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Killerkarpfen

Open Space Archwing Missions, Extractions And You

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To make sure this is clear: we are not teleporting anyone just yet. I first want to see if the safe zone tweaks do what they are supposed to do for us. The extraction mechanic of leave wherever you are will also not go away. It will only be active however one you completed the mission objective.

Well, it would be great if you can be given a prompt to extract and you do so by holding down X for x seconds incase you want to abort mission this way.

 

It's a nice touch.

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What we are going to do first, which will happen with the next hotfix, is remove the tiles' individual safe zones and provide the big, open space base level with a big safe zone. Ideally this should stop early extractions. The next step is already in the pipeline and will see the extraction behaviour change to a teleporter. Similar to failsafe pit teleporters of normal levels that you all know of already. They will place you back in a middle position of the tile you're in right now.

 

I don´t think this is a good solution at all. While it works again on paper, because it gets rid of the problem that people are being force extracted, it creates a new problem which is simmilarly annoying: It completely breaks the immersion!! 

 

So what happens is you fly in space towards that cool grinneer ship and all of a sudden you are being teleported to somewhere in the middle of the tile. Why??? How?? Did Lotus "beam" you back???

The great thing about the open space missions is the illusion that you´re actually flying in space and could potentially go anywhere, you should do your best to not break that illusion.

 

I think i even have a pretty good suggestion to how this could be handled in an acceptable way:

 

What you called "Safe Zones" are basically little Hub Worlds, which is something that is quiet common in Videogames. Usually these Hubworlds are ristricted by the placement of geometry or invisible walls. Geometry like Mountains are obviously not possible and invisible Walls are a poor desgin choice in my opinion.

A very nice workaround i´ve seen though, was in the recent Batman games, when you aproached the limit of the safe zone through gliding towards it, this little animation would play, where Batman did an 180° and turn around towards the map, as if he wanted to say to you: "I´m not finished here", without actually saying it. 

This was a clever solution, as it was basically an invsible wall, but at the same time it didn´t broke the immersion! The Tenno could easily act in the same way, simply turning around on their own once you reached the end of the safe zone, hinting in their wordless manner: "i have a mission to get back to!"

 

i hope you consider.^^

 

greetings 

 

r0ckwolf

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This is great, but it fails to address the second problem in this issue:

Mods/drops flying out of the zone. Or just floating too far in general.

Do you plan to leave item drops touch based in archwing? Are you planning anything in regards to this?

I guess that they'll do the same thing as in normal missions : if your stuff falls, respawn in a location near the spawn,in the safe zone.

 

...In fact, that's a good question.

Edited by unknow99
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Something I'd like to see, much simpler and less game-altering, is that when you hit the end of the "safe zone", you're given a waypoint at the center of the game area.

 

I've flown "out" of the map several times, and if I *do* get the warning in time(only a 50/50 shot), I generally haven't the faintest idea which direction will count as "back to the map". Having an auto-generated waypoint to at least know where you're expected to be heading would be great.

 

Also, as for the AI, they should be aware of the "safe zone", and make an effort to stay within it--and it should probably act similar to a regular aircraft's "ceiling".

 

That is, regular aircraft have a distance above ground at which they can fly, and past that, they experience engine failure/stall out. Most famed air battles of the real world were based on what this distance was.(The red baron, for example, had over 200 feet  extra to work with).

 

If everyone acted likewise, and began stalling out when they approach the boundary, (along with, for us, the visible waypoint back in), it would help immensely. The enemies wouldn't be able to go beyond the boundary, and to keep their velocity in tact, should be choosing to avoid it. We would likewise be unable to go beyond it, but would be warned by the fact we're screeching to a halt suddenly.

 

This would be a far more logical solution than the teleporting back, and a far less abusable/dangerous one.

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Thanks for the heads up. It's very good to know what you guys/girls are working on and that you realized something needs further polish.

 

I guess just reusing the code for teleportation is easier than making a forced turn-around ala Starfox 64's arena levels, even tho that would be cooler.

 

I personally just hope that you don't forget about enemies getting stuck outside of the safe zone in the geometry. A dirty fix would be to just not give geometry outside of where the player can be any collision maps, so enemies just fly right through. I'm pretty sure noone would care in the slightest if they'd see that, it's a million times better than being unable to reach one lone enemy that is just outside of reach.

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Yeah... what about energy, resources and mod gathering?? It's kind of hard go to a energy sphere with such a tiny size. With mods is the same. 

Please DE, people have been talking about this. Please do it. I'm asking nicely.

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I guess that they'll do the same thing as in normal missions : if your stuff falls, respawn in a location near the spawn,in the safe zone.

 

...In fact, that's a good question.

it doesn't. I've seen mods roll down in corpus tilesets and I can never touch them.

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it doesn't. I've seen mods roll down in corpus tilesets and I can never touch them.

It doesn't?...

