De Doesn't Understand Viver

[zoboso]

I find it odd that beyond the immaculate initial post, the rest of the threads have been about how great the post is and there is no disagreement or difference of opinion. I'm just worried that because of the lack of discussion this thread will die without it's message making it to DE, though I must assume that the result shown is intentional until proven otherwise.

[Flowen231]

I find it odd that beyond the immaculate initial post, the rest of the threads have been about how great the post is and there is no disagreement or difference of opinion. I'm just worried that because of the lack of discussion this thread will die without it's message making it to DE, though I must assume that the result shown is intentional until proven otherwise.

Just goes to show you how good that one post was lol. There was one guy that disagreed though, I think we're all ignoring him because he's smoking some good S#&$ though.

 

Back on topic, very nice feedback OP, I'm gonna borrow this thread and throw it in the face of a buddy of mine who mindlessly white knights for DE, let's see what he says then lol.

[enderian.]

This is such a well put-together presentation of the problem. I can only hope that DE is smart enough (even simply for their own future financial interest) to listen to this kind of logic. Thank you for putting this together. It's an intelligent reprieve from the onslaught of rage I've seen so far.

[MichaelSD]

Sometimes I feel the devs do not understand many things in their own game, not just Viver. :(

[FearTheRush]

Bumping until DE posts and acknowledges this thread. 

[Glitchesarecool]

I find it odd that beyond the immaculate initial post, the rest of the threads have been about how great the post is and there is no disagreement or difference of opinion. I'm just worried that because of the lack of discussion this thread will die without it's message making it to DE, though I must assume that the result shown is intentional until proven otherwise.

 

Admittedly DE should have these numbers easily at hand since they designed the system. This shouldn't be revealing anything to them, other than the fact that we as players have noticed how absurd this whole system is.

[FearTheRush]

What happened to this thread having a blue star on the left side? 

[Moted]

Well made post on explaining all this +1 on that.

I just don't get how the DE made a formula for the points. Thats just non sense associating one experience bar to another. Thats mathematical error, leading to infinite grind. By having all this data made by player, they should at least, have more data with them. Making them less professional as an enterprise, never mind about the game. 

 

Far as I know you wont release one product (in this case update) without analysing if thats what people want and if its really viable solution to put higher quality on current product. So making players scared investing into the game to it develop to black hole or correcting mistakes (Mistakes are human, but client satisfaction is first when its all about product).

[Katakuna]

Man, I knew the rep grind was intentionally designed to be long, but that second chart is just soul-crushing.

[HunterKi11er]

Bravo.

 

I have to wonder if DE even created that graph for themselves before they implemented syndicates.

[FearTheRush]

Bravo.

 

I have to wonder if DE even created that graph for themselves before they implemented syndicates.

DE failed to make the rewards worth the endless grind that the reputation system is. If they actually gave us AMAZING end game content for grinding that long people wouldn't be that mad at the time sink. The grind even with Viver and no line of sight still seemed endless to me for such crappy rewards.

[HonestOrangeAppleHorse]

When I first saw Sigils and how they needed to be equipped in order to gain standing, I was under the impression that higher ranking Sigils would give a greater multiplier to standing gain. Seeing as how they don't, why in the love of Christ would I ever want to waste my hard earned standing on something that benefits me in no way?

[FearTheRush]

When I first saw Sigils and how they needed to be equipped in order to gain standing, I was under the impression that higher ranking Sigils would give a greater multiplier to standing gain. Seeing as how they don't, why in the love of Christ would I ever want to waste my hard earned standing on something that benefits me in no way?

Exactly DE has made an impossibly long grind for mediocre rewards. The whole system is straight garbage and them nerfing conclave rep gains and then nerfing multiple warframes to slow us down even more is just sickening.

[protomanex14]

+1 DE please read this or comment before, or even after the devstream

[Dreamwalk3r]

Just perfect. Bumping for great justice.

[fractal_magnets]

Informative and horrifying.

+1

*goes back to the corner and continues to cry*

[Yurilica]

I find it odd that beyond the immaculate initial post, the rest of the threads have been about how great the post is and there is no disagreement or difference of opinion. I'm just worried that because of the lack of discussion this thread will die without it's message making it to DE, though I must assume that the result shown is intentional until proven otherwise.

 

Oh don't worry, this thread gained enough exposure by being linked on Reddit/4chan/other discussions on this forum.

 

There's also not much discussion about it since it's hard to argue cold, hard math. All you can really say is: "good job mate".

Devs can only say "we dun goofed up" and whoever approved these changes would be suicidal to post that he did. Though it was probably Steve. :P

 

Though it would be helpful if Steve would acknowledge that he actually read it in its entirety, then think about it next time the thought "gaming the system" slips from his mind into his mouth during a live stream.

 

EDIT:

 

Actually, about the math, specifically where players reported that they gained 9000 Reputation Standing per Viver run.

You can reach 9k only with Affinity Boosters active.

So it's 4.5k effective, 9k boosted.

 

Now let that sink in for a second. Players have been purchasing boosters for that. Using Plat, which costs money usually. Money that DE received during this whole "gaming the system" incident.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Yurilica

[SlyBoots]

-snip-

 

that's one side of it certainly, but you've highlighted another problem. it's all about endless horde modes, every other mission type is left in the dust (see below). we've told that DE over and over again (shameless plug: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/240511-tired-of-endless-slaughter/) and all they've added is mostly more endless horde modes.

 

Just ran Pluto, 31-33 Exterminate mission:

 

 

Thats how much syndicate points I got, WITH A BOOSTER. Its insulting.

 

if they can't be arsed to properly reward capture, exterminate, sabotage, hijack, rescue, deception, spy, assassination - more than half of their mission types - no change to a part of their progression system is going to cut it. so, yea, DE essentialy doesn't only not understand viver but their whole progression system vs mission structure.

Edited November 14, 2014 by SlyBoots

[Thaumatos]

I've said it once, I'll say it again.

 

Someone at DE is on the design team, making decisions, implementing changes, and is a poor person to ask what 2 + 2 is.

 

Maybe that person has all the awesome ideas.  Great.  Just keep him/her away from math-related stuff please.

[Eric1738]

good post

but i'm pretty sure DE know those numbers. they designed the system afterall.

i think devs from now on need to play their game more, much more. not on the dev build, but on the actual game. please dont sit in front of your pc and play around numbers. play your game as a norml player, so u can understand how painful some of your changes are to the players.

[Thaumatos]

good post

but i'm pretty sure DE know those numbers. they designed the system afterall.

You'd be surprised.

 

A lot of times numbers are just placed at a 'feel good' point.  Hence my post above yours ;)

Edited November 14, 2014 by Thaumatos

[KuroShiranui]

Whoa, you just showed some statistics and boom! More than 300 likes. 
 

Great post.

[HAYABU5A]

wow this thread has grown exponentially

OP thoughts cut straight to core of current issues and everyone cant help but recognize what they have been trying to put into words 

[Lunamaniac]

I agree with the idea of detaching syndicate reputation from affinity.  They're two distinct systems so I feel they could very easily reward different styles of play.

[HuzzelMuzzel]

Thank you for that great analysis of the problem. Very good work.

 

You solution is good to heal the pain with syndicates and gaining rep. But the core problem is, that we are getting one grind wall one after another instead of meaningful (lore oriented) and/or challenging gameplay.