Continued Exclusive Gifts To Founders Makes Us Feel A Bit Left Out

[-FV-Wsocks]

that's the point, it's definitely not just about envy

 

you said "Please allow the Founders access to new items in such a way as to not make the rest of us feel that our contributions are not appreciated. The request is to omit the addition of said items from public patch notes."

It is not reasonable enough. It is what the note patches supposed to tell everyone what have been added (to prevent rage of "who knows what they give to founders secretly") and you agreed it. And this makes the whole thread pointless.

 

Disclaimer: I brought Prime Access too, so if they are going to give out PA sigils, I am fine with it, but removing founders-related issues from patch notes, NO

So you understand that I realize completely removing these things cause trouble, yet in your disclaimer you use 'NO' as your big argument when you've literally just suggested that this is an issue that we agree on? It has been suggested many times that a spoiler section is a better means of approach. 

[akira_him]

So you understand that I realize completely removing these things cause trouble, yet in your disclaimer you use 'NO' as your big argument when you've literally just suggested that this is an issue that we agree on? It has been suggested many times that a spoiler section is a better means of approach. 

I meant "Removing nor changing those patch notes into spoiler would relieve your pain", the change is totally unnessary

I just missed the later-er part of my last statement there

 

(and it is 0230 in my time zone and I am quite sleepy now) 

Edited November 16, 2014 by akira_him

[-FV-Wsocks]

I meant "Removing nor changing those patch notes into spoiler would relieve your pain", the change is totally unnessary

I just missed the later-er part of my last statement there

 

(and it is 0230 in my time zone and I am quite sleepy now) 

Since you won't be replying for a while, I won't leave you with any questions to answer but will simply say that I appreciate your contribution to the topic. I believe that changing the patch notes might help and you do not. 

[vaugahn]

Changing the patch notes will do nothing.

 

First off, how many patch notes have founders stuff in them? Off the top of my head, I can count maybe two in recent memory. 

 

Second, what would even be the point? How does the occasional inclusion of something for founders at all devalue your contribution? I fail to see it. 

[-FV-Wsocks]

Changing the patch notes will do nothing.

 

First off, how many patch notes have founders stuff in them? Off the top of my head, I can count maybe two in recent memory. 

 

Second, what would even be the point? How does the occasional inclusion of something for founders at all devalue your contribution? I fail to see it. 

I'm not going to continue to re write lines directly out of the original post. If your question is to how or why the patch notes could be removed or edited, I suggest that you re read the post. 

[(PSN)timbob90210]

On one hand there are the founders, people who originally supported the game because they wanted to see the game improve or because they liked the incentives in the founders pack. One the other hand there are the non-founders, people who couldn't, didn't want to or didn't know of the game to support it.

 

I believe this post is only partially about the problems stated. From the pages I've it seems to get less and less clear, but the main issue seem to the be OP feels others are not being treated equally and would not like to be...reminded? I can understand understand where the thought of inequality comes from when you have non-founders who have spent hundreds of dollars into the game with the only difference being the time when they spent the money. But I don't think the hiding of the founders exclusive gifts will do anything but make DE look shady.

 

The moderator seems very intent on keeping this topic about the future founder items but I think it's just the old founder pack discussion in disguise, as not to be immediately disregarded and locked.

 

But I noticed there are founders who are saying that the items are just cosmetic and don't matter, even going as far to belittle the things they receive. What I find interesting is if the idea of bringing up the founders pack back for the same price was brought up, some of those same people dismissing their rewards would be up in arms against it.

 

 

To me the founder sigils makes sense.

Will taking them out of the patch notes help? Not much, if at all.

Should they keep getting extensions on their founder pack stuff? Sure.

Is it fair to the people who constantly support the game by buying prime access? Not really, but they aren't exactly the same thing.

The founder pack is a bit more than just prime access, they were buying special standing with DE, not just a product.

 

This is all my own opinion; opinion, in case you missed it the first time.

