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Some Possible Suggestions For Mesa.


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I'm going to preface this by saying that, while I do not currently have Mesa (going to take awhile since I've got 1 nav key and need 2 and there are no coordinate invasions currently) I have seen a gameplay and read up enough to get a fairly good idea of the general mechanics.

 

 

One of the bigger issues I've seen is that people are bothered by the fact that, while Mesa has those fancy guns on her arms, she uses them for 1 out of her 4 abilities so I tried to figure out ways to incorporate them into abilities without many drastic changes to the ones we currently have.

 

 

 

Suggestions/Opinions:

 

 

1. Ballistic Battery

 

Ballistic Battery sounds interesting to me but falls flat in usefulness because it's a single powerful shot that lacks innate pucnh-through/AOE  which, as a bow/sniper user is what can make or break a weapon/ability. Only being able to take out a single enemy, even if that enemy is incredibly powerful/dangerous generally just doesn't cut it (I am saying generally, sometimes taking out a single target can be worth it usually not the majority of the time).

 

Fix A : I say take Ballistic Battery's basic idea but instead of channeling the damage into a single powerful shot from your current weapon let is charge Mesa's gun's.  Let's say that when you active the power the first time it charges like it originally does. On the second activation Mesa pulls out her pistols loaded with 4/8/10/12 bullets which do 50%/60%/70%/80% of the damage absorbed per shot of finisher damage with some amount of punch-through (These are Mesa's personal pistols that are grafted onto the frame, they should be pretty powerful).  Maybe have it have a slower firing rate or heavy recoil to counterbalance the damage and prevent the power from being too strong, could lead to some nice heavy/powerful sounding shots it it was heavy recoil though.

 

example: You activate Ballistic Battery (level 0), you charge it to 1000 damage. you activate it, each bullet does 500 damage per shot.

 

This allows the power to target individuals of your choice and multiplies the damage output but requires a bit of skill to get it all down range.

 

Fix B: Keep the same mechanics, but just supercharge the entire clip of the weapon for a percentage of the damage stored. (damage boost decreases with clip size so it balances out a little).

 

Fix B2: Same as above but instead of just Mesa, supercharge the clip of every ally as long as they are within a certain range of Mesa.

 

 

 

2. Shooting Gallery

 

Shooting Gallery was a bit more difficult to work with.  The basic idea isn't bad, preventing enemies from shooting at you or your team mates isn't bad but the fact that it jumps from player to player randomly means that unless you're all in a single area it can be hard to benefit from it.  

 

Fix A : One possibility went against my plan on keeping these suggestions as close to the original as possible but could be something interesting. When Shooting Gallery is activated every enemy within the radius of the power whether Mesa has LoS or not is highlighted (something similar to the scanner); as long as an enemy is highlighted they can be targeted and shot no matter how much is between you and them. Basically it gives everyone infinite punchthrough when firing as highlighted enemies.  If it worked like this the range might want to be beefed up a bit and certain weapons, mainly launchers probably, wouldn't work with the power.  

 

Fix B: Another option, again going against my main plan of keeping it similar would be to have it be a kind of lock on power.  Basically, you activate the power and it during the duration of 2/4/6/8 seconds every enemy your reticle passes over is locked on by Mesa and once the duration ends Mesa pulls out her pistols dealing 200/400/800/1000 finisher damage to every target. Enemies that have moved out of Mesa's line of sight are still hit as the bullets from her gun's ricochet to hit them.  Might be too similar to Peacekeeper and the altered version of Ballistic Battery might make this obsolete but the fact that you just have to pass over an enemy not hover over to lock on might save it.

 

Fix C: A bit closer to the original concept but again, this power was hard to figure out something new for.  Keep the basic mechanics for Shooting Gallery, including the random switching between team members, but also allow the aura to highlight an enemy and after it highlights a minimum of 8/6/5/4 have it jump to a teammate. Once around them it repeats the process, cycling between players and highlighting and disabling enemies.  A highlighted enemy takes takes 20%/40%/60%/80% extra damage and any enemy that is highlighted can be targeted and shot by an ally no matter what is between the two. Basically, take the first idea and combine it with the base idea.

