification) would do this at a higher freaquency and volume.  now going by your poorly worded and thought out logic, not finishing these missions within an acceptable time, would be considered an exploit...simply because you would be killing more than faster members of the comunity do.  this is why anybody thinking its an exploit is flat out wrong.  farming unlimited mobs at a fixed level is nothing new and something that still goes on to this day by a smaller percent of the community.  when others complained that their oxium farming spot was gone i tried my hand at the good old method, yes it took longer but i got a fair ammount of oxium with no trouble, and if i decided to stay longer i would have easily broken the 100 mark in 1 run.

 

farming efficiently is not exploiting, its using your whits to discover methods that work to your advantage. 

[egypt]

If you put the Corpus in a 100m meters wide map with the best corpus killer which has 90m insta-gib skill. that's not exploit.

 

That's just smart thinking. Not our fault, we took advantages of a situation because a grind that we didnt want/like came to us.

 

Viver was already there and none "exploited" it  (to use ur words) because we didnt need to.

this logic is wrong on so many levels..I dont even know where to start. I hope you realize it.. probably not though

[Zareek]

I think people are overreacting. DE has admitted fault before, and they read and consider feedback given to them. Sure I'm a bit upset by the way they handled this, but they should be given a chance to fix it too. They didn't do it to &!$$ people off after all, that's not in their best interest. So lets give them a bit of time to solve this oproar.

 

(Not saying people should stop posting feedback, but there is no reason to overreact)

Edited November 13, 2014 by Zareek

[ThePresident777]

It was not a game play exploit.  It was a business model exploit.  XP is a business issue, not a game play issue.  Instead of dealing with the business model exploit, DE destroyed the game play.  DE, and the majority of the feed back in these forums, repeatedly fail to see business issues as business issues but instead continue to destroy the game play thereby not resolving the business issues but worsening them.

[Phoenix86]

this logic is wrong on so many levels..I dont even know where to start. I hope you realize it.. probably not though

 

u better start if u want to convince me...

 

dont get me wrong... i felt like a "noob-tuber" in CoD but that being said... if the game allows it... i'm using it.

[Genoscythe]

not us, them. their game. they will bury themselves with their own hands

 

i will simply move on to another game, i had everything this game could possibly give me tbh

(and i thank DE for that, it was a great time while it lasted)

I feel you so much, I met a lot of awesome people here and we still play together, I have to thank the hell out of DE for that, on the other side I feel sadmess and even a bit of rage to what they made out of their game. I didnt play the game for a week now, I had a short active phase of two weeks before that where i got averything, and before that I already had a 2 month break. I'm 5k mastery before MR 18 now, and I dotn feel the motivation to farm eltyron, level my corvas or onorix or even farm the new weapons.

 

My intervalls in this game are getting shorter, DE had the chance to make things better, they wasted it on unneccesary cr4p like archwing and syndicates.

 

Still no endgame were begging for since U8, still no coherent lore, still no balance.

 

Tenno mean balance.

 

DE are no Tenno.

[egypt]

u better start if u want to convince me...

 

dont get me wrong... i felt like a "noob-tuber" in CoD but that being said... if the game allows it... i'm using it.

i never be able to convince you nor i have the desire to. if you don't see the need of tweaking the warframe abilities and prefer to obligate rooms full of enemies, indefinitely, with one button, fully "enjoying" your Skinner box, please proceed doing so. nothing of consequences has changed. everybody is overreacting i even wonder if most of them play the frames in question (outside of viver ofc)

but i don't speak solely about viver. viver just went public. since the time exists a well formed team can viver(ye this deserve to be a word) on every infinite mission type, be it survival or defence it doesn't matter, turning the mission in constant stream of colorful fireworks.

i'm just amazed how some people can speak about challenge in game, or better enemy AI, or been "burned out" from "doing the same" and then defend power creep in its finest. more warframe abilities need to be rebalanced, the infinite supply of energy too.

we can argue that in game of chess if we replaced all the other figures with queens will make chess more interesting game.. but at the end it is matter of opinion.. and they didn't do it so far(not that i want to compare warframe with chess but still).

Edited November 14, 2014 by egypt

[Phoenix86]

-snip-

 

i partially enjoy it and partially not.

 

I do because who doesnt love to blow up stuff? afterall we shouldnt be here if it wasnt so.

 

I do not because hell... i think Viver is the most boring map ever, i play it because i'm forced to do it, forced by myself if i want to get the mods i want in a reasonable time (this is highly subjective)

 

All in all this is PvE game, it's not like i'm hurting someone else by doing what i do, it's not like if a guy had 2 syndacates already max'ed out it ruins my gameplay experience. I may be envy, or jelly of him because he has some stuff i dont have. but it doesnt ruin my game play.

[TankHunter678]

What do you mean by better? The game has been RNG based to enhance its life span up to recently, the Syndicates are grind based, no matter what method DE uses for it the idea is that it is supposed to take time. 

 

Would you rather have the syndicates RNG based with the most desired items having 0,015% drop chance?

 

At least the way it is now people know how much effort they need to invest to get what they want instead of hoping they get lucky.

Some simple steps to improve the syndicate system:

 

1) Split Rep into Honor and Favor, Honor is the "Rank Exp" while Favor is the "Currency"

2) Change ranking up from being resources and credits, to being special missions that uses a fixed layout to allow for more events and mechanically difficult/different from normal things

3) Change Offerings to be a system where you can, at any time, sacrifice resources, credits, or items/parts for Favor to act as a secondary way to get the rep "currency"

4) Change the primary rep gain to being objective completion based rather then exp based and have it in higher values the more difficult the mission (in the case of endless missions the rep scales even further to match the level ranges of the enemies)

 

 

Suddenly the system is a hell of a lot better. Still a grind, but a hell of a lot better that would have still had people playing the modes as intended.