I Agree With The Mag Nerf.

[Archaic_]

Mag:

Personally, through experience and multiple hours invested into her in the past (last year or so), I thought she was a bit overpowered in the sense that she can demolish groups of Corpus with ease at any level if you had Power Strength over 100%. Shield Polarize is one of the very few abilities that scales damage on par with enemy level and will always be devastating in that regard and it's not even her ultimate ability either! Personally, I think the damage part of Shield Polarize should be an ultimate or Crush with this effect and have the shield instant regeneration separate from her Shield Polarize(Crush in this regard) and become its own ability with a little something on the side also reducing the cost of the ability to compensate. Viable damage shouldn't be a 2nd ability but an ultimate. But to be honest, this nerf was something I was expecting sooner.

 

Excal: 

Needs a new ultimate in my opinion, it fits no purpose for crowd control since Radial Blind is capable of doing so and should grant some team buff or something similar. The nerf though, unnecessary. Also Slash Dash got no love so that's still something I would like to see improvement.

 

Trinity:

All in all, she also didn't deserve this but its also not that big of a change. I would prefer to see her Well of Life reworked though. I just find it redundant how her 1st ability and 4th heal and think it should be completely different.

[Petersheikah]

Mag is THE corpus killer. Corpus maps are full of little rooms, cuniculuses, air vents and boxes. The enemies can easily run outside your field of view or just hide themselves:

Mag is dead.

[drMightyPotato]

Mag is THE corpus killer. Corpus maps are full of little rooms, cuniculuses, air vents and boxes. The enemies can easily run outside your field of view or just hide themselves:

Mag is dead.

Unless mag has some kind of radar in her hemlet that allows her to see trough walls, not to mention pin point precision, to hit an enemy i dont see the problem... Same thing in real life, you dont shoot trough the door if you dont see the enemy, its a waste of ammo and if the enemy isnt there you just alerted them.

[ndantony]

Unless mag has some kind of radar in her hemlet that allows her to see trough walls, not to mention pin point precision, to hit an enemy i dont see the problem... Same thing in real life, you dont shoot trough the door if you dont see the enemy, its a waste of ammo and if the enemy isnt there you just alerted them.

Warframe is not to be modeled to real life power. Actually, there is no power at all in first place in real life, and almost all the guns need to be removed too, if that is the reason you're basing on.

[Spellbinding]

The only abilities that should be LoS are ones that you have to manually target like Nyx's Mind Control, or Nekros' soul punch. Auras shouldn't be LoS. Aoe's shouldn't be LoS. If LoS is really a thing DE is doing to nerf warframes then they should apply to weapons.

 

Make amprex only chain to enemies in LoS. 

Make phase's spread only hit enemies in LoS. 

Bastille with a huge range should work with enemies in LoS but if they're sneaking on your butt it doesnt do a thing. 

WELL OF LIFE????

CHAOS? 

 

DE come on. We both know LoS isnt the way to do things. Just but a lower base scaling on power strength or range. Ffs.

[Avalona]

The only abilities that should be LoS are ones that you have to manually target like Nyx's Mind Control, or Nekros' soul punch. Auras shouldn't be LoS. Aoe's shouldn't be LoS. If LoS is really a thing DE is doing to nerf warframes then they should apply to weapons.

 

Make amprex only chain to enemies in LoS. 

Make phase's spread only hit enemies in LoS. 

Bastille with a huge range should work with enemies in LoS but if they're sneaking on your butt it doesnt do a thing. 

WELL OF LIFE????

CHAOS? 

 

DE come on. We both know LoS isnt the way to do things. Just but a lower base scaling on power strength or range. Ffs.

 

Shhhh, no sarcasm, else DE will think people on forums want such changes :D

[drMightyPotato]

Warframe is not to be modeled to real life power. Actually, there is no power at all in first place in real life, and almost all the guns need to be removed too, if that is the reason you're basing on.

I know its not modeled after real life but even by the game laws i still dont get how mag can lift stuff she never saw was there in the first place unless her power lifts EVERYTHING in 360 degrees but then that doesnt excuse the fact that stuff stays lying on the ground in the first place. As it stands it doesnt say anywhere that her powers in any way shape or form (goes for other such skills as well, like avalanche) affect stuff ALL around you. Unless it states otherwise.

[ndantony]

I know its not modeled after real life but even by the game laws i still dont get how mag can lift stuff she never saw was there in the first place unless her power lifts EVERYTHING in 360 degrees but then that doesnt excuse the fact that stuff stays lying on the ground in the first place. As it stands it doesnt say anywhere that her powers in any way shape or form (goes for other such skills as well, like avalanche) affect stuff ALL around you. Unless it states otherwise.

