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New Gameplay With Infested: No Vision, No Movespeed, No Damage, No Energy. You Wot, De?


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It seems like the way infested work is an attempt to neutralize the killers from up on high approach to infested, but the short of it all is that it becomes a matter of un-fun death-trap or monotonous as your two options.

I can see why DE took this approach, Take ODD for example it was possible to sit up high and kill wave after wave completely uncontested, but i think this is down to map problems rather than enemy problems, i know they have somewhat fixed this with the invisible walls/pushing for ODD specifically i think redesigning the map would be a better approach the currently implemented suck all the energy and invisible walls/pushing just seams lazy

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I like the effort to bring new enemies, but these new fellas are just cheap. 

 

Enemies and events like this one are the main reason why we will never see the community supporting some proper weapon and frame rebalance. This is something that people should consider before defending the "challenge". There is a price to pay in this.

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That's the cancer of the game really.  If success comes down to "use rhino" or just "vortex + prime", then the variety of the game suffers.  We have enough rhinos as-is.

There are many ways and frames to beat new infestation, esp in full team. If someone can't find or use them, he/she should use glorious Noobframe or just shut up and git gud.

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Disagree. I like the new enemies a lot, especially the tar MOA. It's tricky to deal with without directly disabling you, and synergizes well with hordes. The other ones are nice too, brood mothers are quite cool. 

 

^^^^^^ THIS

 

i fully enjoy the new infested smog fx and everything else

 

-9999 OP

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What I'm getting from this is DE really needs to make two levels of difficulties, that aren't just HP/Damage buffs like T1/2/3/4 Void is, or Warframe debuffs like Nightmare is. They need to make a mode where all of the things people in this thread are complaining about are kept, then tone it down for the normal game. Because there are obviously people in this thread, me included, who enjoy these mechanics and the challenge they bring.

 

This mutalist survival is not impossible (and I know most people here aren't saying it is), and it doesn't require a perfect group make up either. I got to 32 minutes and 38 minutes, respectively, as Frost and Ash. In the first run, we only had 3 people, and in the second, it was me, two Rhinos, and a Limbo who died 25 minutes in and couldn't res for the rest of the mission. I ran with Sybaris, MK-1 Kunai and Kestrel, and Phage, Marelok and Bo Prime. Corrosive/heat mods, except for Phage with Viral/Corrosive/Blast and Corrosive/Blast on Kestrel/Bo Prime.

 

Neither was a spam 4 fest. I had to use my aiming skills, with Sybaris, be mobile, either rolling to get rid of those status effects, or when things got really hot, jump, roll, and scramble to get out of the horde of Infested threatening to trap me. THAT was awesome. I love it when it gets to the point where you can't just blow everyone away, and have to beat a tactical retreat. I had to CC, sometimes freezing an Ancient that was about to hook me, or ragdolling enemies with Kestrel to get some breathing room, or Avalanche, or Bladestorm to recover my shields and help get some attention off my teammates. Blah blah blah, there was a lot of things that challenged me as a player. It was great.

 

For some of us, DE is doing something right. I've had more fun with the last tactical alert, with the 3 Guardian Osprey energy draining Corpus capture targets, and these new mutalist infested units, than I have for most of the game. I also enjoyed the Suspicious Shipments alerts, the Hyena pack, Cyrotic Front, and others, but my point is I'm having more fun with these new developments, not less. I can see though that a lot of people aren't having fun. Fine. That's why we need a different difficulty mode, because there are those of us who are having a lot of fun from this.

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I did it with a Tigris on an unmaxed Mesa with Pugs first time.

Just prioritize the dangerous units, kill them as fast as possible, then wipe out the trash mobs.

Stay mobile, and rebind roll to something easy to hit (I use E)

As long as you actively focus on killing the nasty units, you should be alright.

Corrosive Fire is by far your best bet, but running Viral on a high Puncture weapon also works.