 

 

Out of the 3 I prefer fix C.  The reason I wanted to have it highlight enemies is because that way it actually simulates a shooting gallery.  The power points out a target so players can shoot said target no matter where they are.

 

 

 

3. Shatter Shield

 

 

From what I understand after the hotfix this power has become incredibly strong, making Mesa one of the tankier frames in the game. While I'm personally not opposed to having such a power I can see why people say it doesn't really fit the theme.

 

Fix: Tried to fit Mesa's guns into this option as well as fit the theme of the name better.  Upon activation Mesa pulls out her guns and, whenever an enemy fires she fires back as long as she can see them, impacting the shot in midair, shattering the projectile as soon as it leaves the barrel of the enemies gun (yes, even corpus lasers), dealing a percentage of the damage (20%/40%/50%/60% probably) of their shot in a small AOE (2-4 meters) and stunning the shooter for 1 second. The power drains power per shot  (25 energy to activate, 10/8/6/5 per shot affected by efficiency). It's sort of like a longer range, enemy specifc Absorb. Another option would be to allow the player to only use secondary weapons so they can at least do something while the power is active instead of just moving around.

 

The power was a bit iffy to work with, especially since I wanted to get the guns in there somehow. I wasn't sure if I should have the player with or without a weapon while the power is active.

 

 

4. Peacemaker

 

I honestly don't know what I would change for Peacemaker. From what I've seen it looks like a useful, powerful if a little boring power.

 

Fix A: Don't change anything mechanically but add some extra omph to the animations and sounds. Brighter and bigger muzzle flashes. Maybe instead of having Mesa rooted to the spot create a small AOE around her that she flips around in just to make the power more dynamic.

 

Fix A2: Keep the AOE idea, but allow the flips to act as some damage mitigation. This can actually work rather well because of the recent changes to movement and how movement is now supposed to decrease enemy shot accuracy. Maybe increase the energy drain slightly to balance it out.

 

Fix A3: Keep all of the above but also make it so you need to aim in the direction of the targets. You still autotarget and shoot with a click but you actually need to have the screen oriented toward the target.

 

Fix B: I've seen this basic suggestion in other threads but I thought I'd basic throw in my partial support for the idea. Make Peacemaker a gun based Hysteria.  Infinite ammo (limited by energy pool instead) Heavy damage/a heavy damage multiplier based on sidearm damage (again, finisher damage probably), high punchthrough, maybe add some pistol whips as the quick melee instead of using the equipped melee weapon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q/A that I can think of premptively

 

 

Q: Why finisher damage?

 

A: Because, like I said, Mesa's Regulator Pistols are a weapon built into a warframe, just like Ash's arm blades.  That kind of weapon is going to be/should be incredibly powerful. Also, since it ignores damage mitigation from armor it could also be spun fluff wise as Mesa being a good enough shot to always hit the tiny gaps in the enemy armor and getting right down to the gooey/soon-to-be-gooey inside.

 

 

 

I probably didn't balance the powers as well as I could have, I mostly focused on getting the concepts for the "fixes" instead of fleshing them out as well as I could have.

 

 

 

 

Thoughts, opinions, chasing me out of the forum with torches and pitchforks?

 

 

 

EDIT: added another option for Ballistic Battery and Peacemaker.  I didn't call Peacemaker Peacekeeper shut up.

Edited by Aumaan
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I like your suggestion for #1 very much for either a change or an augment mod. I could see it as either one. Maybe change the power so it fires ONE shot from just one pistol for the full damage. Then make an augment so she gets X shots at Y% of the full damage instead.

 

#2 and #3 are just trying way too hard IMO. Those powers are fine as-is IMHO. Though obviously numbers need adjusting, their core mechanics are absolutely fine IMO.