[-FV-Wsocks]

On one hand there are the founders, people who originally supported the game because they wanted to see the game improve or because they liked the incentives in the founders pack. One the other hand there are the non-founders, people who couldn't, didn't want to or didn't know of the game to support it.

 

I believe this post is only partially about the problems stated. From the pages I've it seems to get less and less clear, but the main issue seem to the be OP feels others are not being treated equally and would not like to be...reminded? I can understand understand where the thought of inequality comes from when you have non-founders who have spent hundreds of dollars into the game with the only difference being the time when they spent the money. But I don't think the hiding of the founders exclusive gifts will do anything but make DE look shady.

 

The moderator seems very intent on keeping this topic about the future founder items but I think it's just the old founder pack discussion in disguise, as not to be immediately disregarded and locked.

 

But I noticed there are founders who are saying that the items are just cosmetic and don't matter, even going as far to belittle the things they receive. What I find interesting is if the idea of bringing up the founders pack back for the same price was brought up, some of those same people dismissing their rewards would be up in arms against it.

 

 

To me the founder sigils makes sense.

Will taking them out of the patch notes help? Not much, if at all.

Should they keep getting extensions on their founder pack stuff? Sure.

Is it fair to the people who constantly support the game by buying prime access? Not really, but they aren't exactly the same thing.

The founder pack is a bit more than just prime access, they were buying special standing with DE, not just a product.

 

This is all my own opinion; opinion, in case you missed it the first time.

I'm afraid that you're trying to find a deeper meaning where there is none. I can assure you that the decision to keep this discussion about the future was not a decision made by the moderators. I have said it many times in many replies to many comments and even many times in the original post itself but if it will clarify the issue, I will say it again: I do not want any of the items that the Founders receive nor do I feel that they should be made available at a later date. The discussion of any Founder related material is often locked which is why I've taken such great care to emphasize that no part of this discussion is in any way requesting the re release of the Founders pack, it's items, or any other benefits it may include. No disguises. If you decide to try and remove a mask that doesn't exist you'll be left with quite a bloody mess. 

[traybong111]

People have informed of the risk that the Founders made by choosing to support a game that they were not sure would succeed but unfortunately I was told in the same breath that because of this, no amount of support however large could possibly hope to compare to what the Founders did. I think that rewarding those who choose to purchase large amounts of plat wouldn't be much different from the rewards offered through the referral program, so I'd expect the reward to be something like a small, unimpressive cosmetic or mod bonus that is simply 'different.' That's just I expect would be implemented if DE did indeed choose to reward those who buy large amounts of plat.

In a way, yes, Founders' contribution will always be incomparable. To borrow a quote from Youtube video, a dollar today is always worth more than a dollar tomorrow and even more than a dollar next week. When talking about money and its value, it's not just the amount but also timing that matters. This is why my October salary comes in during the first week of November but most of my important October bill cycles end before October. 200 bucks from Founders back then will always be worth more than 200 bucks on Prime Access or plat after them--this is a simple economic blip happening due to how money works and how we are all mortals bound by time, not because DE wants to devalue or belittle your dedication.

As for your suggestion on referral program, while I'm not against it I do not find the idea of further creating different "classes" of players for DE to discriminate, i.e. Founders, heavy-paying players, and other non-Founders, too savory. There are plenty of non-paying veterans who provide constructive feedback on this beta game, many veterans who try to alleviate the difficulties newbies face so they'll stick around. I'm not trying to drag you down a slippery slope, I just don't expect such a program will improve what you see as discrimination.

And so what if DE does favor Founders for their earlier and critical support? I know I wouldn't blame either of them or demand some action from DE as long as I get what I was promised, i.e. a more or less functioning game featuring cool weapons and my dear waifu Ember.

There will always be someone more special than you, someone who gains more recognition and spotlight (rightfully or not) than you and that's OK. Don't let it damper your enjoyment.

