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[DE]Glen

Survival Spawning

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@Kinjeto - Hmm, I can't see a single good reason you would want this off for higher difficulties?

 

Anyway, nice addition, I've always only activated under 40 and checked player position on the map before doing so.

... but this can only help.

Edited by Egg_Chen
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@Kinjeto - Hmm, I can't see a single good reason you would want this off for higher difficulties?

 

Anyway, nice addition, I've always only activated under 40 and checked player position on the map before doing so.

... but this can only help.

Because it's a side-grade in difficulty. You have to go out and find the oxygen. Ideally learn the oxygen spawn pattern. Then you can use the oxygen spawn pattern as another form of scaling side-grade in difficulty originally it was proposed that "getting to the oxygen canister is the difficulty."

What the icons on the HUD should be nudging the user towards is learning the oxygen spawn pattern. The only major thing in the engine that is controlled is basically. How monsters spawn around, what level monsters spawn around you and where the oxygen spawns. So these are the main difficulty factors minus the ever increase level of monsters.

So you have to work as a coordinated team.

The tiers in the game if you look at

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Survival

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Defense

- You will clearly observer a Tier number which is basically a difficulty in Tier. So you could also spawn maybe a few more Eximus units possibly or waves of specific Eximus unit.

However there are no tier numbers here, which would be nice:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Interception

 

Edited by Kinjeto

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Here's a screenshot of an upcoming hud addition.

 

 

In public games it's easy for players to inadvertently waste some life support by activating more than one capsule at the same time. Some players like to coordinate by using chat, but this takes time and isn't always seen immediately.

 

To make capsule status more visible, all active and incoming capsules are now displayed below the life support bar.  Blue icons on the left are incoming, white in the middle are available, and flashing icons (can't tell in the screenshot) at the right are capsules currently being activated.

 

P.S: Watching the casual carousel stream with much interest :)

 

That looks amazing.

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Because it's a side-grade in difficulty. You have to go out and find the oxygen. Ideally learn the oxygen spawn pattern. Then you can use the oxygen spawn pattern as another form of scaling side-grade in difficulty originally it was proposed that "getting to the oxygen canister is the difficulty."

What the icons on the HUD should be nudging the user towards is learning the oxygen spawn pattern. The only major thing in the engine that is controlled is basically. How monsters spawn around, what level monsters spawn around you and where the oxygen spawns. So these are the main difficulty factors minus the ever increase level of monsters.

So you have to work as a coordinated team.

The tiers in the game if you look at

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Survival

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Defense

- You will clearly observer a Tier number which is basically a difficulty in Tier. So you could also spawn maybe a few more Eximus units possibly or waves of specific Eximus unit.

However there are no tier numbers here, which would be nice:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Interception

 

Or maybe the new HUD could give a similar effect with less work and annoyance.

 

I'd much prefer the HUD update.

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Here's a screenshot of an upcoming hud addition.

 

- snip -

 

 

In public games it's easy for players to inadvertently waste some life support by activating more than one capsule at the same time. Some players like to coordinate by using chat, but this takes time and isn't always seen immediately.

 

To make capsule status more visible, all active and incoming capsules are now displayed below the life support bar.  Blue icons on the left are incoming, white in the middle are available, and flashing icons (can't tell in the screenshot) at the right are capsules currently being activated.

 

If 2 people try to activate different capsules simultaneously, is there a way one can cancel the procedure? As far as I know, I tried to roll/slide out of the activaition animation..but it won't cancel until activation is complete.

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Watching the casual carousel, interesting to see how some topics that span far more than survival are showing up.

Tell you what... You know

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140418192133/warframe/images/d/d2/GrineerShipyard.png - This tileset? Moving train. It's a single tile but the train moves to change the level dynamic and it's only found on Ceres.

There is another one:

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130608184546/warframe/images/6/63/2013-06-08_00007.jpg

-- This one grineer gallion arena tileset. The pod moves up and down to change the level topography dynamic. To some degree it means the player has to think a bit differently about how they cover exits.

You put the Tier number on it and it ramps up kind of to the player expectations of what is expected out of them. That's kind of the cool thing about procedural generation if you do it right. You let your environment do the talking. Your monsters are mooks and mechanics.

