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Vivergate: Vent Radioactive Gas Y/n

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just make ultimates uncastable untill a player moves a little. sod the LOS stuff, it's really not reliable enough and "4" spamming is a problem but it's only a problem for lower level enemies and the corpus (which dont get 4 spammed)


a way to fix the corpus? don't give them more sheilds then HP thus stopping them all being instagibbed by mag every second.


for all the other frames the 4 spamming is only annoying at low levels. e.g. rhinoob's stomp oblitorates everything. just make the ultimates more tactical and less nukable like nyx's ult. a good portion of people who play her is because she uses tactics and precise casting times not just HURR DURR I HIT 4 AND WIN...


also to stop ult spam from just one spot make the frames run a bit before they can be re cast...

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B...better nerf Trinity. *dies inside*


The point is valid though, the only time someone brings out their Trinity is to give everyone infinite energy. Instead of continued nerfs to EV, it might be time to face the music and replace it entirely.


This isn't like Ember where the super offensive frame gets super tanky which makes NO sense.  Trinity revolves around support.  On top of that, Trinity is also brought out due to her Blessing and Link, considering that's 3 abilities(Compared to, say, Nekros' 1), I'd say there are more important frames.  Also, yes, a Trinity helps, but just having them doesn't equal 30 wave insta win or anything like that.  Basically, Trinity doesn't need an EV replacement, she doesn't need EV nerfs, she just needs EV back where it was.  All her skills were fine(Besides maybe Well of Life needing to not suck but she has Blessing).


Edit: Going to also link to this topic in the hopes that DE actually reads it  https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345102-de-doesnt-understand-viver/

Edited by UFOLoche
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LoS still needs to go.  The game is not designed to work well with abilities that use LoS.  If you want to keep LoS then you need to do some massive overhalling of level design.  LoS as a balancing factor is a huge mistake as things stand.  I understand that you guys want to get rid of the press 4 to win problem but I just don't think you are going about it the right way.  Using line of sight make abilities unreliable.


And also this... so much this...

Rework the reputation system, please. Viver is not the source of the problem, it's a symptom.

Syndicates themselves are a huge problem and they also let us shine a huge light on a lot of problems with the game.


You guys should revert the warframe nerfs immediately until you can properly think some changes through.

Edited by ClockworkSpectre
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I don't think I can add much more that wasn't said already. What I can say is:





God speed, Steve. 

Edited by Kinperor
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Thank you for such a polite and well worded response to concerns and feedback that were anything but polite and well worded. I for one completely support LoS in the for some abilities, though not all, and I am sure it will prove to be a fine tactical addition to the game once it is all worked out. The press 4 to win problem has been an issue since the very beginning of the game, and I am interested to see how you will next attempt to curb it. 

Keep in mind, though, despite your best efforts and intentions, there will always be a small player base that will strive to exploit every possible time/effort saver and reduce the game to its most basic, and un-fun, mechanics. 


Best of luck, and thank you!

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Just going to leave this here for a while: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345152-come-on-de-get-it-together-big-thread/



Steve I really think you guys push forward more to get community made content in through a system, it is clear that with more and more mechanical systems content is harder to focus on, the community can make a large portion of the game for you.


Additionally, considering it is on Eris, can Viver not get an interior designed infested map?

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Welp, atleast our devs do have feelings and say sorry for what they did unlike other game developers who don't give a f*** and just go on as if nothing happened.


I'm looking at ALL of you devs out there who are not from DE òwó y u no learn how to be nice?

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Can't help but notice that you still do not understand what the cause of the problem and farming actually is.




EDIT: Not to say that I don't appreciate the apology, but attempting a second fix while still not understanding what the problem actually is does not have a much higher chance of fixing the problem than the first attempt.

Edited by Rydian
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The game just has a plethera of small issues that mass accumulated into the Viver debate (4spam, rep, enemy spawns, grinding, etc). Clearing these issues out takes time, which is understandable, and most of us really try to be patient with it all. Spam 4 is going to the hardest to tackle, because many players have long adapted to this style of play.


The game just needs some things to be looked at, and, sadly, adding new content only makes this process harder and longer. We don't need more shelving for out figurines; our figurines need some cleaning.