[(PSN)timbob90210]

I'm afraid that you're trying to find a deeper meaning where there is none. I can assure you that the decision to keep this discussion about the future was not a decision made by the moderators. I have said it many times in many replies to many comments and even many times in the original post itself but if it will clarify the issue, I will say it again: I do not want any of the items that the Founders receive nor do I feel that they should be made available at a later date. The discussion of any Founder related material is often locked which is why I've taken such great care to emphasize that no part of this discussion is in any way requesting the re release of the Founders pack, it's items, or any other benefits it may include. No disguises. If you decide to try and remove a mask that doesn't exist you'll be left with quite a bloody mess. 

 

Well if it is as superficial as you say it is, it doesn't seem like a very strong argument.

To me it comes off as:

"I see something I have an issue with, I don't want to change but I don't want to see it."

 

But for someone who strolls the forums, there's a good chance you'll find out anyway.

Edited November 16, 2014 by (PS4)timbob90210

[-FV-Wsocks]

In a way, yes, Founders' contribution will always be incomparable. To borrow a quote from Youtube video, a dollar today is always worth more than a dollar tomorrow and even more than a dollar next week. When talking about money and its value, it's not just the amount but also timing that matters. This is why my October salary comes in during the first week of November but most of my important October bill cycles end before October. 200 bucks from Founders back then will always be worth more than 200 bucks on Prime Access or plat after them--this is a simple economic blip happening due to how money works and how we are all mortals bound by time, not because DE wants to devalue or belittle your dedication.

As for your suggestion on referral program, while I'm not against it I do not find the idea of further creating different "classes" of players for DE to discriminate, i.e. Founders, heavy-paying players, and other non-Founders, too savory. There are plenty of non-paying veterans who provide constructive feedback on this beta game, many veterans who try to alleviate the difficulties newbies face so they'll stick around. I'm not trying to drag you down a slippery slope, I just don't expect such a program will improve what you see as discrimination.

And so what if DE does favor Founders for their earlier and critical support? I know I wouldn't blame either of them or demand some action from DE as long as I get what I was promised, i.e. a more or less functioning game featuring cool weapons and my dear waifu Ember.

There will always be someone more special than you, someone who gains more recognition and spotlight (rightfully or not) than you and that's OK. Don't let it damper your enjoyment.

 

It was not I who introduced the idea of rewarding players who purchased large amounts of platinum, I simply commented on it. It is not my goal to have that implemented nor is that my argument for my proposed changes. As for who's support means more to DE, even if DE values the support of the Founders more than the support of non-Founders who support, the argument that I make is that I'm sure that they wouldn't want to unintentionally make someone feel as though their support isn't worth as much as someone elses, even when it might be. If the consequence that is some supporters feeling underappreciated, De would probably like to ensure that they take whatever action they see reasonable to make everyone happy enough to keep supporting. 

[-FV-Wsocks]

Well if it is as superficial as you say it is, it doesn't seem like a very strong argument.

To me it comes off as:

"I see something I have an issue with, I don't want to change but I don't want to see it."

 

But for someone who strolls the forums, there's a good chance you'll find out anyway.

I'd probably suggest that it's something more like, "I've noticed what appears to be an unintended consequence of this action, perhaps if this action was altered in some way, everyone could come out of the situation better than before." 

The strength of my argument is not one bolstered by facts or research because my suggestion is not one that I believe requires such. It is supported by my honest opinion as objectively as I can make it. The choice as to whether any action is taken or whether my concerns are even valid is one that DE themselves will or won't make. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

LOL, we get one sigil related to beeing a founder. (We already had a badge...)

 

And now there are people who can't grant others one tiny thing.