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I actually understand what you are talking about. I had a match today in random pub where just 2 of us - Nyx and Nova managed to hold on for 30 minutes with quite reasonable difficulties. We could have stayed longer, but got Tethra mod on 20m, so I insisted we leave, as I was scared to lose it (lol). It was not bad at all and I restrained from wankerie with energy restore and ability spam as well, for the sake of maintaining quality of the match

 

But m8, before you give final evaluation, I urge you to go and run that mission several times in solo mode with non-OP warframe and assess what is really going on. Do you really "have fun" when you do EVERYTHING right and nice and then suddenly die, because somewhere there, F*** knows where, behind 100 walls stays Mob with aura with a toxic proc chance? Aura that kills you, mob does nothing, just stays there and you die. No one touches you, even your shield is intact, but -1 revive. Huh, fun? Or another one: you rush to the live support capsule, there seem to be enought time, but when you walk around there corner, there's a hook in your mug, immediately followed by shock wave that throws you out of the ledge, to that bottomless pit, which was added to every map in this game for a reason unknown by DE (I guess I'm supposed to thank them it doesn count as death to fall into that pit). Then, after you have fallen and have respawned, you get hit in the face by ancient that throws you there once again. And then maybe once more, but not necessarily, fact is, you have wasted too many time being thrown into the pit repeatedly, you don't have enough to reach and activate capsule.

 

There are other unfortunate examples I could probably come up with, and no way in hell I can understand how someone can actually partake in them and have fun.

 

And another thing: there are many ways to deliver challenge. This one is enjoyable to you, but so may be the others. There are really lots of alternatives. Yet they have picked this particular one, which they know &!$$es off some players here (and I'm not talking about me, the complains about CC and stuns were here before I even started to play. Like when they first introduced Scorpions). Why? Because it is the simplest one. But I say, such challenge is being brought at the expense of gameplay quality, and it will have harmful effect, if repeated to many times.

 

 

all i read was mission too hard im noob halp plz

Then your reading comprehension is well below satisfactory, which is not at all surprising, considering your style of narration.

 

I did it with a Tigris on an unmaxed Mesa with Pugs first time.

So "pugs" carried you? Ok. glad for you, and thanks for advices, tho I don't need them anymore, I've finished mission before starting this thread.

 

 

Yeah, you won't be able to do infested survivals like you have been for the past few months. Deal with it. Learn how to deal with them. There are plenty of people who have adapted.

I didn't do them, I hate survival as a game mode. And I don't want to adapt. It's in human nature to want to adapt environment to themselves, not the other way around. A burden of being sentient.

 

And this game is still in beta, and is prone to changes. I just share my vision and give feedback, as should everyone else. Then, ofc, DE will decide if something will stay, or go, but the opinions should be aired, that's why this forum exists - to assess and give feedback, not to adapt silently to everything that comes your way

Edited by Ska-boo
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Stayed 'till 30 min, just to get the mods, on my second try with a pug. Ash with max vitality build, plus Dragon Nikana (just heat, didn't even bother with corrosive). Used Bladestorm a grand total of 3 times when I was to lazy to run across the room to kill a couple of odd mobs. Everything else died to melee spam with occasional Channel to replenish health. Top kills, top damage at the end of the match and all that nonsense. Where is this difficulty some of you guys are talking about?

 

OP is spot on in my opinion. This is only hellishly difficult for new players who have no access to OP stuff and for veterans it is either: a) try to use your brain = LOL FAIL NUB or b) just use the most cheesy, spamy and unimaginative build you can think of (as I did in the aforementioned example) = INSTA WIN, YOU SO PRO. As per usual in Warframe. I do agree that diminishing returns would alleviate the problem somewhat, but it's more of a fundamental design flaw/conflict - on the one hand they speak about making the game more skill based and on the other they encourage 4-spam builds even more with those changes.  

Edited by tisdfogg
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actually i think that does look pretty cool

 

much more like what the idea of an infestation that threatens the entire system should be like

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The missions certainly weren't hard with the correct setups, they were in fact a complete cakewalk with Trinity and Valkyr (surprise surprise, two of the most overpowered frames in the game), but they were definitely excessively frustrating. Between the one shot Tar Mutalist Moas and the surprise 600 damage Toxic Ancients and the black screen that forces me to use melee only and the infested pinball nonsense, I can't decide which was worse. Just please tone it down, this isn't challenging in the slightest, just frustrating and not fun to play. The Boilers and Broodmothers though were great additions to the game. 

 

Sometimes, I wonder whether people play games for fun or not, because this isn't fun.

Edited by CapedBaldy
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  • 2 months later...

You might wanna try a different playstyle. Full melee, basicly a berserk build (in generall, not partcular based on the mod. Like maxed health and armor+ rage and life strike)with paralysis focus( best used with the augument)...i know what you mean, played a hysteria build while the event was still going, soon switched to my frost for the later half of the time to farm High Noon back then...they are not that hard but need a element that was kinda ignored till that point: CC.

