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[DE]Glen

Survival Spawning

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Awesome!

 

EDITED!

 

Well I'll stick to one important thing, and that is, how will the tweaks to survival missions spawning coincide with the recently introduced improved enemy accuracy? It's often a pain to play against enemies as is on solo survival, especially now hat they have (100 %?)  accuracy

 

Enemies are now able to target you from sizable distances and fire at you with near perfect accuracy unless you are using a mobile frame, and the biggest issue here is simply that Tenno Survivability is absolute rubbish in its current form, to a certain stage you can rely on vitality + redirection, then later Rage and Quick thinking.

 

 

However, after a certain point when the accuracy simply becomes unbearable, more of the game ends up being, "kill the enemy before they even see you" as even a single enemy has the capability to potentially drain your health / shields to 0 with their newfound accuracy rather quickly. This makes players have the tendency to run along with frames / weapons and builds packing massive DPS so that they can;

 

1. Initiate ability, stun / daze / stop everyone in the room

2. Fire While enemies cannot react

3. Repeat

 

While these increases may be minute, the aforementioned problem is that there is no engagement with the enemy that allows you to "tank" and take their shots, and I am afraid that this will only get worse with larger volumes of enemies spawning. Am I overthinking this?

 

Or is there something in the pipelines right now to allow us to actually take a single bullet without going down?

My thoughts, you speak them with such accuracy.

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Constant Flow Of Enemies Is What Endless Missions Need(Fa...

 

Did you guys take this thread into account? It has a great suggestion on how to make endless missions not boring while curbing the aoe death spam that is the smashing of the 4 key.

 

Viver was definitely that wake up call. It can be done if if it meant less xp per enemy, with large numbers that xp loss won't be felt.

 

Keep this thread in mind for future reference as well.

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Intersting, will need ot check survivals out. But as was mentioned enemy accuracy and dmg is insane. I was running Draco on Ceres and Balista was 1 Shotting my Banshee from nobody knows where. Good job though =)

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Awesome Glen,.. These problems have been around for far too long, but better late  than never,..

now when will you guys change it so ,we dont need Nekros on the team to even run a surv.map??

its a bit silly, that a whole game mode is solely based on one frame,...

 

Edit*

 

So the accuracy was boosted, when was this implemented?

coz i´ve been having some serious problems with being one-shotted by grineers the last week or so??

Edited by D3ST

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i have not tested it yet, so this crtitzism maybe premature, but from what i gathered of your post Glenn is that you slightly increased spawns and drops of lifesupport modules in low tier missions.

 

It still doesn´t sound like you have adressed the most obvious flaw with the gamemode though, it´s not about surviving....

 

Survival (in Wf) is much more about fighting an artifical timer, then actually surviving an onslaught of enemy attacks, i really have trouble in following the reasoning behind this. As it is Excavations are the much better version of survival at the moment, since there is no actuall failure. You fail, when you die! But more importantly the mission objective gets insanely hard, defending the excavators and staying alive at the same time is a much more challenging and fun task then gathering life support capsules. 

 

I wish the drops could occur at a much higher rate and at the same time enemy levels and spawn numbers should increase exponentially. So you would small forces in the beginning of the match but they keep on coming down harder on you every damn wave.

 

I hope you can shed some light on these design choices and maybe share your opinion on this matter.

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^Sounds like tougher excavators are needed.

 

Ya it is rather annoying that Venus excavators (level 6-11) have the same shields and health as excavators on Neptune (level 26-28).

 

500 Shields

2500 Health

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When can we expect that to be included in the game?

haha. we're not allowed to have Glens' bag of tricky tricks.

 

Why not see how fast enemies are being killed, and then dynamically adjust the rate?

hmm. that could be an interesting idea to try.

such a control would allow the Gamemode to always tweak itself to constantly be engaging, and more importantly, a challenge, but trying to avoid beating you up. but still providing that challenge to continue further.

 

Ya it is rather annoying that low Level Excavators and high Level Excavators have the same Survivability stats

i would agree. once you get to the later end of the Solar Map, Excavators become objects which can and probably will be destroyed in half a dozen shots, which takes Enemies less than a second to do. 

 

granted, you don't lose just because one is destroyed, but that means there is absolutely zero room for error, if Enemies aren't mapwiped perfectly, it might be destroyed.

Edited by taiiat

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Hopefully this addresses the problem with derelict survivals (which obviously you tested since you have a screenie of it) because no matter how many times my mates and I ran it, and no matter how efficient we were, getting past 25 was downright impossible (yes I know people have done it, but we never could). There just wasn't enough life support to do it. But it was usually a lack of support drops themselves, as well as really erratic Lotus drops that would sometimes creep up on 2 minutes before the next pod drop. However,  I'm looking forward to giving it another shot. I've always wanted to see the higher end of that particular survival. Thanks for all your hard work and if I run into any more problems I might be giving you a heads up

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May I ask what is the current AI spawn system?  

 

Really like Spooky Dodgers take on this.

 

A dynamic one that takes into account the amount of spawns near a player vs map size, their level to ensure a challenge, the squad make up (maybe different values for support/attack/aoe/mobility and levels)and relative distance from each other would be pretty damn cool. 

 

It may help to alleviate the lag of those who have low end systems by tailoring enemies to their current state...as in fewer but higher level enemies...ofc it could also make it a whole lot worse with extra real time data and client/host interactions.

