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[DE]Drew

November 21St: Community Hot Topics!

Community Hot Topics  

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Stealth

Regarding stealth, in my opinion, hiding isn't the right way to go. How the AI reacts when noticing your presence is the core of any stealth game, and warframe is very lacking in that regard.

Right now, if a single enemy catches you in the corner of their eye, the other guy in the far corner of the room instantly knows you are there too. 

Even if I kill an enemy before the animation to lift their weapon finishes I have cut them down. No noise, no gun fire, but everyone still knows I'm there.

 

There needs to be stages in awareness.

Unaware: They just walk around on patrol, just like normal

Passive Suspicion: The enemy might hear a faint noise with no visual or a dark shadow in the distance.

In this stage they will keep their gun lowered and will investigate what the heard or saw

Active Suspicion: The enemy sees something that is a potential threat, or heard a gunshot in the distance with no idea of what caused it.

In this stage they will call out and alert all other enemies in the room. They do not lower from this alarm stage, and will actively be searching with guns raised and ready.

Discovery: If the enemy will raise the alarm for combat, but the time it takes from this depends on the level of suspicion.

Unaware they might freak out for a split second, as you would with a warframe appearing out of nowhere, before raising the alarm and shooting.

'Passive' discovery would take the time it does to yell, or aim their weapon and shoot at you

'Active' takes no time at all to start firing at you, as they already have their gun raised, alerting everyone in the room to your location

 

Fit timing to what you would for that situation. Just with this I feel it would greatly improve stealth instead of every enemy having a psychic link, eagle eyes, and instant reaction times.

 

 

Yes we do need that to make stealth viable

I heavily agree

This would work great with the hide mechanic

 

Do keep in mind though that stealth needs to have some benefit over run and gun, since it is much slower

I would do it sometimes just to entertain myself, but apart from that I would throw stealth back itno some corner, since it costs time and that would defeat the purpose of using it?

Except you make more stealth based mission types, which would justify stealthing, an enjoyable change of pace.

Apart from that a possibility would be to add affinity multiplcators with 5-10x the xp gain/rep gain

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All I want from the list is improved Stealth mechanics.

 

Visual detection from enemies, awareness bar next to minimap, no instant reactions for enemies seeing a tenno and immediately alerting every person on the tile, etc.

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My problem with syndicate weapons is that there will obviously be better weapons for some syndicates while others get crappy ones. I know it will happen. Give a high damage full auto weapon and the syndicate will get popular quickly. If you are going to make them, make them somewhat on the same level so one isnt entirely better than the other. Making them tradable will help a little bit, but crappy weapons will bring a syndicate down (as discovered by crappy mods in certain syndicates).

 

In terms of stealth: I will not bother sneaking if enemies are clumped in a mob of 10 at every corner of the room. Work with the spawning and distribution while working on the stealth.

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Okay, this hot topic is interesting!

1) Website 2.0

 

It improved since day 1, but it needs too be less "radial blindy". (I still prefer the old one,but the option to switch between both is much appreciated)

 

2) Hardcore mode

 

Why not, but if you want to give players more challenge & replayability, please do this :

 

Bring difficulty settings for each mission, like pretty much all old school games! An normal mode/ a hard mode/ the ability to select any node as a nightmare one/ the hardcore mode you're talking about. Boom! Vets got a challenge & people won't visit a node once and never look back.

 

2) I don't often get disconnected, but I try to avoid doing multiplayer too much, because it highly makes things easier.

 

3) Stealth & Hiding

 

Most interesting point imo (who knew?... :p ), there's a lot to explore there :

- you should think about adding environment stuff we can climb on and the ledge grab mechanic (amazing for stealth, we could use the background to travel unseen),

- the ability to shoot/shut down the lights (and go further with the light/darkness mechanic.We know it's already there DE, just look at Mirage...You just have to make the AI less likely to be alerted depending of the brightness),

- tools to distract the enemies(something buyable for credits,that you can throw in a direction to make them semi-alerted & follow the suspicious thing instead of knowing your exact position),

- make the AI work more natural(animations when idle,reaction time less punishing or at least don't make all enemies in a room directly aware of your failed stealth attack),

-stealth finishers who stun the target for a certain amount of time if you were unsuccessful(you'd still have 5 more seconds to repair your mistake,for instance),

- a max cap of alarms reset. Right now you can go all rambo the whole mission and if you find a console in the extraction room,you can set the alarm off like nothing happened... If I'm in a spaceship and hear the alarm ring 4 times in a row, I'd keep my gun loaded and stay suspicious!

- rewards. No alarm was turned on,no enemy was killed,but we just deserve a "Good job" from Lotus. :/

  A genius redditor talked about one of the possible ways to reward this : why not make successful syndicate missions give no negative reputation? It insanely makes sense, since the only people aware of the operation are your syndicate, Lotus & you. :)

Et caetera...