You see in the Eris tileset there is a vent that blows you down into a bottomless pit and that the pit strips you of any active affect so DE is already half way in the environmental effect. Then you can further expand out on this with survival in Hive Missions because every time you kill a hive it dynamically modulates the level to be different topography.

 

When we had Vor spawn in Tier 4. That was a really interesting change. When a player has to move about outside their comfort zone and adapt to the environment. Then we see players shine, also players have to make split second decisions.

 

Edited by Kinjeto

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Maybe you guys can include a sort of sound/visual effect similar to when windows get blown out on a ship and atmosphere starts venting that ramps up as life support gets close to running out, give us a bit more jarring a reminder that we need to pop life support?

Edited by Cradicias
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Here's a screenshot of an upcoming hud addition.

 

Mnl7FDr.jpg

 

In public games it's easy for players to inadvertently waste some life support by activating more than one capsule at the same time. Some players like to coordinate by using chat, but this takes time and isn't always seen immediately.

 

To make capsule status more visible, all active and incoming capsules are now displayed below the life support bar.  Blue icons on the left are incoming, white in the middle are available, and flashing icons (can't tell in the screenshot) at the right are capsules currently being activated.

 

P.S: Watching the casual carousel stream with much interest :)

While designing this HUD addition did you take into account those with color-blindness?  Just curious if this was taken into account on the first pass.  :)

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As long as you turn this off in the "higher tier difficulty" then we won't have a problem.

For example T4 Survival.

You may also consider the higher Tiers possibly having no icon(s) what-so-ever or limited icons.

 

Sedna Yemaja Grineer 14 - 19 3 3 Eris Hymeno Infestation 28 - 33 5 3 Eris Nimus Infestation 30 - 35 4 3 Ceres Nuovo Grineer 33 - 38 5 3 Ceres Egeria Grineer 35 - 40 5 3 Pluto Palus Corpus 33 - 38 5 3

 

 

I'd rather not see such shenanigans. Quality of life improvements like this don't affect difficulty, they just generate annoyance when removed.

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Because it's a side-grade in difficulty. You have to go out and find the oxygen. Ideally learn the oxygen spawn pattern. Then you can use the oxygen spawn pattern as another form of scaling side-grade in difficulty originally it was proposed that "getting to the oxygen canister is the difficulty."

I say we should go to the extreme; completely remove all information relating to oxygen. How much you have, how much you do not, etc. Make it so you have to go out and find the oxygen canisters and then spawn them in yourself! And you'll need to collect power cell things like in Excavation, but for each and every oxygen canister. o 3o

Edited by Sidathe
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While designing this HUD addition did you take into account those with color-blindness?  Just curious if this was taken into account on the first pass.  :)

It should work even in monochrome.  That said, if you're color blind and the new survival hud isn't clear enough, please let us know.

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Or maybe the new HUD could give a similar effect with less work and annoyance.

 

I'd much prefer the HUD update.

Better yet you could scale down the amount of icons visible to 1 or 2 in Survival in the higher tiers. That is a simple trick.

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I would like to see life support continue to be attainable after you run out. When you run out the timer should stop, but getting more from enemies or capsules should stop the health drain and resume the timer. Oxygen would continue to be a factor that makes the mission harder, but it wouldn't be a sudden mission end condition.

This would alleviate a lot of the life-support issues to some extent since it would be okay for it to be at zero for a few seconds.

 

 

While designing this HUD addition did you take into account those with color-blindness?  Just curious if this was taken into account on the first pass.  :)

 

I don't know of anyone who has trouble with blue vs white other than people who don't see color at all, at which point nothing can really help.

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I don't know of anyone who has trouble with blue vs white other than people who don't see color at all, at which point nothing can really help.

People with Tritanopia may have issues, which I have Tritanomaly in one of my eyes. Light blues blend into whites.

I don't have a major issue, my lazy eye has this problem, so my QOL is unaffected by it. Others would have some difficulty. However, Tritanopia is rare, so I don't see it becoming much of an issue.

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Great! One last thing from my initial feedback for survival thread that I think should be added:

 

"Additionally below 50% every 10% the life bar should flash in red (bringing attention to the players).