 

PS4 players get their own sigil. Crazy stuff huh? xD

Edited November 16, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Wyldbill]

Please do not attempt to place words in my mouth. I have very clearly said many times that I do not want anything extra. I appreciate the support you're showing the thread by commenting but If you would like to suggest that both you and I are asking for the same thing, that's simply not the case. I disagree that DE should offer exclusive content solely based on time played unless it's part of a system that has been publicly discussed and decided on with the help of the community. While it seems we differ on ideas to solve our concerns, it seems that we agree that at times we can feel underappreciated. If you feel strongly enough about what you think is a solution to this problem, It would probably be seen more easily in a new thread, but please do not confuse my message any further by suggesting that I want something for veteran players simply because they are veterans. There are already too many people on this thread who seem to be missing the point and who are angry at the small change that I am suggesting, please don't give them the idea that I want a larger change. 

 

I'm sorry if I have offended you, it was an honest mistake as by the time I was posting what was quoted, it was around 3AM.  I know this is still inexcusable when it comes to trying to paraphrase, but I hope just because I was in error on this you will keep vocalizing your side on things.  You do have a thought worth being brought to attention and even though others may feel it is unsolicited, keep doing what you are doing.

 

EDIT: I do wonder though, returning to the original post stating some discretion on the patch notes would be appreciated, how would a spoiler tag be offensive to anyone involved?  The update is still posted, all the information is still there, and the only thing that DE would have to do would be to add the code lines

and [./spoiler] to the patch notes.  Even if it seems like it is an unnecessary concession, if it helped alleviate the community when it came to conflicts between founders and non-founders, it would be worth it.  We get a lot of comments saying it would put DE out of the way, but it really isnt that much to ask for.

 

Also, someone asked be if I felt the founders still deserve their Skana Prime and such, but I cannot find the post back to quote.  The answer is yes, you founders do deserve the founder rewards you have recieved so far.  The Dedication pack I was suggesting would recieve similar but less flashy emblems and sigils, Founders would recieve the Dedication pack for free, and it would be exclusive to the players that have hundred(s) of hours in the game.  Whenever Founder's recieved the smaller aesthetics, such as sigils and emblems, the Dedicated would receive a variant at the same time.  DE could also put Dedicated additions in with Founder Additions at the same time on the patch notes and it would help bridge the gap between founders and non-founders. 

 

And before you say such a pack would put DE out of their way, they just added a new companion type with it's own AI and a new objective that follows a totally different game mechanic, technically for free.  A paid aesthetic pack that basically added a new class of player to the game would take less time then either of the above updates and help with the player community.

 

I am probably going to take my Dedication pack to a new thread as I feel I may be overstepping here a bit.  Even though the topic is Continued Exlusive Gifts To Founders Make Us Feel Left Out, the original post just calls for discretion and not an alternative solution.  Feel free to go over to a thread, probably labled "Dedication Pack for Veteran Players", and give me your fifty cents on it.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Wyldbill

[-FV-Wsocks]

LOL, we get one sigil related to beeing a founder. (We already had a badge...)

 

And now there are people who can't grant others one tiny thing.

 

PS4 players get their own sigil. Crazy stuff huh? xD

I do not want Founders to stop receiving exclusive items. I never said I did and I've specifically said many times that I'm not against it. 

[SIDESTRE4M]

I do not want Founders to stop receiving exclusive items. I never said I did and I've specifically said many times that I'm not against it. 

 

However, I saw that Skana mod as an opportunity to make Skana Prime worth it. I didn't expect people would have a gripe with that, because even with that mod, Dakra Prime would be a better choice and would have one slot more.

 

True, if someone choses to use Skana for style, it would be inferior to a founder with a prime variant. However I can't see why this is a big thing.

Given how rarely I see a Skana Prime. I don't think that this will impact the game significantly.

 

On the other hand: If it's true, that the mod doesn't work on Skana Prime, a mere Skana can outperform the prime... that's not particulary fair either.

[AsuraKyu]

However, I saw that Skana mod as an opportunity to make Skana Prime worth it. I didn't expect people would have a gripe with that, because even with that mod, Dakra Prime would be a better choice and would have one slot more.

