DE_Adam Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Grineer these days have certainly stepped up their game. Deadly at close range and crack shots at a distance, Tenno all over the Solar System have been letting us know that the clone army really hasn’t been messing around ever since Update Archwing. All these increased deaths have made us wonder if the Grineer haven’t secretly perfected the art of no-scope headshots. There’s even talk of some Corpus crewmen hitting Tenno with pinpoint accuracy. At least, that’s what you’re telling us. Naturally, we decided to investigate and the results were pretty surprising. We sampled 20,000 random player accounts that have been active 20 days post and 20 days prior to the launch of Update Archwing, specifically looking for how many players have been killed by Grineer Lancers (Arid, Frontier, Corrupted) during that period of time. Simply put, the data told us this: On average Lancers were not only being killed more often, but certain types of Lancers (Frontier and Corrupted) were doing dramatically worse against Players over this 40 day period of time. Arid Lancers on the other hand, were suddenly doing much better! Being an Arid Lancer definitely became a Grineer’s best career move in the Solar System, but for us this is a sign that further data and digging must be done! Naturally there’s so much information to dive into here, and we’ve only just begun our investigation of enemy accuracy. Grineer Lancers only make up a small piece of the puzzle, as there are far more variables than one enemy type to take into consideration. We’ve also heard your complaints on Kubrows getting killed too quickly in close-range combat. Currently we are looking into ways of making movement more rewarding for evasive purposes to increase the usefulness of mobility and parkour on enemy accuracy. We’ll continue to update you all as we search for any potential problems (and solutions) regarding accuracy. Rest assured, when it comes to accuracy we’re doing everything we can to hit this problem right on the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implodingbanana Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 i have no problem with their accuracy being high but it gets annoying when there is no escape or chance to avoid it without getting into cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie_mastyr Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 man this is great news! i've been hoping for this day since... well day one :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifted Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Don't base your tweaks on simply analyzing data. Especially data about how many lancers were killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnus4 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 A) Corrupted Lancers use Deras, therefore no hitscan involved, shouldn't factor into the equation. B) Frontier Lancers are on Earth, a starting planet, of course they won't have as many kills as Arid Lancers who are in the 20 level range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void_Vis_Vires Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Do I smell movement 2.0 cooking? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Folkeye Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 "Does the rolling really help?" If one cannot use it to dodge the occasional bullet, then no. Pointless, outside the fact it shows you're in great shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) OMG, really? At this point just turn this game into a point/click adventure if people dont know how to evade and use their powers at the same time. The enemies are supposed to be hard when they get to harder areas. Edited November 21, 2014 by Mak_Gohae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othergrunty Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the info and for the team as a whole for looking into it. Sounds a bit like a weird way to test enemy accurancy, but i guess looking at the stats and going into missions and let them shoot you, isn't giving you enough data. Maybe i'm wrong, but it always felt like accurancy actualy increases a lot with enemy level, since i did notice that common lancers on anything below Saturn are horrible shots, but as soon as you encounter them at Ceres they can follow you around like crazy. So like armor scaling i thought the accurancy scales crazy aswell until they can suddently hit you even when just a pixel is exposed behind an object. Enemies in general seem to switch to smart guns past level 30. Moas with their uninterrupted 10+ shot burst are perhaps the most cheating "sons of a female dog" since they keep firing at you even when you are behind objects or cloaked, because they are programmed to finish their burst, no matter what. However i do admit that it could also simply come from them hitting harder, so you suddently pay more attention to their shots. Looking forward to what info you can give us after more testing. About dodge moves. Maybe you should give rolling a natural 50% damage reduction. Sure players will keep rolling around constantly but it would both be limited by stamina and look hillarious. Edited November 21, 2014 by Othergrunty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridon Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Ive been avoiding Grineer on the last weeks exactly cause of the accuracy gain, it just gets annoying and makes me bring my steam rolling equipment, instead of my have fun equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zareek Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direcyphre Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Sadly lancers will never have a great or consistent track record with kiling players, because they are lancers. Mind you, the higher levels scale pretty dramatically along with the fire rate of their guns. I'd say the more noticeable aspect is that all corpus know how to accurately lead their targets at any range. Doesn't matter if they aren't hitscan, they know exactly where to shoot no matter where you are going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krion112 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) My suggestions on this: Enemies should have a definitive, sort of lock on time before they open fire, at least when they're on the defensive. It seems like I can walk into a room, and the moment the door opens, I have people shooting at me with incredible accuracy. This is