Below 10% every 1% it flashes, with it turning red upon depletion."
 
Now this can happen at other intervals decided by you guys but it should happen :)

 

This would be great in T4S when youa re fighting Vor, because I want to focus on fighting him and it is nice to know the status of life support without having to check all the time.

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I would like to see life support continue to be attainable after you run out. When you run out the timer should stop, but getting more from enemies or capsules should stop the health drain and resume the timer. Oxygen would continue to be a factor that makes the mission harder, but it wouldn't be a sudden mission end condition.

This would alleviate a lot of the life-support issues to some extent since it would be okay for it to be at zero for a few seconds.

 

 

 

I don't know of anyone who has trouble with blue vs white other than people who don't see color at all, at which point nothing can really help.

 

You know, that would be a pretty awesome addition.

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It should work even in monochrome.  That said, if you're color blind and the new survival hud isn't clear enough, please let us know.

 

I have to admit, it would be awesome if the colour difference was a little more pronounced. Its quite slight as it is. Its easy to forget that in warframe, theres often a huge amount of multicoloured explosions going off, so slight differences might get lost within that. Its a nice addition though!

Edited by H3dsh0t
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Because it's a side-grade in difficulty.

wat

 

 

you do realize the game tells you where the Oxygen things are at all times... already.

the Map already tells you where the warped in Life Support pods are.

 

this HUD addition does nothing other than tell you how many are incoming, how many are there, and if someone is currently using one.

the game already tells you where the Life Support pods are. always has. in the Survival Event it also told you where they were. it's been there forever.

 

this HUD addition doesn't do anything that you're suggesting it does.

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While yesterday we reached 60 mins using a Nekros, on T4S, I have to say, it was boring until 50mins. The number of enemies is underwhelming, we where just running as a group from one room to another killing batches of 4-5 enemies.

 

When will we have a survival that remotely resembles the word itself? Where we have to survive, but not from O2, and yes from the swarm of enemies coming at you.

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wat

 

 

you do realize the game tells you where the Oxygen things are at all times... already.

the Map already tells you where the warped in Life Support pods are.

 

this HUD addition does nothing other than tell you how many are incoming, how many are there, and if someone is currently using one.

the game already tells you where the Life Support pods are. always has. in the Survival Event it also told you where they were. it's been there forever.

 

this HUD addition doesn't do anything that you're suggesting it does.

Yeah but you've still got to go to the location and activate it and there are multiple pods around. Also as Glen explained it to me "the challenge is getting to the air canister" so having the extra knowledge of when the canister dropped and more importantly where on the minimap the canister dropped would make things 'easier' per-se.

Im also saying in the lower tiers show it on the map and show the timers on the canisters to the player, where it's activating then scale it back. So in the lower Tiers it shows which Oxygen canister is activating and where, and then the player(s) have to work out where, when they actually drop in. Where as on the lower tiers you'd see every canister.

Course it would show the yellow icon on the mini map once it's in. It's choice and consequence

I want to my team has to make decisions in T4. Really important decisions. Do I stay and cover this area? or should we run and get the oxygen? That is what Glen said on Raidcall how Survival was meant to be "That the challenge was getting to the air canister". Just at the moment it's like I'm always like "Oh 35%, Oh just use the oxygen."

it's not like "Hrm should I use the oxygen at 75 or 50% or a bit lower"

 

But other than that. Quality-Of-Life sure, Ok. I'm probably lousy at explaining the idea.

Edited by Kinjeto

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If 2 people try to activate different capsules simultaneously, is there a way one can CANCEL the procedure? As far as I know, I tried to roll/slide out of the activation animation..but it won't CANCEL until activation is complete.

This, we need the ability to cancel activation like probably typing again the activation button.

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Better yet you could scale down the amount of icons visible to 1 or 2 in Survival in the higher tiers. That is a simple trick.

But why?  Like, what's the purpose of removing info from the display?

 

 

Yeah but you've still got to go to the location and activate it and there are multiple pods around.

That wouldn't change with this HUD thing though?

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We found some bugs today which should be fixable quit easy. The main problem we should focus one next is places in the environment where we as tenno have to do something: wallrunning, jumping, press button, meele and so on and look how enemies behave around those.

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