 

#4 has lots of small little nitpicky problems. Slow start-up, loss of control offensively and defensively, no skill cap despite requiring lots of input... in my feedback thread I suggested that she have an attack that fires towards the crosshair during that slow start up. Give people something to do, make it feel more immediate and give the player control over the first target. These should be minimum of yellow crit, so there's incentive to get headshots (skill cap) as well.

Edited by VKhaun
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#1 was honestly the easiest to work with so I was able to get a much clearer idea of an alternative for it.  

 

I will say I tried a little hard to get the gun into #2 but the #2 + gun option was just a possibility and not my main idea for it.  I just felt like a power called Shooting Gallery should create a shooting gallery instead of just giving really weak damage boost and disabling weapons practically at random and I figured the best way to do that was to highlight enemies and allow people to target them from anywhere.

 

#3, yeah, I also tried a little too hard to get the gun into that one.  But, I honestly don't think the idea is entirely implausible, being able to shoot bullets out of the air is one of those cliche super-gunman/shooter abilities and I thought it might fit a bit better with the theme instead of a generic reflector shield.

 

#4. As for Peacekeeper, maybe simply having to aim in the correct direction would be enough to alleviate some of the lack of input problem. Keep the same auto-targeting but you need to at least have the target on screen to shoot them.

 

 

Don't me wrong in these suggestions, at their core I'm fine with all the abilities Mesa has(like you said the numbers need some adjusting), but as another topic states, she really feels like a missed opportunity to me.  

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I think an interesting change to Shooting Gallery would be, sticking with its name here, to either slow down or completely freeze enemies within an area around Mesa and then boost up her gun damage and accuracy. Teammates within the area would also receive the gun buffs. Thus making the skill and enemies within it a literal shooting gallery. That said, I like all your other suggestions. Peacemaker really does feel stiff, and I think adding your suggestions of flips and having to aim in the general direction of enemies would really add to it, making it feel more interactive and not just mashing a button.

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I think an interesting change to Shooting Gallery would be, sticking with its name here, to either slow down or completely freeze enemies within an area around Mesa and then boost up her gun damage and accuracy. Teammates within the area would also receive the gun buffs. Thus making the skill and enemies within it a literal shooting gallery. That said, I like all your other suggestions. Peacemaker really does feel stiff, and I think adding your suggestions of flips and having to aim in the general direction of enemies would really add to it, making it feel more interactive and not just mashing a button.

 

 

I like the idea of freezing/slowing enemies for Shooting Gallery but it might be too strong for a #2, especially if it buffs damage and accuracy for Mesa and her team.  Removing the alternating aura target would probably make Mesa much easier to use but it might take some of the uniqueness away from the power.

 

Glad you like the other suggestions.

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#2 and #3 are just trying way too hard IMO. Those powers are fine as-is IMHO. Though obviously numbers need adjusting, their core mechanics are absolutely fine IMO.

 

But tell us how you really feel.

 

On topic, I wouldn't say those two are fine. Shooting Gallery jumps randomly between party members without any rhyme or reason (which is what I'd call trying way too hard to stand out, mind), Shatter Shield is a blatant clone of Turbulence, and both present unimaginative additions to a gunslinger's arsenal. I get the feeling by looking at them that the devs just couldn't think of anything better.

Edited by Archwizard
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imo the problem with Mesa is her 2 and 3. 

 

It's not a number or damage problem with them, it's the very design of them and how they don't really suit Mesa thematically or have much synergy with the rest of her abilities. And Shatter Shield is just a very slightly different Zephyr shield.

 

Her 1 could also do with some fine tuning and re-evaluation. Granted, knowing DE from their past fixes, they're not going to change her abilities but just buff them, which is a disappointment. She had a lot of potential.

