Continued Exclusive Gifts To Founders Makes Us Feel A Bit Left Out

[-FV-Wsocks]

The post is about founders being obscured. A "dedication package" would alienate those that already paid for other packages, those that contributed in other ways, and those who haven't played for over a year apparently. That's not what's being argued here. Are you responding to someone specific? If you want something to "flaunt," try your exclusive event weapons and badges. Your idea would create problems.

I agree that offering a set of exclusives or even a title to older players without community consent would be another thing that newer players who've even only been playing for months would feel is unfair. I personally wouldn't suggest this as a solution. 

[crafturtoemc]

Please do not attempt to place words in my mouth. I have very clearly said many times that I do not want anything extra. I appreciate the support you're showing the thread by commenting but If you would like to suggest that both you and I are asking for the same thing, that's simply not the case. I disagree that DE should offer exclusive content solely based on time played unless it's part of a system that has been publicly discussed and decided on with the help of the community. While it seems we differ on ideas to solve our concerns, it seems that we agree that at times we can feel underappreciated. If you feel strongly enough about what you think is a solution to this problem, It would probably be seen more easily in a new thread, but please do not confuse my message any further by suggesting that I want something for veteran players simply because they are veterans. There are already too many people on this thread who seem to be missing the point and who are angry at the small change that I am suggesting, please don't give them the idea that I want a larger change. 

 

Lol...I mean like, even we missed the founder packs.. you know that when I saw warframe at 2013, I dont even want to play it.. I dont even looked at it! These founder risked their $$$ and they didnt even know the game would live this long. So I think they deserved it! As long as DE dont give ingame advantage for founders!

[-FV-Wsocks]

I'm a non-Founder and I don't feel left out or anything even remotely close to it when I read or see DE's thanks to Founders. I fail to see why anyone would feel enough "DE doesn't like me as much as Founders" to dedicate a rather convoluted thread about it and demand DE's concern over it. I guess there really isn't an answer other than "get over it"? 

The fact that you share my status but not my concern does not make my point any less valid. Some people will agree with the idea that I've proposed and others will not. I hope you don't intend to discount my entire argument solely on the basis that you are not a Founder yet you don't agree with me.

[-FV-Wsocks]

Lol...I mean like, even we missed the founder packs.. you know that when I saw warframe at 2013, I dont even want to play it.. I dont even looked at it! These founder risked their $$$ and they didnt even know the game would live this long. So I think they deserved it! As long as DE dont give ingame advantage for founders!

I have said many times that I don't want Founders to stop receiving thanks in the form of sigils, badges, or in game cosmetics of any kind. The idea is that publicly distributing them could have the effect of making non-Founder supporters feel as though there support is overshadowed by that of the Founders. 

[crafturtoemc]

I have said many times that I don't want Founders to stop receiving thanks in the form of sigils, badges, or in game cosmetics of any kind. The idea is that publicly distributing them could have the effect of making non-Founder supporters feel as though there support is overshadowed by that of the Founders. 

 

 

But... its like badges, founder deserved the new sigils! So you mean they should not received the sigils in that way or what...I dont get you ;/ 

[-FV-Wsocks]

Well, considering that the post you quoted was asking you direct questions instead of raising an argument, the answer would either be no, or what argument? The question were fairly direct, but I'll try to simplify.

Soon or later, non-founders will learn about any new founder exclusives. It's going to happen, and can't be prevented. So since hiding the information is futile, how far do you think they have to go to prevent non-founders from learning about that information? If a solution satisfies you, but not someone else, what then? Should they go further, or is the next person the one asking for an unreasonable solution to a problem that doesn't need solving?

It's probably unintentional, but you've given the impression that you really haven't thought this through, despite numerous posts. Regurgitating the same arguement over and over without addressing reasonable questions others have raised about your idea isn't very compelling. And believe me, I've done you the courtesy of reading every word of every post you've written in this thread. You have a habit of writing responses that don't relate to the posts you quote.

Many in this thread have asked very basic questions about your idea that you don't seem to have answers to. If you refuse take your idea seriously enough to answer them, then I see no reason DE should take the idea seriously, especially since they will definitely want those answers before they consider a change how they do business.

Not saying they won't, but I wouldn't bet on it. After all, if you can't convince someone in the same situation as you of the need for a solution, what chance is there of convincing DE?

