Why Not Merge Armor Pierce/armor Ignore?

[Argoms]

The difference between armor ignore (the damage type of bolt/arrow weapons- paris, boltor, bolto) and armor pierce (elemental damage type added through mods) seems to just confuse everyone while not really doing that much. Is there any reason why the two shouldn't be merged so that the current armor ignore weapons just do armor piercing damage instead of normal damage by default?

[Nazarel]

I thought the armor piercing/puncture mods should go together.

[Engelheim]

Whilst bolt and many melee weapons are good against everything because of armor ignore;,making them armor pierce only will make them ineffective against infected even though there will be added damage to corpus and grineer.

[SolluxCaptorTA]

But then Grineer have no special elemental vulnerability, or Bolt weapons would suck hard.

[Umbranox]

The difference between armor ignore (the damage type of bolt/arrow weapons- paris, boltor, bolto) and armor pierce (elemental damage type added through mods) seems to just confuse everyone while not really doing that much. Is there any reason why the two shouldn't be merged so that the current armor ignore weapons just do armor piercing damage instead of normal damage by default?

 Armor piercing is essentially the same as normal damage mods on weapons that ignore armor. 

I thought the armor piercing/puncture mods should go together.

 Puncture has nothing to do with armor piecing. Puncture sends a shot X distance beyond whatever it hit, allowing multiple targets or shooting through walls with one bullet whereas armor piercing adds on a percentage of the base damage that will ignore armor. Edited April 25, 2013 by Umbranox

[Nazarel]

 Armor piercing is essentially the same as normal damage mods on weapons that ignore armor.  

 

 Puncture has nothing to do with armor piecing. Puncture sends a shot X distance beyond whatever it hit, allowing multiple targets or shooting through walls with one bullet whereas armor piercing adds on a percentage of the base damage that will ignore armor.

 

Nah I know in game the stats, I just meant when it pierces armor, it clearly has enough force to pass through a body and out the other side. I mean in my mind that's how it works. I'm aware they are two different things.

[Argoms]

Whilst bolt and many melee weapons are good against everything because of armor ignore;,making them armor pierce only will make them ineffective against infected even though there will be added damage to corpus and grineer.

How does this make them ineffective? 

[krisp]

The difference between armor ignore (the damage type of bolt/arrow weapons- paris, boltor, bolto) and armor pierce (elemental damage type added through mods) seems to just confuse everyone while not really doing that much. Is there any reason why the two shouldn't be merged so that the current armor ignore weapons just do armor piercing damage instead of normal damage by default?

Are you serious? AP is the best elemental damage mod there is, it S#&$s on everything else and works against the toughest enemies. Armor ignore just means the gun does full damage on anything except bosses, who have different kinds of armor.

[Argoms]

Are you serious? AP is the best elemental damage mod there is, it S#&$s on everything else and works against the toughest enemies. Armor ignore just means the gun does full damage on anything except bosses, who have different kinds of armor.

Do people even read before jumping on posts?

 

 

I said there isn't much of a difference between armor IGNORE, as used by the boltor/bolto/akbolto/paris, and armor PIERCING.

[Engelheim]

How does this make them ineffective? 

Because normal infected take 50% damage from AP on body.

[Argoms]

Because normal infected take 50% damage from AP on body.

Hm. Makes sense, I guess.

[Zectifin]

Its kind of stupid separate armor piercing and puncture. Stat wise I understand but talking about how physics works, you can't pass through a solid objectwithout piercing its friggin armor.

[Argoms]

Its kind of stupid separate armor piercing and puncture. Stat wise I understand but talking about how physics works, you can't pass through a solid objectwithout piercing its friggin armor.

Don't try and bring physics into this. We can freeze something and set it on fire at the same time, magically create a second bullet without expending ammunition, and apparently generate bolts out of thin air.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

 Armor piercing is essentially the same as normal damage mods on weapons that ignore armor.  

Except for corpus crewman heads, which suffer that amazing 2000% damage bonus to AP damage but don't get any such bonus to armor ignoring damage, AFAIK.

[Dasmir]

The difference between armor ignore (the damage type of bolt/arrow weapons- paris, boltor, bolto) and armor pierce (elemental damage type added through mods) seems to just confuse everyone while not really doing that much. Is there any reason why the two shouldn't be merged so that the current armor ignore weapons just do armor piercing damage instead of normal damage by default?

 

i should be a huge nerf to bolt type weapons against infested and unessesary buff against grieners.

[Thaumatos]

All damage adding mods stack a new damage type on to the weapon.  I think that's the main issue with them in the first place.

 

Armor piercing mods should be a cancellation of armor, Fire/Frost/Electric mods should be a % chance to add an effect per hit, and the damage of all weapons can go up to reflect the potential decrease of effectiveness.

 

Honestly, I'm tired of everyone slotting ice in everything because it just makes all actions 1/2 speed 100% of the time on all targets hit regardless of the strength of the mod.  On the same note, it kinda diminishes the elemental abilities of warframes designed around said element.

[Buddlschlumpf]

There is no difference between armor piercing and armor ignore? It's the same thing, just two different words. There is a difference between puncture (going through objects and hitting things behind them) and armor piercing (full damage against armor).

 

The special thing about armor piercing weapons like boltor akbolto etc. is that already their base damage is armor piercing instead of normal. That makes them especially effective against armored targets.

 

And to make one thing clear as some people seem to not know this: Elemental dmg does not change the damage of your weapon. Elemental damage ADDs damage of this type. That's why armor piercing mods work just fine on armor piercing weapons because you get more of the good stuff.

[krisp]

Do people even read before jumping on posts?

 

 

I said there isn't much of a difference between armor IGNORE, as used by the boltor/bolto/akbolto/paris, and armor PIERCING.

OH PLEASE EXCUSE ME, I thought "while not doing that much" actually meant "while not doing that much". I GUESS I SHOULD LEARN TO READ

[Argoms]

OH PLEASE EXCUSE ME, I thought "while not doing that much" actually meant "while not doing that much". I GUESS I SHOULD LEARN TO READ

Well isn't that ironic.

 

"The difference between armor ignore (the damage type of bolt/arrow weapons- paris, boltor, bolto) and armor pierce (elemental damage type added through mods) seems to just confuse everyone while not really doing that much."

[aszabo]

Enemies take different damage from armor piercing damage and normal damage that ignores armor. For example a headshot on grineer does 100% normal and 200% armor piercing damage. So if you hit for 100 normal damage that ignores armor you hit for 100 damage. If you hit for 50 normal and 25 armor piercing damage you hit for 100 damage. Armor ignore is NOT armor piercing. From what I have heard and read bolt weapons do a seperate damage type that is not really well documented but in most cases is the same as normal armor ignore. 

 

The mods state +% armor piercing. A plus sign indicates additional not conversion. It is not really that confusing if you take the text at face value.

 

While ap does reduced damage to normal infested it is not useless because it applies additional damage and you will want ap against ancients.

Edited April 25, 2013 by aszabo

[krisp]

Well isn't that ironic.

 

"The difference between armor ignore (the damage type of bolt/arrow weapons- paris, boltor, bolto) and armor pierce (elemental damage type added through mods) seems to just confuse everyone while not really doing that much."

*throws up hands*