Power. Just like Magneto's in Xmen doesn't need to see everything to control them.

[Eric1738]

mag is strong against corpus because she is designed to do so! agaisnt other factions she is more than useless.

[Archaic_]

I can't bare to see some of these comments, how can anyone think she was balanced before? Even as the Corpus' worst nightmare it was just downright strong as all h*ll. I gotta say that this change is appropriate for the viability Shield Polarize possesses. 

[EdBazokatone]

The thing is, the nerf on Shield Polarize has nothing to do with the skill on its own, it was nerfed for the wrong reasons, because they didn't know how to deal with a problem that is not related to any warframe or its abilities. Nerfing those abilities was the easy way out of that problem.

 

But the problem is still there and will come back with another form, this time was Viver.

Edited November 13, 2014 by EdBazokatone

[Nicean]

I know its not modeled after real life but even by the game laws i still dont get how mag can lift stuff she never saw was there in the first place unless her power lifts EVERYTHING in 360 degrees but then that doesnt excuse the fact that stuff stays lying on the ground in the first place. As it stands it doesnt say anywhere that her powers in any way shape or form (goes for other such skills as well, like avalanche) affect stuff ALL around you. Unless it states otherwise.

We're gonna keep repeating this here: it's not about realistic in-game laws. How can she magnetize bones? Any force required to magnetize a human being enough to actually throw them through the air would basically just leave a crater wherever the force came from. An MRI can't even come close to doing that, but it'll kill you if you have a piece of metal in your spine, for instance. If you're powerful enough to create the forces we're dealing with here, do you really think walls are things you're actually going to be worried about? Excalibur's lore describes Warframes as "warrior-gods." Normal rules simply don't apply.

 

I think talking about whether a power "makes sense" is entirely moot. What you need to consider is: "Does it create fun, balanced gameplay?" I think it removed an element of Mag's gameplay that was interesting: the interaction between her gigantic shield pool and her Shield Polarize ability. She couldn't do anything against bleeds or poison, but was deceptively durable if played conservatively. Volt is similar - but making his shield only block bullets you're looking at or not block bullets that would hit Volt would be a poor idea.

 

I don't agree with the Mag changes. At the very least, I think she should be allowed to restore her own shields. Entirely removing an aspect of a character that is not obviously broken is a poor choice. Line-of-sight? Willing to have a real discussion. But making Mag unable to restore her own shields?

 

Another concerning thing is that this makes Mag essentially a single-ability user against anything but Corpus. Her ultimate is strong for a little while, but has very little CC from a solo point of view, and eventually just becomes useless other than to stall out a little bit of time. Her 3 is strange and commonly agreed to be weak except against certain bosses (Raptor becomes a joke) and Grineer heavies (if you can hit them with it without dying). Her 2 is now almost entirely a non-factor against 2 of the 3 factions. Her 1 is still a very strong CC, but these changes removed Mag's ability to stand for long against the Grineer.

[Ionus]

I can't bare to see some of these comments, how can anyone think she was balanced before? Even as the Corpus' worst nightmare it was just downright strong as all h*ll. I gotta say that this change is appropriate for the viability Shield Polarize possesses.

For it to be optimal, the enemies had to be

1. Shielded(Corpus, corrupted are on and off)

2. Clustered together

Wide open maps are out. Grineer and Infested are out. It is a specialized ability that was actually balanced given its use being limited to a certain faction.

Mag was already in a good place and now she was overnerfed. And now her effectiveness against corpus in their OWN tiles is reduced because of the tiny hallways obstructing enemies 90% of the time. Some people have reported you also need COMPLETE line of sight, as in if they're behind a chest high railing they're unaffected.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

Unless mag has some kind of radar in her hemlet that allows her to see trough walls, not to mention pin point precision, to hit an enemy i dont see the problem... Same thing in real life, you dont shoot trough the door if you dont see the enemy, its a waste of ammo and if the enemy isnt there you just alerted them.

Don't bring logic into this to justify nerfing.  And for your information I CAN shoot through a door in warframe without seeing what's behind it and kill quite a few things; Shred is love Shred is life.

[optyk]

Unless mag has some kind of radar in her hemlet that allows her to see trough walls, not to mention pin point precision, to hit an enemy i dont see the problem... Same thing in real life, you dont shoot trough the door if you dont see the enemy, its a waste of ammo and if the enemy isnt there you just alerted them.

 

It's called a Point Blank Area of Effect(PBAoE) mechanic. Read up on it. Her ability itself is based off of a un-guided, fire and forget emp style pulse, not a targeted one.

 

And yes, we shoot through doors IRL and Warframe. Its called AP Rounds and Punch Through respectively.