 

Fascinated to find out how spawning and pathing currently is and how we can help as a community to make it better. Thanks to you and your teams of dedicated volunteers for all your hard work. Much appreciated!

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140b5483695386641c948708752a0663ef0e2f50

 

So much love for my favorite mission type, but now archwings and other missions need that tlc from you and your legendary team of testers.

 

Mo polish, mo bedda! b-_^

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This is a fantastic post! I would very much like to see more explanation as to the rationale and methodology behind changes to the game. I feel like many of the changes to Warframe since Melee 2.0 (Finally reaching epic proportions with ViverGate) have been half-thought out and haphazardly implemented. Perhaps a little more dialog would help assuage these fears.

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The Casual Carousel Survival Saturday starts in about half an hour (10AM EST). http://twitch.tv/DE_BadHorse & RaidCall 9585297

 

 

 

I've been messing around and recording stats etc for survival missions (particularly on solo) since the hotfix, with some interesting findings, would it be alright if around the end of next week I be allowed to PM you about whatI've been able to find and observe, Mr. Glen?

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Actually we're still having a hard time getting LS if we don't take a Nekros. Nothing has changed for us.

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Actually we're still having a hard time getting LS if we don't take a Nekros. Nothing has changed for us.

 

the rules haven't changed totally, you still need to keep the group close to each other. 

 

every group i've played with since the changes, that has actually managed to support each other, has easily run to 40+ minutes in void without the use of a nekros. consistently. 

 

solo play has also been vastly improved, i haven't even come close to running out of o2 on any of the syndicate survival alerts, xini / eris survival, or any of the dark sectors i've been running. (mostly pluto)

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Here's my personal take on the afformentioned changes:

While survival is easily the most dynamic gamemode currently in wf, it has lacked this attention for quite some time.

Basically you either bring a nekros, and you live solely off of ls drops, otherwise its a mix between drops and capsules.

After this patch, we see more drops but not enough to justify the negatives of not bringing nekros.

I think we find ourselves not running down to 2% as easily waiting for a capaule spawn now, when not running nekros.

Much appreciated and needed change, HOWEVER,...

many times the runs' flaw comes from horrid spawn mechanics, my team of 4 glued to each other, and yet we still find the dead spots around 4-5 mins, 8-10m, and around 16-20m where even a nekros offers no support when there are no bodies.

This can easily cripple and otherwise great team/start to the run.

Many times the down-time can last long enough between waves that even WITH a nekros, we are popping capsules during noted times.

The change has definitely helped, but maybe not enough to warrant leaving it be. Spawn mechanics, and greatly reducing the effects of RNG crippling a great team randomly is What this game mode deserves and needs.

As always thank you guys for the great updates! Looking forward to more :P

Edited by eternaL1
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Here's a screenshot of an upcoming hud addition.

 

Mnl7FDr.jpg

 

In public games it's easy for players to inadvertently waste some life support by activating more than one capsule at the same time. Some players like to coordinate by using chat, but this takes time and isn't always seen immediately.

 

To make capsule status more visible, all active and incoming capsules are now displayed below the life support bar.  Blue icons on the left are incoming, white in the middle are available, and flashing icons (can't tell in the screenshot) at the right are capsules currently being activated.

 

P.S: Watching the casual carousel stream with much interest :)

Edited by Whirrrrr
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Here's a screenshot of an upcoming hud addition.

 

In public games it's easy for players to inadvertently waste some life support by activating more than one capsule at the same time. Some players like to coordinate by using chat, but this takes time and isn't always seen immediately.

 

To make capsule status more visible, all active and incoming capsules are now displayed below the life support bar.  Blue icons on the left are incoming, white in the middle are available, and flashing icons (can't tell in the screenshot) at the right are capsules currently being activated.

Wow, this is great! Thank you!

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-snippy-

I would also like to suggest maybe an addition to allow Tenno to cancel a life support. incase two people active two different one at the same time.

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Here's a screenshot of an upcoming hud addition.

Mnl7FDr.jpg

In public games it's easy for players to inadvertently waste some life support by activating more than one capsule at the same time. Some players like to coordinate by using chat, but this takes time and isn't always seen immediately.

To make capsule status more visible, all active and incoming capsules are now displayed below the life support bar. Blue icons on the left are incoming, white in the middle are available, and flashing icons (can't tell in the screenshot) at the right are capsules currently being activated.

P.S: Watching the casual carousel stream with much interest :)

As long as you turn this off in the "higher tier difficulty" then we won't have a problem.

For example T4 Survival.

You may also consider the higher Tiers possibly having no icon(s) what-so-ever or limited icons.

Sedna Yemaja Grineer 14 - 19 3 3 Eris Hymeno Infestation 28 - 33 5 3 Eris Nimus Infestation 30 - 35 4 3 Ceres Nuovo Grineer 33 - 38 5 3 Ceres Egeria Grineer 35 - 40 5 3 Pluto Palus Corpus 33 - 38 5 3

Just as an example:

Have 1 icon in Tier 4

Have 2 icons in Tier 3

Have 3 icons in Tier 2

Have 4 icons in Tier 1

Edited by Kinjeto
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Great! One last thing from my initial feedback for survival thread that I think should be added:

 

"Additionally below 50% every 10% the life bar should flash in red (bringing attention to the players).

Below 10% every 1% it flashes, with it turning red upon depletion."
 
Now this can happen at other intervals decided by you guys but it should happen :)
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