I'd like to remind yet another person that just because this post stays up in the forums, it does not mean that it will be streamlined directly to DE and downloaded into their brains, forcing them to deal with the issue exactly as I've suggested. I've  simply brought up concerns that I think are relevant and if DE chooses to address them, that is a choice that they will make on their own without the help of myself. I'm 'regurgitating the same argument' because I've only ever had one argument to begin with. I'm doing my best to keep the topic on topic. I'm sorry if I can't answer every question like 'This is all because you're just jealous, isn't it?!' but those comments that choose to try to discount my argument based on my character and not on the substance of the post, are going to get the same response. 

[-FV-Wsocks]

But... its like badges, founder deserved the new sigils! So you mean they should not received the sigils in that way or what...I dont get you ;/ 

 

 

I have said many times that I don't want Founders to stop receiving thanks in the form of sigils, badges, or in game cosmetics of any kind. The idea is that publicly distributing them could have the effect of making non-Founder supporters feel as though there support is overshadowed by that of the Founders. 

[AlfeyBoi]

Hi guise, Founder here. I thought I might weigh in on this topic.

 

Current supporters are just as important as Founders, but Founders took a greater risk with their contribution. Founders' stuff should remain exclusive to Founders. That said, there should be a rewards system implemented for supporting the game. Sort of a life-time measurement of how much Plat you have PURCHASED (not obtained via Trading Post) and a system to reward you after reaching certain tiers. The idea of retroactive application would have to be discussed, but for the sake of fairness, if everyone started out with a clean slate, everyone would be equally rewarded for supporting the game. Yeah you run into the whole "I've already contributed X amount to this game, I should get Y tier" situation, but it would be an even playing field for everyone.

 

I dunno, this idea might not suit everyone, but it's all I got.

 

(edit: I'm going to freely admit I did not read this entire thread before posting this. if what I said has already been suggested, um... sorry.)

Edited November 16, 2014 by Kesmus

[crafturtoemc]

LOL...The game would be long dead and you wont be here without founder's support... They deserved the future advantages for cosmetics. 

[Reshasis]

I have no idea why some people keep harping on about never being able to get this and that, it was part of the kickstarter and the early phases of the game, before it took off into what it is today. We gambled on a product and were rewarded, now everybody who jumped on the bandwagon after all of the early risks disappeared wants a slice of the same cake? I say no. The items are all cosmetic, apart from the Skana Prime and the Lato Prime and even then those two weapons are no where near as good as, say, the Dakra Prime and the Sicarus Prime. It's only right that Bright purity be made to work with the Skana Prime since it's outclassed by so many things now a days.

 

You know what? I actually want DE to give founders Aklato Prime and Dual Skana Prime at one point or another. Mostly because we have to deal with a bunch of people throwing mountains of crap at us constantly for having the "audacity" to have actually kickstarted this game and helping it grow in its early stages because threads like these are growing more tiresome by the day.

 

PS. I haven't bought any of the Prime Access packs, does that mean I have the right to complain that those scarves and other cosmetic stuff is permanently unavailable to me? Hell no.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Reshasis

[-FV-Wsocks]

Hi guise, Founder here. I thought I might weigh in on this topic.

 

Current supporters are just as important as Founders, but Founders took a greater risk with their contribution. Founders' stuff should remain exclusive to Founders. That said, there should be a rewards system implemented for supporting the game. Sort of a life-time measurement of how much Plat you have PURCHASED (not obtained via Trading Post) and a system to reward you after reaching certain tiers. The idea of retroactive application would have to be discussed, but for the sake of fairness, if everyone started out with a clean slate, everyone would be equally rewarded for supporting the game. Yeah you run into the whole "I've already contributed X amount to this game, I should get Y tier" situation, but it would be an even playing field for everyone.

 

I dunno, this idea might not suit everyone, but it's all I got.

 

(edit: I'm going to freely admit I did not read this entire thread before posting this. if what I said has already been suggested, um... sorry.)

People have informed of the risk that the Founders made by choosing to support a game that they were not sure would succeed but unfortunately I was told in the same breath that because of this, no amount of support however large could possibly hope to compare to what the Founders did. I think that rewarding those who choose to purchase large amounts of plat wouldn't be much different from the rewards offered through the referral program, so I'd expect the reward to be something like a small, unimpressive cosmetic or mod bonus that is simply 'different.' That's just I expect would be implemented if DE did indeed choose to reward those who buy large amounts of plat. 