Another thing added to the fix list... :p

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How about beacons on the edge of the safe area's? Sort of like warning lights for passing ships to avoid the wrecks/asteroids. Would like to see the minimap get an overhaul, possibly mapped to a sphere...rather than the 2d one we currently have. That way we can tell relative altitudes of mobs and drops. Thanks for the update by the way. :-)

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https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/350372-erpo-earth-interception-aw-just-why/

 

My suggestion is to keep it current way, except of course fix AI but make the boundary visible when you get close to it in red or something, then when you pass it Ordis will say "emergency extraction commencing in 10 seconds" and thats the time window for you to leave the boundary if you so wish to

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Lost Interception in the end of the 3rd round because enemies were outside the playable area still (yesterday 11/21).  One by one our team went after them then got force extracted.  Quite frustrating.

 

 

P.S. I love the Rathbone though.

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Why force-extract in the first place instead of just stopping the player?    

Its a choice between minor annoyance and pretty huge mission-ending one.

 

Limit the players yes, but don't punish them by essentially kicking them from a mission.

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Guys please disable this stupid autokick for sometime. Do we really have to wait months for hotfix to be able to play interception without failing mission because of bugs? Simply disable it. Remove it from the game. When the player wanders to far and game crashes/whatever its his fault. Just make AW interception WORK. Remove those asteroids on the map's borders would work too. I do not think its that complicated.

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Nice to see the open space ordis kick under Staff's look. ^^

 

I'm not sure I've all understand but an extract occur often to me and don't seems to be due to this safe sphere, containting the whope area of the map.

 

More than one time I was kicked at less than 10 meter from a point.

 

I've notice than this kick accurs most often when I was defending a point in a side of the map and going quickly to the point at the exact opposed side.

Defending a bit or recapturing it, wait a bit, ordis warning, if I don't go back quickly to the first side of the map I was defending I'm exctract..

 

Haven't take care of how many host migration occurs before this bug happend, but I tend to think that this occurs during some chainned kick.

Sometime you see some of your mate leaving the area one by one, and after, you're turn, over baby sitting ordis come and stop the fun.

Edited by ZeGreymane

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Me and much more players i have contacted with raidcall, haven't completed the elytron archwing because the spawn on Uranus - Caelus to be huge for a mission we can't see where the mob spawn and minimap don't show the ambient in 3D.

 

Must the spawn can be decreased a little, this map now it's impossible, much mobs on one area with high dificulty moviment and minimap not show where mobs on the place correctly.

 

Hopeful this be read

 

Thanks

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Why force-extract in the first place instead of just stopping the player?    

Its a choice between minor annoyance and pretty huge mission-ending one.

 

Limit the players yes, but don't punish them by essentially kicking them from a mission.

I couldn't agree more. Just put an invisible barrier around the mission, and keep players (and more importantly, enemies and drops) within the barriers. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to be in a long interception mission and get kicked because I was chasing an enemy that went beyond the ill-defined "limits". If you want to keep immersive, force the AI to keep a buffer between itself and the barriers (you could essentially tell the AI that the area is slightly smaller than it really is) and have Ordis or Lotus warn the player that they are reaching the edge of their range, and have the engines slow down. Don't punish the player for ill-defined boundaries.

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For the areas that do have a hard border to keep you in (the areas with the gas layer), can you please squish it out a bit. What I mean is when you hit the barrier, you hit with a hard thunk, like hitting a literal wall. Can you do a softer, soundless, bounce back in?

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The biggest issue I found wasnt so much the extraction as it was being told that your leaving the mission area and bang extracted before you even get a chance to return to the "safe" zones. This left you without any ability to return to the mission for going places you didnt know were "out of bounds".

 

On top of that you then have missions compeleted but you cant extract anywhere without failure of the missions accept the specific point.  So you can be extracted but not extracted at the same time.

 

You have gone with a UI that 'immersion is king' , so the game needs to have far more immersion (arguably than the UI itself) and not break it otherwise you may as well not have the immersive UI over functional UI (its simply counter productive and makes the entire game look like a poor quality game).

 

Teleportation wont work for the immersion factor and dispite being an effective solution destroys the immersion in spades with Archwing.

Edited by Loswaith

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While this is better than nothing, I still see NO rationale for why a forced extraction exists. Give me a good reason for it. Why would you ever take control of abandoning a mission away from a player? It is absolutely mind boggling to me why this was ever implemented. If I want to abort a mission, I can do that from my menu.

Do you realize how frustrating it is to miss out on Elytron parts over and over again because I am chasing enemies that spawn outside of where I am allowed to go? I simply do not understand why you (DE) are talking about implementing a teleportation system, when that doesn't really solve the issue: if I am in that area, I'm there because I need to kill an enemy. Teleporting me away doesn't kill that enemy for me, and I am just going to have to go back there again. Or, like last night, getting extracted while just trying to get to the green waypoint on an extermination mission: I still need to go in that direction, whether you teleport me away or not.

Just remove the forced extraction code entirely, make the mission area volume bigger than you think it needs to be, and put a shimmering bubble at that point like in the trench run missions. That way, no enemies outside the area, and no players outside the area, because there is a physical barrier. And believe me, that barrier will be less immersion breaking than getting an automatic failure, or being afraid of one, just because I am trying to complete my mission.

And please hurry. I love, love the archwings, but they are getting to the point where they are just too frustrating to play, between this and the other bugs.

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