 

Also just want to say that it seems many warframes seem to have at least 1 or 2 useless skills that nobody uses. Mirage's Sleight of Hand, Nyx's psycho bolts etc. and now Mesa's Shooting Gallery. Huge indication of lack of creativity and forethought.

Edited by Tangerine
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Can some one tell me why Mesa is so ridiculously difficult to attain? And why it seems that this update caters only for those with platinum and not those who have to press hours into this dumb design mission just to get a part blueprint for her? Why can't they put a damn timer on the boss after you've used up the nav cors? About four hours would be nice for Alad v assassination mission to be valid instead of making it a @(*()$ key. Not even mirage or limbo was this bad. at least you would get a different part with each mission unlike this garbage. Fix the @(*()$ thing man, most people who don't have the time simply gave up of Mesa, she only looks cool, all of her abilities hardly make her worth rolling with now.

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But tell us how you really feel.

 

On topic, I wouldn't say those two are fine. Shooting Gallery jumps randomly between party members without any rhyme or reason (which is what I'd call trying way too hard to stand out, mind), Shatter Shield is a blatant clone of Turbulence, and both present unimaginative additions to a gunslinger's arsenal. I get the feeling by looking at them that the devs just couldn't think of anything better.

 

While I'll agree shooting gallery is trying to hard to be unique, unique is good, we need more unique powers, it's just that because the power is lackluster it falls flat and doesn't feel really unique as much as a tacked on psuedo-unique.

 

I'll agree completely on Shatter Shield being a clone, it really could have been a lot better.  It's not a bad power it's just plain and simply not creative.

 

 

4 is gun-kata thing

DE should give it %chance to dodge enemies' attack (and make us not totally stationary, and can move will greatly reduced speed)

others are fine

As long as the movement is vastly reduced it could be a good idea to let Mesa move, and if they beefed up the animations to include crouching, minor flips or such things a %chance to dodge attacks could easily work.

 

 

imo the problem with Mesa is her 2 and 3. 

 

It's not a number or damage problem with them, it's the very design of them and how they don't really suit Mesa thematically or have much synergy with the rest of her abilities. And Shatter Shield is just a very slightly different Zephyr shield.

 

Her 1 could also do with some fine tuning and re-evaluation. Granted, knowing DE from their past fixes, they're not going to change her abilities but just buff them, which is a disappointment. She had a lot of potential.

 

Also just want to say that it seems many warframes seem to have at least 1 or 2 useless skills that nobody uses. Mirage's Sleight of Hand, Nyx's psycho bolts etc. and now Mesa's Shooting Gallery. Huge indication of lack of creativity and forethought.

 

It is kinda disappointing that we're still getting powers that are effectively useless even this far into the game.  I don't know how effective Sleight of Hand because I just recently leveled Mirage and I spend most of my time spamming AkVasto Hall of Mirrors rain of death; but I do know how seriously disappointing Psychic Bolts are, I use every other one of Nyx's skills (160m mind control, if I can see them they're mine) I've used Psychic bolt just to test it out and it's really disappointing.

While I wouldn't put Shooting Gallery on the same level as Psychic Bolt I can definitely see it not being used sadly.

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Honestly the two is very useful in my opinion, maybe less so in a group who's al spread out, but in a defense mission it's super useful as it provides a stun and boosts damage which is nice. Her three is yes similar to turbulence, but I almost hav never seen turbulence actually reflect damage I have noticed this on shatter shield so it's working as advertised. On the idea of her four I like it as is, the range the grace it's beautiful. Will say her one isn't getting use from me overall, i mean it could be useful at higher levels for really heavy hitters but for general use I'll stick to my 2 and 3 with occassional 4 use.

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While I'll agree shooting gallery is trying to hard to be unique, unique is good, we need more unique powers, it's just that because the power is lackluster it falls flat and doesn't feel really unique as much as a tacked on psuedo-unique.

 

I'm not saying being unique is bad either - just that making it random (and virtually nothing else we can't get from Roar) is not a good way to do it.

Edited by Archwizard
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