[-FV-Wsocks]

LOL...The game would be long dead and you wont be here without founder's support... They deserved the future advantages for cosmetics. 

I've tried to explain this twice to you so I'll try to be less confusing with my message this time. 

Yes. The founders should continue to receive bonuses. They should get sigils, and badges and other nice things. My argument was never against that. 

I know the game might not have survived without the support of the Founders and I created an entire section in the post dedicated to how much we appreciate what the Founders have actually done. 

[-FV-Wsocks]

I have no idea why some people keep harping on about never being able to get this and that, it was part of the kickstarter and the early phases of the game, before it took off into what it is today. We gambled on a product and were rewarded, now everybody who jumped on the bandwagon after all of the early risks disappeared wants a slice of the same cake? I say no. The items are all cosmetic, apart from the Skana Prime and the Lato Prime and even then those two weapons are no where near as good as, say, the Dakra Prime and the Sicarus Prime. It's only right that Bright purity be made to work with the Skana Prime since it's outclassed by so many things now a days.

 

You know what? I actually want DE to give founders Aklato Prime and Dual Skana Prime at one point or another. Mostly because we have to deal with a bunch of people throwing mountains of crap at us constantly for having the "audacity" to have actually kickstarted this game and helping it grow in its early stages because threads like these are growing more tiresome by the day.

 

PS. I haven't bought any of the Prime Access packs, does that mean I have the right to complain that those scarves and other cosmetic stuff is permanently unavailable to me? Hell no.

I appreciate the support that yourself and all of the other Founders showed the game in it's earliest stages. I'm sure that everyone who knows the Founders exist recognise the faith that their support took and agree that their gifts should be both exclusive and continuing. No one here is advocating for the re release of any items included in the Founders pack. You earned your cake fair and square and I personally do not pretend for a second that I deserve a slice. As long as the Aklato Prime and the Dual Skana did not exceed the damage output of non exclusive weapons, I think altering the weapons in such a way that would encourage the Founders to feel that they have some use other than as wall ornaments, would be justly deserved and agreeable to all parties. No one is complaining that it's unfair that we can't have the contents of any closed promotional. We are not asking for the wraith items, the Prime Access packs, or the Founders pack to be re opened or that it's unfair that they won't be. 

[akira_him]

They need to inform those who are not founders about those founder-only cosmetics in order to stop people asking "what's that fancy cosmetic, do I have any chance to have that?"

and that's what the patch notes does

[AlfeyBoi]

People have informed of the risk that the Founders made by choosing to support a game that they were not sure would succeed but unfortunately I was told in the same breath that because of this, no amount of support however large could possibly hope to compare to what the Founders did. I think that rewarding those who choose to purchase large amounts of plat wouldn't be much different from the rewards offered through the referral program, so I'd expect the reward to be something like a small, unimpressive cosmetic or mod bonus that is simply 'different.' That's just I expect would be implemented if DE did indeed choose to reward those who buy large amounts of plat. 

 

Imo that risk constitutes us keeping our exclusive items, not keeping the rest of the community from being rewarded for their continued support. I'd imagine by now non-Founder contribution would have surpassed Founder contribution. You're simply tryin' to compromise and I can respect that.

[-FV-Wsocks]

They need to inform those who are not founders about those founder-only cosmetics in order to stop people asking "what's that fancy cosmetic, do I have any chance to have that?"

and that's what the patch notes does

I agree. My initial suggestion of completely omitting items from the patch notes has been met with resistance because people are confident that leaving out these items would open the door for DE to abuse the system somehow to give items to those who don't deserve them for bribes or something else. I don't believe that DE would ever do something like this but there are enough suspicious people who think that they might, that the idea of creating a spoiler section of the patch notes dedicated to Founders is winning out for those of use still currently discussing the issue. 

[-FV-Wsocks]

Imo that risk constitutes us keeping our exclusive items, not keeping the rest of the community from being rewarded for their continued support. I'd imagine by now non-Founder contribution would have surpassed Founder contribution. You're simply tryin' to compromise and I can respect that.

I appreciate the support and I thank you as well as all of the other Founders for their support in allowing this game to grow into what it is today. Compromise is the exact word that I would use because I want to come to a point that does not make the Founders feel as though they've been wronged and can help the non-Founder supporters continue to feel appreciated. 