Much to explore...Stealth is an option, but that doesn't mean that it can't be a viable option.

 

4) Syndicates weapons

 

Everyone should be able to acquire them,but in the same time someone who isn't a member of the weapon's syndicate shouldn't be able to have it easier than the real members,in my opinion. If a new loka player need to grind countless times but someone outside just needs to snap his fingers (and have 10 plats in his pocket) that might not be balanced...

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Hardcore mode: No, I wouldn't do this at all. As someone who does solo a lot, there are a number of times when I go down and have to burn a revive because either I made a mistake or got bushwhacked by three tech eximuses coming up from behind me. Losing the frame I spent resources on and time leveling? No. It'd be especially painful for prime frames or hard to acquire ones like Vauban or Hydroid.

I'd much rather that Nightmare mode get a revamp - improve its rewards and let us choose what mutators to use. (For example: Every additional negative mutator selected could add another nightmare mod to the rewards?)

 

Disconnects: I mostly play solo so I don't encounter this too much.

 

Stealthy: Yeah, new ways for all frames to stealth would be welcome. Right now, you're basically limited to a handful of frames for stealth purposes if you don't bring shade/stealth doge.

 

Syndicate guns: Very yes. It would make up for the generally lackluster weapon and frame mods that syndicates offer. However, there needs to be a way for these to be acquirable without joining a specific syndicate for completionist reasons. It's not really fair for a player who really likes Steel Meridian's lore to be forced to suck up to Perrin just to get, say, the Dera Vandal. Perhaps have the syndicate death squads drop the BPs for their weapons.

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That idea for hardcore mode is horrible:

 

- If someone dies with a Founders/Prime Access/Bought Warframe, it's money wasted.

- What if I die using Mirage or Limbo? I can't redo quests, so I'll never have them back unless I pay.

- What happens to my potato? If I ever rebuild that frame will I need to make/buy another tater?

- If I have 2-3 forma on my frames, that's time, resources and keys/money wasted.

- I'll have to farm again, build again and deal with the stupid waiting time again if I die, or pay up? No thanks.

- Those who don't want to do it/can't do it will have no other way of getting stuff without the market, which means someone has to pay for the platinum either way.

- DE can't even make proper difficulty that doesn't involve random debuffs and knockdowns, hardcore mode would be terrible design plastered all over.

 

That is just the worst idea I've ever seen on the forums, the only thing it brings to table is more farming, more grinding, more paying, more waiting for livestreams, more frustration for missing alerts or invasions. That kind of hardcore mode works on Diablo because I can have multiple accounts/saves with all my stuff safe and start another one for the hardcore mode. Not only we don't have multiple saves but DE doesn't like alts (at least last I checked the user agreement, DE holds the right to ban your alt at any time just for being an alt), so that alone makes it a no.

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I agree I am flabbergasted right now, this game is a super fast paced crazy action shooter and the community hot topics are about, hiding, stealth and hardcore mode !! this is a travesty !! I just can't believe what I'm reading WF is not going in the right direction at all imo if this is what they are working on, couple that with the worst website design I have ever seen (and I'm canadian) , my hopes are quickly dying for this game.

 

DE needs to wake up and realise this game is all about action and add MORE PARKOUR.

Parkour in WF are unstable, glitchy and unpredictable. Even simple "vaulting" mechanic aren't working properly. With air dash and coptering there is no reason to use such thing.

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Who gives a damn about a hc-mode? Arent there more important things going on? Like Warframe balancing (Nekros still is everyones loot *@##$ and has no other use, Limbo is in desperate need of a buff), The everlasting RNG-problem and the fact that archwing mission are hellishly boring and repetitive?

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Instead of a stealth game mode can we have this thing where our warframe goes into a stealth mode? (sort of like melee 2.0)

In 'stealth 2.0' we should be able to run faster, do more parkour moves, go in cover mode and much more.

I agree with stealth but i don't think it should be a whole new game mode because in my opinion that would be a silly idea.

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About forum... just reduce the WHITE Brightness, Red is fine if White is toned down!

 

and btw there are better colors that have more contrast: white Vs red is not so readable if White is so much stronger!

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I would say no on hardcore mode because it would split the community and I don't want to (basically) start over again to try and unlock any new (or the same) exclusive content.

We definitely need better stealth that's more rewarding in warframe...i mean we are suppose to be like ninjas right?

Guess we could have syndicate weapons...but be careful DE because if they are to overpowered then people will say it's not fair and if they are to weak then people will say they're not worth it.

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Hardcore mode : Why not , well also depends what you mean

 

Stealth : does anyone really care abou being stealth? you're a squad of 4 , theire always one to fail

 

Syndic weapon : No , Except if all syndic got the weapon , it's not fun to waste our current point / rank and sacrifice item again ...