 

I think the general consensus here is that the AI is pretty much already in "God mode" whether its from spotty game mechanics or just by initial design. To have players locked into a system where we are bound by 'rules' but the AI is not, is not very balanced or even 'fun'.

 

And its too late in the game and counter intuitive to add in any kind of appropriate cover system (ie Gears of War, Ghost Recon etc..).

[vaugahn]

I agree with it as an idea, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

[RiouHotaru]

Did everyone magically forget the whole "Enemies have a window after LoS is broken during which they can still be hit through geometry."  Really, that WAS in the patch notes or do people have selective memory.

[HolyDonut3]

Did everyone magically forget the whole "Enemies have a window after LoS is broken during which they can still be hit through geometry."  Really, that WAS in the patch notes or do people have selective memory.

 

And that would matter if it actually worked.

Edited November 13, 2014 by HolyDonut3

[Onida_a]

Unless mag has some kind of radar in her hemlet that allows her to see trough walls, not to mention pin point precision, to hit an enemy i dont see the problem... Same thing in real life, you dont shoot trough the door if you dont see the enemy, its a waste of ammo and if the enemy isnt there you just alerted them.

Mags 2 is, in my oppinion, similar to an emp, that said how should this not hit enemies that are not in your LoS?

[RiouHotaru]

And that would matter if it actually worked.

 

It was tested in another thread, it does work.

 

You have about a ~5 second window after an enemy breaks line of sight during which Shield Polarize and Radial Javelin will still hit the target.

[HolyDonut3]

It was tested in another thread, it does work.

 

You have about a ~5 second window after an enemy breaks line of sight during which Shield Polarize and Radial Javelin will still hit the target.

 

It also happened that enemies were unaffected by the abilities while standing in plain sight like 10m from the caster. Or enemies behind a knee-high railing being immune to the abilties.

 

Shield Polarize also fails to restore the casting Mag's shields most of the time, as the ability actually checks for LoS on the caster, and fails because the casting Mag doesn't count as being in LoS.

[Archaic_]

For it to be optimal, the enemies had to be

1. Shielded(Corpus, corrupted are on and off)

2. Clustered together

Wide open maps are out. Grineer and Infested are out. It is a specialized ability that was actually balanced given its use being limited to a certain faction.

Mag was already in a good place and now she was overnerfed. And now her effectiveness against corpus in their OWN tiles is reduced because of the tiny hallways obstructing enemies 90% of the time. Some people have reported you also need COMPLETE line of sight, as in if they're behind a chest high railing they're unaffected.

I can't understand what you're defending here, this move now requires you to move around and position yourself in other to release devastating damage against Corpus units. As for being limited, ya...just like all other abiltiies in the game. All have specific damage types and this one happens to be one that scales amazingly. It even has a secondary function to it and handy too. And it's not difficult to find clustered enemies when its explosion radius isn't that strict itself.

[RiouHotaru]

It also happened that enemies were unaffected by the abilities while standing in plain sight like 10m from the caster. Or enemies behind a knee-high railing being immune to the abilties.

 

Shield Polarize also fails to restore the casting Mag's shields most of the time, as the ability actually checks for LoS on the caster, and fails because the casting Mag doesn't count as being in LoS.

 

I had enemies move behind a room-high wall and still hit them with Javelin.  If the ability fails to connect entirely it means the enemy isn't focusing on Mag.

 

The fact Shield Polarize  fails to restore Mag's shields is probably a bug, not an LoS check.

[LukeAura]

I don't agree with the Mag nerf. It's unjustified, regardless of what it brings. It should have been made or not made with more thought involved and clearly not in a response to its usage on Viver. 
Corpus come in a lot of small hallways, tight corners. Meaning LoS will hit very inconsistently. Two enemies standing side by side behind cover, one may get hit the other may not because they ran behind that cover from different locations relative to the frame.
The grineer are a little more open in their designs, there's more room, and with the infested it doesn't really matter because the bulk of the horde is either already on you, or you're going to get swarmed from enemies outside the area of effect any ways. A few more or less that are going to come after you within the area don't matter. 
On a purely Corpus affecting ability, LoS probably isn't the best choice.
That being said, I find it isn't crippling. It might damage enemy shields pretty heavily, but that isn't all that impressive without major power strength investment. What is impressive with it is the AoE damage off of shields to other enemies. So if you're not facing down a horde of packed together corpus with their shield ospreys, why ARE you using it any ways? With lots of scattered enemies, it's not going to do what you want. Unless you need to restore your own shields, in which case you're not particularly worried about what it does to enemies either.  

Edited November 13, 2014 by LukeAura

[Nicean]

 

Edited November 13, 2014 by Nicean