[matrixEXO]

People are starting to show up and attack the OP about how he feels there should be some consideration for older players of the game.  Why do you care?  Most of you insulting him actually have the Founder's Pack and if you feel this thread is about stopping your gifts, I don't think that is what we are going for.  We are mostly asking for a dedication pack that could be possibly paid for for our years of service to show our dedication to the game (And if it came with free stuff everyonce and awhile, that would be cool too).  I doubt a dedication pack would hinder anything in the game and no matter what, the founders stuff would still be envied more.  It's just at least us old time players would have something to be proud of and to flaunt at the newer players.

It's not about stopping our gifts. Even if I weren't a Founder, the idea of DE hiding information from updates is the same as what they did way back when they changed certain values without informing the players. It was an outbreak of complaints then. This is a very bad practice and shouldn't be there. Obviously, since I'm a Founder, this will always have double meaning to people.

 

Regardless of whether Founder gets stuff or not, things needs to be informed and outlined. It's not like Founders are getting a new free weapon or a Founder-only Archwing. We only get cosmetics (Founder Sigil, Founder Emblem) and just a small boost to our Skana Prime or would you rather they don't add Skana Prime and it really just becomes ornament for Founders only? I personally can't really agree with that, even if I won't be using my Skana Prime any time soon.

 

 

I think our OP has a wrong idea about stuffs that we get and should even go back to check if he's actually being interpreted right. I personally interpret it as that he's complaining that Founders gets a lot of stuff (which is nonsense since we Founders didn't get anything after emblem in a bloody long time) and that he, in his fit of jealousy or his personal completionist mindset getting above him, wants to never see these things announced. Right? Nope, not at all. Wrong? I won't say that either. But I definitely do believe that information should never be withheld. Unless you want surprises like the rare/reinforced loot container (which is available to everyone to get, by RNG).

Edited November 16, 2014 by matrixEXO

[-FV-Wsocks]

It's not about stopping our gifts. Even if I weren't a Founder, the idea of DE hiding information from updates is the same as what they did way back when they changed certain values without informing the players. It was an outbreak of complaints then. This is a very bad practice and shouldn't be there. Obviously, since I'm a Founder, this will always have double meaning to people.

 

Regardless of whether Founder gets stuff or not, things needs to be informed and outlined. It's not like Founders are getting a new free weapon or a Founder-only Archwing. We only get cosmetics (Founder Sigil, Founder Emblem) and just a small boost to our Skana Prime or would you rather they don't add Skana Prime and it really just becomes ornament for Founders only? I personally can't really agree with that, even if I won't be using my Skana Prime any time soon.

 

 

I think our OP has a wrong idea about stuffs that we get and should even go back to check if he's actually being interpreted right. I personally interpret it as that he's complaining that Founders gets a lot of stuff (which is nonsense since we Founders didn't get anything after emblem in a bloody long time) and that he, in his fit of jealousy or his personal completionist mindset getting above him, wants to never see these things announced. Right? Nope, not at all. Wrong? I won't say that either. But I definitely do believe that information should never be withheld. Unless you want surprises like the rare/reinforced loot container (which is available to everyone to get, by RNG).

I was following your argument and appreciating your honest opinion until you, like so many others, decided to trivialize the matter by both not fully understanding what I'm asking for and by claiming that jealousy is the only possible motive I could have. Really? Complaining? I'm making a suggestion about something that I think might actually be a valid concern for some people. It has been said more than once, more than twice, more than five times in this thread already that because there are so many people suspicious of DE's character, a Founder dedicated spoiler section so that nothing would be left out of the patch notes. I nowhere said that I was upset that Founders were receiving frequent or constant  thanks through items. I've only ever used the word continued. As the support shown is actually continuing long after the initial purchase of the pack was made, this is an apt description. I also said that I thought it was appropriate that the Bright Purity mod be added to the Skana Prime and even went so far as to suggest that improving Founders weapons to the point that they're actually on par with non-exclusive items might not be a bad idea. I'd really appreciate if everyone who had an opposing viewpoint to my suggestion didn't sling around the word 'jealousy' like that is the only reasonable explanation for why I would take the time out of my day to write all of this. If people would stop questioning my motives and my moral character and instead go through the thread as it is so far to see my responses that have covered all of the thus far debated topics, maybe there wouldn't be so many accusations of my feelings in inadequacy or needing to be a completionist being thrown around. I'm only mastery rank 11 so being a completionist at MR18 isn't really something I'm very concerned about at the moment. There are many people who make the argument that there should be ways of reaching MR18 without the Founders items but this post is not making that argument. I suggest that if you'd like to use that as a defense, you go find one of the people actually making an argument that would warrant such.  