 

True, if someone choses to use Skana for style, it would be inferior to a founder with a prime variant. However I can't see why this is a big thing.

Given how rarely I see a Skana Prime. I don't think that this will impact the game significantly.

 

On the other hand: If it's true, that the mod doesn't work on Skana Prime, a mere Skana can outperform the prime... that's not particulary fair either.

When DE starts making special exceptions for founders and their items in the game is when problems occur. Prime Augments don't work on said items non-primed variant and vice versa

[PookieNumnums]

these posts should he locked and or removed as soon as they pop up

 

if de wants to granfather players in from founders to new aspects of the game to show appreciation let them. 

 

these whining posta serve as nothing but senseless complaint threads that arent going to get anything constructive done 

 

its between us and de 

 

nuff sedna

[AsuraKyu]

these posts should he locked and or removed as soon as they pop up

 

if de wants to granfather players in from founders to new aspects of the game to show appreciation let them. 

 

these whining posta serve as nothing but senseless complaint threads that arent going to get anything constructive done 

 

its between us and de 

 

nuff sedna

"its between us and de" Wasn't that what the OP was trying to avoid? Anyone seeming as though they're support was being made to feel less. Yet in the statement alone, you, turn it into us vs them. Effectively saying  you're not one of us so don't worry about it and stop complaining is not constructive either I might add

[Noxraconis]

Founder meaning =/= Prime Access meaning. I try not to participate in this thread but after I saw how selfishness you have here. WE "Founder" don't paid for "Exclusive Item". WE paid to help DE in the meaning "Found". 

[Liminal]

I'd probably suggest that it's something more like, "I've noticed what appears to be an unintended consequence of this action, perhaps if this action was altered in some way, everyone could come out of the situation better than before."

But that "unintended consequence" is a personal feeling, so it's not enough to warrant a change.

[Onisa]

My literal only complaint over this past sigil thing was they should have released the founders ones at the same time as the mastery ones.

A decent percentage probably only complained because they though there weren't going to get something too.

 

Founder meaning =/= Prime Access meaning. I try not to participate in this thread but after I saw how selfishness you have here. WE "Founder" don't paid for "Exclusive Item". WE paid to help DE in the meaning "Found". 

Except plenty of other Founders claim they did just that. Or are you one of the few who wouldn't mind seeing Excalibur, Lato, and Skana Prime released for the masses?

[SIDESTRE4M]

Every game with founder items don't offer them later. It's a gift for helping founding the game.

Lato Prime and Skana Prime aren't particulary strong. The latter wouldn't even be with that augment mod. So no founder has any advantage.

I could as well compare Skana and Skana Prime now and Skana would still be inferior.

Given the fact that the mod doens't work with Skana Prime yet is rather a punch in the face of every founder.

 

All people lived with the existence of Skana Prime until now.

What's with the Vandal Versions of Lato and Braton?

Why not bring them back again?

 

That's how exclusivity works. Everyone has timegated access to special items to lure them to invest money into something beeing remotely far away from being finished or maybe even worth it yet.

 

We had our badge when the others had nothing and we now we have our sigil when others have nothing. We founders are founders.

Those who bought prime access have special items too that aren't coming back. So they are prime access'ers'.

(Nothing isn't even nothing. There are other badges and and there are now other sigils.)

 

So if we leave those sigils aside and see what we got with the new update that is of real relevance: We founders have nothing while normal skana has the mod, finally beeing superior to Skana Prime, rendering it even more useless.

 

So what again was the problem?

Edited November 16, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Janzer]

This post is in no way asking for Founder exclusive items to be re released or asking that Founders stop receiving exclusive items.

Please keep this in mind as you read.

 

The feeling of being left out comes from the few items that are so publicly distributed to Founders and not the rest of us. This can give a fellow the slightest bit of longing for that which he will never have.