Slow them or knock them down and you're good to go.

Edited by (PS4)CoolD2108
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(...) new AI, new tilesets, reworked quantity and quality of enemies. Infested species that feel like real alien horror, that stalk you from the darkness, attack suddenly and coordinately, and retreats back into ship's darkest corner to escape retaliation. Creatures that act as actual animals/predators with hivemind and not like Zerglings, controlled by 3 y.o. kid. 

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Also, energy drain is one of the cheapest most annoying ways to create "difficulty".

 

Having to use every tool in your arsenal to survive = difficult and satisfying

Having your tools arbitrarily taken away = artificial game difficulty, bad game design.

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man I thought this was a new thread till I saw the dates... but I do agree.. I went solo on sechura... barely made it wave 10 with huge mob, 4 tar moas 3 disruptors, 3 energy drain aura eximus, 3 swarm moas, and 4 healer ancients keeping them all nigh unkillable cause I cant see anything, cant do anything cause I'm a ping pong ball, cant kill anything cause healers super heals the moment penta even lands near anything, no actual aoe or energy cause disrupters and energy drain aura, cant see cause a lil squad of chargers is running on behind me carrying swarm, cant kill them because damn healers..... how did I finally just barely make it with pod heaving 205 health left..... by being just as cheap.. slam attacks. jump and slam, jump and slam, jump and slam.. that was the only option left to me.. Luckily I had a fragor so the slam AoE isn't small, but I feel sorry for anyone that doesn't even have that as an option.

 

the only way to deal with these cheap cheesy units, is do do something that is even cheesier... that really is just as low as it can go

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yea I've noticed this for all enemy factions actually, mostly in survival,  there's swarms of enemies specialized in making tenno useless unless they have efficiency nuking and high powered gun builds, leaving other options of playing the game impossible. maybe survival was never meant to be a solo type mission?

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I agree with OP. They need to nerf the spawns a bit, because I'm tired of literally running ontop of a SEA of infested. With tons of ancients, eximus, and all sorts of other goodies that are as fast as I am(except if I'm Loki/Limbo, but you're so paper thin that you're downed constantly). I can't get away, if I stop to try to shoot I'll get killed, and my energy will be gone mostly because of disruptors or energy leeches. That doesn't even count the chain knockdowns you deal with. And No, handspring is not a viable option because of how bad the chaining can get, and because that mod slot is better used for health/shield/armor depending on your frame.

 

The Tar Moas need a nerf, either in DMG or in spawn numbers. People have been screaming for a nerf since they were introduced and supposedly there was one, but I can't tell a lick of difference.

 

Every few months each faction gets worse enemies that makes it less fun to fight them. It's getting really annoying.

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Every infested unit with this update was something interesting for the horde. It turned what used to be a trivial faction (Vauban + Penta) into something quite a bit more threatening. The only thing I really hate are the guys that I initially loved: The Moas. 

 

The idea of giving infested one ranged horde is a serious game changer for approaching the faction. Now while you could still set up a camp, it became a bit more difficult. This wasn't something you could idle away for as long as a Vortex was up, you had to be paying attention to what was spawning. Much like the Healers with their buff, seeking out the Moas and taking them out quickly was the key for surviving the rest of the faction. Though I never much enjoyed being one-shot by the tar balls, there was nothing more satisfying than doing a backflip out of the way of the projectile, and they actually helped me learn how to make use of my Warframe's movement capabilities. The Tars were much more a problem than the Swarm. TBH, I always felt like the Swarm was perfect at their design. Minor damage to keep your shield off, while obscuring your vision.

 

Now that I've been spending a good long time with them, as well as hunting them for their pigment. The Swarms need to have some kind of modifier on the frequency of their shots. Like has been said, there's just too many of the swarm clouds to be able to do anything but roll, if you want to have a chance at seeing your targets. I think Tar shots need to not do damage, or do minor ticks of damage like the Swarm clouds do. I like the idea to the faction: Slow down a Warframe while the rest of the horde swarms you. But the damage on some of those higher level Tars is a little absurd since you can't really get out of the Tar if you're unlucky enough to get stuck in the middle of it. Rolling only does so much.

 

As an aside, my go-to gal for this faction has become Saryn. Handspring has been viable for me on most of my frames when it comes to knock down, something I've appreciated more and more as time goes on. Regenerative Molt keeps her alive, and distracts the mobs enough that I can seek out the VIP targets that I want to kill, namely the Healers. 

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