[Tyreuzs]

A message to our Founders:

Even we as players appreciate that you supported the game in it's earliest stages to allow it to become the thing we all know and love today, but we ask that you consider the fact that we were are not able to support the game in the way that you did because we did not discover it early enough. We all aspire to the level of recognition that your support has achieved in the eyes of the game developers, but we want you to know that we support and love this game as much as yourselves, and that we should not be held at fault for not contributing when you did. We are all of us just Tenno but certain founders that I've encountered hold in their hearts that they are in some way better than the rest of us for having supported the game earliest.

Thats just all that had to be said...

[MisterUltimate]

I'd like to remind yet another person that...

And once again you post a reply that has nothing to do with the post you quoted. Reminding me of things I never referenced doesn't move the discussion along. Also, repeating, "I want this. I think this is a good idea." ad nauseum is not discussion, so at this point there is no purpose for this thread.

I really attempted to discuss your idea rationally, but as I said, if you refuse to take your idea seriously enough to answer even one question about it, you can't expect anyone else to.

Edited November 20, 2014 by MisterUltimate

[akira_him]

snip

if you are not jealous, why it bothers you to start this thread

we call the feeling out being left out "jealousy" (or maybe more accurately, "envy", but they are more or less synonyms in English)

and changing the patch note for founders to spoiler is unnecessary, people will still get into rage on things giving to founders

[-FV-Wsocks]

if you are not jealous, why it bothers you to start this thread

we call the feeling out being left out "jealousy" (or maybe more accurately, "envy", but they are more or less synonyms in English)

and changing the patch note for founders to spoiler is unnecessary, people will still get into rage on things giving to founders

I can't control the people who can't ever be pleased. I can, however, propose small changes that could ultimately have a large effect on people's feelings of being appreciated through their continued support. Are you really telling me that there is no other motivation besides jealousy or envy for any topic? If I want to create a topic about what I'd like to see in the new hubs or a topic about suggestions for a build I'm working on, it could only possibly be out of envy? Why, if those topics can be posted with some reasonable motivation, can this one not? I have a concern and I'm airing it. I feel that others may share my concern. Or is concern never an acceptable motive if a post contains the word 'Founder' in the title?

[-FV-Wsocks]

ame="wearing_socks" post="3876593" timestamp="1416149667"]I'd like to remind yet another person that...

And once again you post a reply that has nothing to do with the post you quoted. Reminding me of things I never referenced doesn't move the discussion along. Also, repeating, "I want this. I think this is a good idea." ad nauseum is not discussion, so at this point there is no purpose for this thread.

I really tried attempted to discuss your idea rationally, but as I said, if you refuse to take your idea seriously enough to answer even one question about it, you can't expect anyone else to.

Every response that I've made to you has been received poorly and it seems that you seem to think that every response you've sent has been misunderstood by me. I don't really know what to say other than to state my ultimate goal and apologize for not being able to help you.

[akira_him]

I can't control the people who can't ever be pleased. I can, however, propose small changes that could ultimately have a large effect on people's feelings of being appreciated through their continued support. Are you really telling me that there is no other motivation besides jealousy or envy for any topic? If I want to create a topic about what I'd like to see in the new hubs or a topic about suggestions for a build I'm working on, it could only possibly be out of envy? Why, if those topics can be posted with some reasonable motivation, can this one not? I have a concern and I'm airing it. I feel that others may share my concern. Or is concern never an acceptable motive if a post contains the word 'Founder' in the title?

that's the point, it's definitely not just about envy

 

you said "Please allow the Founders access to new items in such a way as to not make the rest of us feel that our contributions are not appreciated. The request is to omit the addition of said items from public patch notes."

It is not reasonable enough. It is what the note patches supposed to tell everyone what have been added (to prevent rage of "who knows what they give to founders secretly") and you agreed it. And this makes the whole thread pointless.

 

Disclaimer: I brought Prime Access too, so if they are going to give out PA sigils, I am fine with it (and they should), but removing founders-related issues from patch notes, NO

Edited November 16, 2014 by akira_him