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Hardcore mode : Why not , well also depends what you mean

 

Stealth : does anyone really care abou being stealth? you're a squad of 4 , theire always one to fail

 

Syndic weapon : No , Except if all syndic got the weapon , it's not fun to waste our current point / rank and sacrifice item again ...

About stealth, you do know many veteran players do solo right? also what if its a squad of 2 people? (my ash and my ffriends loki would go crazy doing stealth)

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for the syndicate stuff,

im all for weapons from the syndicate were with,

 

im kinda against them being tradeable,

 

only prime weapons are, why tweak it now.

 

i mean if someone wants this syndicate weapon, they have to go get the way we have to go get non primes now.

 

 

id like to see weapon skins.

or maybe some syndicate scarfs, color palettte,

neat little custom stuff for our tenno,

maybe bobbleheads too?

 

maybe even like skins for our warframe or special kurbrow skins.

 

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Hardcore mode : Why not , well also depends what you mean

 

Stealth : does anyone really care abou being stealth? you're a squad of 4 , theire always one to fail

 

Syndic weapon : No , Except if all syndic got the weapon , it's not fun to waste our current point / rank and sacrifice item again ...

Who cares about stealth? Just look at the previous pages, man. I 50% agree though, you can die before encountering a random squad willing to take part into something else than Rambofarming. An optional playstyle.

 

However,this isn't an excuse to let stealth rot in a corner. A game with more than one playstyle is possible.

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I agree I am flabbergasted right now, this game is a super fast paced crazy action shooter and the community hot topics are about, hiding, stealth and hardcore mode !! this is a travesty !! I just can't believe what I'm reading WF is not going in the right direction at all imo if this is what they are working on, couple that with the worst website design I have ever seen (and I'm canadian) , my hopes are quickly dying for this game.

 

DE needs to wake up and realise this game is all about action and add MORE PARKOUR.

Stealth 2.0 needs Parkour 2.0 man, they don't delete each other.

 

Also,this game can be a super fast paced crazy action shooter AND a game with successful sneak around at the same time.Trust me.

You feel threatened of losing your farmer/run&gun playstyle?Don't worry, cause it'd be an option! Rushers can rush if they want, explorers can explore if they want, acrobatic ninja could do acrobatic moves, and quiet ninja could do missions like an incognito ninja would(ninjutsu : art of espionage.Shinobi Iri!!!).

 

You need viable ways to parkour, we need viable ways to make things happen like it was an accident...

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Syndicate specific Warframes/Weapons would be an excellent implementation, but bear in mind the makers of the gear.

For example, the highly offensive Red Veil weapons, the 'in your face' weapons of the Steel Meridian, the energy weapons of The Perrin Sequence...

And I think the Arbiters should lean towards melee, or unusual weapon styles, such as crossbows or sniper rifles. They seem to be the kind of people who want to stand out, be unique.

Nah

 

hexis should be more tenno "traditional weapons" 

 

Like bows nikanas and blades , lots and lots of blades

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the hardcore mode would only be good if your got some of the resources from the broken warframe and if the build time was cut in half(at least)

 

 

the problem with the hardcore mode is if you only have 1 warframe and that one frame was built in hardcore mode...what would happen when it breaks?

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Forum Theme:

So not going back to the black theme as standard? Well i can live with that, as long as the old one remains as alternative.

 

Maybe you should switch the red text to dark blue. Dark blue should still be very visible and it would also fit with blue energy glow on the Warframes "helmet sensors" in the backround.

 

I think it could also be usefull if the color of the backround stays more consistent between the left and the right exposed parts of the image. Either take the greyish color with white elements from Ember's side or use the white one from Rhino's side.

 

Hardcore Mode:

I don't think the idea is worth to divert development attention towards currently.

 

In general i think the perma death is a bad idea, since it's not uncommon for hotfixes, patches or new game modes to change things in the game which can cause unexpected deaths to even the best prepared players. Take the tactical alerts for example where you tested how players will behave if enemies have normal health and shield but insanely high damage. Deaths of players everywhere, ha ha.

 

Or think of the Stalker and how many times balancing has accidently made him too strong by accident (it is difficult to make such an enemy strong enough to be a threat but weak enough to be fair fight).

As beta players our job is to find those out and provide feedback so they can be fixed. If we lose our entire Warframe the moment we die from such oversights or balancing mistakes , it's not because of missing skill or preperation but by mistake and that's just anger inducing.

 

Now about alternatives?

 

Well one i could think off, would be that the Warframe is not permanently dead, but just out for the mission. Essentialy instead of being able to be revived by your team mates all they can do is to recover your body, so it's revived after missions.

 

"But what if they don't or if i play solo?" Well in that case your Warframe has been kidnapped like what Zanuka does, but since it wasn't taken "alive" you can't simply wake up with the Lotus freeing you.