Keep us posted.

Edited by R34LM
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you know i think i'm just happy they said sorry (even though the  update didn't really effect me much), you know how hard it is to accept ones fault after making some big mess?


the funny thing is it's usually only steve that says sorry.. even for other people like when the UI dev team broke U14...


for that i have nothing but utter respect for steve even if he comes across as a bit of a laugh and not too serious. he's the one that knows what needs to be said and when.. the rest of the devs mostly just avoid answering direct questions about their decisions and also avoid saying sorry if they where wong.

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The problem wasn't the map. the problem was that map was never meant for intercept in the first place. It was a defense map which was meant to have just one defense spot, not four. Naturally it ended up being a bit too small and that's why viver happened in the first place. Viver wasn't a blip on anyone's radar until Syndicates came out because xp has never been that important.


In truly high level game play most people aren't just spamming 4, because enemies stop being gibbed by ultimates so people switch to crowd control. There's too big a gap between low level and high level play with virtually no mid level range because difficulty spikes rather suddenly.


I'm really worried about changes to energy or abilities because it'd be easy to screw it up horribly.


Just change viver to a proper intercept map like the one on cerberus and see if the issues persist. Cerberus is a much larger map which would make it far more difficult to exploit in the way viver was being abused.

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DE Steve, its good to see you have recognised the faults made with the changes that were more of a panic spray than a proper fix, going through most of the feedback in the forums is also a nightmareish task with new threads being made every minute, but at current its best to focus on the real problems, how reputation is gained and the syndicate reward systems in general.


EXP farming, mod farming, heck even rescource farming is something that has been arround for a long time, they arent a problem.  reputation farming shouldnt have been a problem either, but sadly the method in which we had to go about it was.  viver was fine as a grind spot for those that wanted to grind, afterall it is a way to play the game.  but because it was the most efficient way of farming for rep in particular it became a negative to some sections of the community.  simply changing the map is fine but wont fix the inherant problem players have with the rep grind.


also we can all agree letting macros play the game for you is a flat out "no" and the people who felt viver was a macro grind rather than a team effort helping bring about this half way appocolypse, tho i dissagree with this view of press 4 to win.  one way to sort out ult skills is to actually make them take a while longer to cast, that way they arent a simple save all, but a use only when necesary tool, as when banshee got her first quake nerf i remember people dropping like flies from how vulnerable they had become.

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This fall, starting with Excalibur, we’ve begun to take a hard look at these ‘X-Ray AOE’ abilities and wonder if we can bring more elements of skill back in. That’s the short answer

Remember Damage 2.0, Steve? Remember how thorough you guys were because quote "[Damage 2.0] touches everything"?

Please. I know you guys are working at 110% capacity, but Please remember that changes are drops of water, and they ripple far and wide. Each change "touches everything."

We, your community, are literally jumping out of our chairs to offer our help. Use us! 100,000 eyes are better than 1!

Edited by Archistopheles
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If you're asking.


Fastest way to fix Ultimate spam and the Homer's drinking bird paradox is to give ultimates that do dmg a bigger CD and a dmg buff and make them a functional "Oh **** " button than a "I shall now press this button 1 million times and loot will pop out whenever I do!".


Other ideas? Tie syndicate rep to accomplishing the mission. But for the love of my sanity make it over 2000 or something. I'd love to feel some real progress and not get 80 rep points and a pat on the back. Or tie it to the difficulty of the mission. Just make it set so we can't fiddle with it unless we use a better Sigil or something. Oh and please make the different sigils give more rep. Pretty please?


You could diversify the sigils in fact. One sigil gave a credit boost one gives an EXP boost and one gives a rep boost and one gives a resource boost. We'd always have a reason to wear one and buy them and we'd be rewarded for progressing.


I don't want a Korean grinder! That is basically MMO HELL for a casual player like me who gets dragged back in by friends every now and again. Syndicates without Viver are basically a "Aww hell naw!" mechanic for someone who has put any considerable time into this.


Well. That's my 2 cents.


Have a good day ya'll.


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You want to add skill based gameplay? Fine, but it's not something that should be done without informing the player base. Sweeping "nerfs" like these affect everyone adversely and the only sense we got from it was it's Viver's fault.