 

With the introduction of U15 and the syndicate system, Founders and non-Founders alike were excited by all of the new mods and sigils that we were going to be given the opportunity to unlock. However, the non-Founders among us were told that some of these new things were to be forever beyond our grasp. I am speaking of course about the Founder Sigil and the adaptation of the Bright Purity mod to include the Skana Prime, a Founder exclusive weapon.

 

TL;DR

Please allow the Founders access to new items in such a way as to not make the rest of us feel that our contributions are not appreciated. The request is to omit the addition of said items from public patch notes. 

 

A message to our Founders:

Even we as players appreciate that you supported the game in it's earliest stages to allow it to become the thing we all know and love today, but we ask that you consider the fact that we were are not able to support the game in the way that you did because we did not discover it early enough. We all aspire to the level of recognition that your support has achieved in the eyes of the game developers, but we want you to know that we support and love this game as much as yourselves, and that we should not be held at fault for not contributing when you did. We are all of us just Tenno but certain founders that I've encountered hold in their hearts that they are in some way better than the rest of us for having supported the game earliest.

 

You're throwing around the term Founder way too liberally. I'm a Hunter level Founder. I did not get the Skana Prime or Lato Prime, I only got Excal Prime. So, first off, you're wrong on a few levels by thinking that all Founders have the same level of items they received based on what we bought. We didn't.

 

I too, will not have certain items that other Founder Levels bought in to. Should I complain about it and say that it's no fair because I just didn't have the money at the time? I don't think so. I bought the level that I was able to, because the opportunity was there, and the money was there.

 

Do you think that I didn't wish I had the ability to buy in to a higher tier Founder's pack? I did, but at the time monetarily it wasn't responsible for me to pay what was being asked. I do not regret my current level at all, because, you just get over things. That's life.

 

As far as your TL;DR comment, I think you're clearly feeling jealous, and expressing it, but in reality you just need to deal with....reality. This kind of stuff happens all the time. I didn't get certain items that I will never be able to get again. It is what it is.

 

As far as your message to Founders, I have utterly no idea how you come to the conclusion that you are being "held at fault" for anything. If you've encountered some braggarts that are Founders, guess what, they're probably like that with whatever they do in life. You can find a jerk or two among any crowd usually.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

I too, will not have certain items that other Founder Levels bought in to. Should I complain about it and say that it's no fair because I just didn't have the money at the time? I don't think so. I bought the level that I was able to, because the opportunity was there, and the money was there.

This is not what the OP is talking about at all.

[Sylaenius]

This is not what the OP is talking about at all.

 

Yeah he's talking about how players feel their contributions are undervalued in comparison to Founder's. 

 

Now, I assert that personally, I think that's crap, considering the basis of this idea stems both from an emotional feeling of disappointment and comes from the recent release of Founder Sigils, as well as an Augment released to include use on the Skana Prime. The original poster asserts that is not why he says he feels undervalued by Digital Extremes, yet, logically and objectively, there would be no other reason to feel so. Why?

 

 

Well first off, these Exclusive items are a tangible Thank You from DE for leveraging monetary support to them, in exchange for said Thank You gifts. I did something a select few others did at a time when it was needed.

 

If one were to head on over to; http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Prime_Access they would see all of the lovely limited time exclusives reminiscent of the structure of the Founders Program. A little tangible Thank You from the Devs you can wear, denoting your support.

 

Not to mention, again, the number of times we are thanked and complimented by the Development team both as individuals, individual groups of the community, and the community as a whole.

 

Now, if the argument had have been that he, or players in general feel undervalued for their support and he wishes to see such things as a Veteran Program the rewards nifty cosmetics and boosters for time played milestones, and maybe a rather subdued system to award a badge or sigil for exceptional monetary contribution or some such, I'd have gotten behind that.

 

But as it stands, he decided to go in the opposite direction, and instead of asking for recognition, decided to ask that my recognition be hidden. A rather scorched earth, "If I can't have it nobody can" approach that I find, silly, childish, and angering.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm done with this thread.