 

Once this happens you aren't back in the Liset but find yourself in "the cell" a bleak Corpus/Grineer/Infested/Corrupted room with your Warframe chained up. However you can still activate your option menu to do all your necessary paperwork.

To escape the Cell you need to "leave your Warframe" behind and switch to another on your Liset. In doing so you get a "rescue beacon" quest. On this you can invite fellow players to help you recover your Warframe. Said mission does not provide any rewards but those you pick up.

 

An alternative to going to your Liset could be to activate the rescue beacon inside the cell. In doing so you go to the mission screen and can invite players like normal. But you need at least one fellow player to start it, because you yourself can't do anything in the mission until the other players recovered your Warframe.

 

However again something like this should be worked on MUCH later in development.

 

Syndicate Weapons

 

Well this could be a nice way for solo players to get their hands on Dojo Research weapon without needing to build an entire Dojo just for themself.

 

Of course they could also provide unique skinned upgraded variants of fitting weapons for a large amount of standing points. Another form of bragging rights and a display of veterancy, but not as exclusive as Event Reward weapons.

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As for disconnects, the latest update (the minor one, after the update 15) has made my disconnects far far higher. Going from about one or two a day, (usually randoms with different NAT types) to frequent disconnects at random with anyone regardless of NAT type (always during the mission loading).

 

Also the new forum theme colours need to have the brightness reduced by at least 50%, try swapping out the white for a shade of grey or something. I don't know why but it is far, far too bright.

 

As for a hardcore mode. It really depends on what you could gain for what you could lose. And bear in mind there are gonna be A LOT of support tickets if you launch this idea. People can ignore a random death due to a bug in the game sometimes, but if it meant losing a weapon/warframe or something valuable they are gonna be very angry.

 

As for the hide mechanic, it all depends how it would work as to if I would use it, I honestly can't picture how it would work.

 

And lastly syndicate weapons. I think that syndicate weapons would be a great addition. But I think it should work by: you can buy the blueprints for your syndicates specific weapons, which can also be traded. Enemy death squads would also drop there syndicate specific weapon blueprints allowing you to access all the weapons without being forced to trade. Death squad weapon blueprint drops would be rare like stalker drops, making trading always a viable option if you have bad luck getting that one part blueprint.

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4) Syndicates weapons If this was to be implemented then the requirement would be to meet the Syndicate Rank to equip and use the weapon. Agree to them being tradeable but at some point why allow folks to get the reward without the risk. The Syndicate mods should have the same Syndicate rank restriction in my opinion.

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Hardcore Mode

I think the first thing we need to talk about is how hardcore is "hardcore".  If you build a frame and it's killed during a mission, does that mean you can never have the frame again? Or you just have to build another one? The first one sounds silly. I'd be okay with the second, if it came with some SERIOUS rewards, like unique super-mods or distinct cosmetics that don't come from anywhere else.  Whatever it is, it shouldn't be tradable. Doing missions on hardcore is a personal challenge and should not lead into new farming opportunities.

 

Mission disconnects

It's always confused me why the game will not allow reconnections by people to a session they have dropped from, when it clearly has the capacity for join-in-progress.   My feeling is that missions should allow musical chairs drop-in invites or matchmaking, up until the point where it currently disallows further joins with "objective has been completed".  Once a mission has reached this point, it should remember the IDs of the players who were active and freely allow them to re-join if they fall off.  Though, to exclude certain types of exploits, a player who joins after a reward milestone should not retroactively gain all the rewards they missed. You have to be present to profit.

 

Stealth Hiding

Stealth already kinda-sorta works in Warframe. The biggest obstacle to doing missions in stealth mode is that it takes far longer  and there is currently no reason to invest the time needed. DE needs to make stealth worth the attempt before they look for ways to improve stealth mechanics.

 

Syndicate Weapons

If you're prepared to commit to creating and properly balancing 6 new things so that they are useful, unique, AND equal then I would rather have syndicate companions than "just another gun" that 90% of players will forget about in a month. It seems more reasonable that a syndicate would be able to give you useful manpower than that they would be able to compete with cutting edge Tenno weaponry anyway.

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And about Syndicate weapons. I would gladly welcome more Syndicate rewards, but for the sake of completionism please make them tradeable. If they are not, then Syndicates would be such a pain for players who are going to collect everything possible.

And if you are gonna make them untradable, then at least make parts of these weapons dropable from death squads.

making anything hard locked inside syndicate would be a direct attack for completion minded people, and your "solutions" would be making 2 worse moves to try to fix a bad one, trading would reward the glitch / exploit farmers and hurt game economy, and death squads would only offer more RNG madness, after 8 months playing i have only found dreads, which may make this way more time consuming than making the full turn by all syndicates.

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