Most people will tell you that the problems stems from something greater, the reputation system as a whole, yet it fell on deaf ears it seems.


I don't post often but I had to say my piece on this one. Veterans expect the nerfs, we're some of the first to adapt to new strategies as is now the case with Viver. It's the new players that I feel for when things like this happens, they don't have access to the ressources we do. (i.e I have every frame + taters, and a wide variety of weaponry). So that new guy who chose Mag or Excal to begin with just got railroaded.


It's not a pleasant experience, least of all for them, and it will cause unneccesary atrophy in your retention rate.

Let's be honest Stevebro & friends, we love you. It's apparent in the successes your game has been able to achieve with our support. Don't neglect your greatest ressource, the playerbase. Talk to us, create discussions for sweeping changes, keep us in the loop and you'll be hard pressed to start another fallout like these.


As we say in my profession: Measure twice, cut once.





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There is a youtube video a player who goes by "Mogomu" uploaded. If anyone would be alright with watching it he brings up valid points and suggestions with how to create solutions.


I don't know Mogomu, i fully hope this is purely informational and enlightening in a few paths that can be taken. Regardless if the DE's decide on a different path to take, i'm just saying he brings up some valid points and his opinions aren't too badly thought.


Everyone who understand the mechanics of Warframe and applied they're knowledge were not intending to abuse the system (or so i would hope). But to enjoy the game. i like the suggestions he has about "nerfing" the warframes, you reward players with different mechanics of a new rewards system. Getting rep points for these new "Syndicates" shouldn't be solely on expereince gain per mission and/or specific "alert missions". I am not a fan of games that picks a number and adds lots of zeros, The game should be a fun shooter game, not a grind fest. It's my personal opinion that rep points should be rewarded as of extra points for each headshot you do, melee kill, stealth kill, etc.


If i may reiterate, this is just an idea. If it's not that good of an idea then hope it wasn't a waste of time to veiw/look at.

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This is good that abilities are being looked into; one example most MMOs do is put a really strong ability on a short (in MMO time) cooldowns, from 5, 10, or even 120 minutes (FFXI) but these are abilities that can change the outcome of a fight. I feel like the ultimate abilities should be strong, on cool downs, but the other abilities be good enough to use in between them; as some people have mentioned, have them scale to enemy hp or something.

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While pressing 4 to win was always an easy way around some of the gameplay aspects... but in all honesty:


Viver and the Warframe abilities weren't a problem before the lackluster Syndicate Repfarming was a thing.


Before the Reputation system nobody gave two cents about Viver. And even if Viver as well as several Warframe abilitities get changed, as well as the Interception mode and the devil knows what... people will still find another spot to farm the reputation and exploit/abuse other Warframes and other tricks. It's a neverending cycle until everything gets nerfhammered but the actual source of the problem is allowed to remain.


It's basically the fact that many people, especial the Veterans can't be arsed for the grind anymore and they have all the gear and stuff to find a way around the uncreative, uninspired and boring reputation grind.


It's basically how the Reputation system works that is causing all the trouble we didn't have before that was a thing.


So my advice is... just work on another way to gain reputation... make it mission based instead of affinity based... whatever... there are like 10-15 threads out there on how to deal with the syndicates & reputation problem in the first place and stuff like Viver, as well as the Warframe abilities would be fixed as a side effect of them.


Changing the Warframes was definitely no good idea because that rendered some of them lackluster again

Changing the Interception gamemode was no good idea because of how it affects even Solo gameplay as well as completely unrelated Archwing gameplay which was near to impossible to accomplish already on Uranus before the 15.2 update and now leaves you in an even worse spot because the Grineer have all the advantages thanks to the new rules that are applied on a global scale


Also there are several other problems like the massive imbalance in the economy thanks to how some people made tons of Platinum of the issue and it will continue to be like that when people find other farmspots if the general problem (the reputation grind) is not fixed, creating an even larger gap between elitists/veterans and casual players.


How's that huge gap that has been created over the past two weeks going to be dealt with?





At least I'm quite surprised that the discussion in the developer workshop like I adviced in other threads... at least... works somehow, even if there are still quite a lot people letting some steam off.^^

Edited by MeduSalem
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