especially annoying with Ballistas and Seekers, who display no hint that I'm about to lose the majority of my shielding, usually leading to an immediate death. As well, there should be a drift on them correcting their aim. Corpus Elite Crewmen just lock on immediately, and no matter how fast I run, no matter how much I struggle, their beam is locked right on my 'frame. In comparison, when I use the flux rifle, it takes me a second to compensate for enemy movement and my beam kind of falls behind them until I compensate enough to actually hit them. I think this should be reflected in our enemies as well, as they are as human, if not more human, than us Tenno. Also, even while alert, enemies should lose you when you go to cover or hide behind a wall. I find it frustrating that I can't sneak up on enemies just because they're 'alert', you know, even if I know a burglar is in my house, it doesn't mean I know where he is, even if I saw him near the front door and then lost him. Enemies with high accuracy is alright, but right now they're reacting way too quickly and effectively, and not 'humanly'. Edited November 22, 2014 by Krion112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilianJoe Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Are you going one enemy type at a time? Because those darned Sekkers with their Krakens, and Troopers with their Sobeks are oneshotting Tennos left and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyokaChan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 It's the ballistas that are the core of complaints, not lancers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennoSimons Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The only noticeable difference I have noticed myself is in Archwing missions. Those guys never miss me, no matter how far. Even now, though I think it might have improved somewhat since the last update or two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadeinlight Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Check Ballistas before anything else. They're the ones that really seem to have picked up some skill, from what I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storchenbein Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Lancers are cute little kittens. Ballistas are the problem. No-scoping you with a 360° while not even looking at you and doing ridiculous damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobWasHere Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Tone down all grineer accuracy. Elite Lancers no-scoping you from any distance and at any speed (wallrun, slidejump, copter, volt speed). Seekers, shield lancers and ballistas do too much damage. Detron crewman have too high rate of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aktriaz Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 It's the ballistas that are the core of complaints, not lancers! Seekers would like to have a word with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volkovyi Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I am glad to hear this topic of accuracy being taken into consideration! I would like to recount some of my own observations, as a player for over a year. In short, there is indeed a negative effect between the effort a Tenno puts in into sweet ninja parkour evasion skills and how that is rewarded in combat, that is very little. Enemies seem to have too much of an "aimbot" effect, I can not count all the time Corpus have twisted their bodies 180 degrees breaking their model to run from me AND shoot me 100% at the same time. How come these lousy science crewmen can run away and shoot at the same time, but as an elite space ninja I have to slow to a shuffle when aiming down sights? Another account, as I often play a Nekros in Void Survival, no matter how much I keep moving there always seems to me bullets aimed for my head. I do slides, jumps, rolls, over and under Orokin obstacles, behind pillars and covers, never stopping for a breath and yet that Corrupted Heavy Gunner follows me regardless? How can enemies predict our movements so efficiently, but due to host lags, animation bugs, and confused AI, I as a Tenno can not seem to shoot that one Grineer Lancer who is teleporting in and out of cover? (rhetorical question) All in all, it is something almost all players have experienced, and I am optimistically looking forward to these "accuracy" studies and changes in the future. Good on you Sir Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfunker Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 i thought people were exaggerating at first... i go around a corner and in 2 seconds i got about: 3 or so slash procs & a ballista removed 75% of my shields and then i thought "hmm, corpus missions looks fun!" Btw... i always thought Grineer guns had to much power and the balance WAS the inaccuracy but oh well time to up my corpus kills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTaro Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 That's some awesome news! As a very dedicated melee Tenno, the aimbot-hax-no-scope-360 became a huge issue. Before the hotfix, I could avoid 80% to 90% of the incoming damage by simply moving around at super sonic speed, like a true ninja. But nowadays, no matter how fast you move, that bullet will land on you. In case you wonder how I estimated the 80% to 90% damage reduction: Before the hotfix, one Iron Skin could last a whole exterminate mission as long as I moved around . Nowadays, Iron Skin won't last 3 rooms most of the times. Not to mention, I even have Strength mods on now, to boost the Iron Skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 So does this mean you're investigating the effects of their accuracy increases on Turbulence? Been hearing that it's become useless since the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknow99 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The best thing to do imo is this : make the accuracy scale with enemies level.(but never 100% accuracy) There's no reason a newb has 100% chance to receive hellion's projectiles in the face, or high level enemies to behave like storm troopers(higher enemies won't just be bullet sponges & high level players won't find them not challenging)... 2nd suggestion : give ballista sniper lasers. Seriously! If you do both things : no more complaining about this topic guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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