Moves 2.0 (Part Ii) : Throws & Grabs

[unknow99]

+1 it would be a good idea to carry corpse so that enimies wouldn't witness it and why don't u do ability 2.0?

Abilities 2.0 huh? I always liked that thread about power synergy, and another one with the passive abilities...

 

I might put it into paper too! :)

[ENIAK_Prime]

The only thing I could possibly add to this is that when you grab a foe while your melee is equipped, the gutpunch should be replaced with jabbing/smacking them with your weapon. :V

Edited December 5, 2014 by Soldatto

[XToxinator]

Abilities 2.0 huh? I always liked that thread about power synergy, and another one with the passive abilities...

 

I might put it into paper too! :)

THANKS!

[DSpite]

If you want this, go play Farcry 3/4.

I can charge my Glaive, throw it, and it DISINTEGRATES the enemy SILENTLY.

Why do people always try to shoehorn useless mechanics in a game that is not DESIGNED to be played that way.

 

We spend most of our time hunting bosses for drops by racing through levels, we don't "stop and kill" individual units, this is also why an extensive stealth redo and "parkour" is pointless.

 

There is ZERO game modes where this idea would be useful. This concepts work in games that have fixed, compact combat mechanics with low amount of units, not enemies that swarm you, have auras, hit you with hooks etc etc.

 

While you are doing this crap, the team has wiped the tiles with Ults, and you are holding the last enemy in an empty room to throw at a wall.

 

EDIT: Love the artwork.

Edited December 3, 2014 by DSpite

[r0ckwolf]

We need this, no question, no discussion! Good suggestions and a nice drawing.

[unknow99]

If you want this, go play Farcry 3/4.

I can charge my Glaive, throw it, and it DISINTEGRATES the enemy SILENTLY.

Why do people always try to shoehorn useless mechanics in a game that is not DESIGNED to be played that way.

 

We spend most of our time hunting bosses for drops by racing through levels, we don't "stop and kill" individual units, this is also why an extensive stealth redo and "parkour" is pointless.

 

There is ZERO game modes where this idea would be useful. This concepts work in games that have fixed, compact combat mechanics with low amount of units, not enemies that swarm you, have auras, hit you with hooks etc etc.

 

While you are doing this crap, the team has wiped the tiles with Ults, and you are holding the last enemy in an empty room to throw at a wall.

 

EDIT: Love the artwork.

You can't have good criticism without negative feedback(not surprised it came from you... :3 )

 

I see what you mean : catching someone might slow the gameplay if you have a rush mode in mind/want to farm as much stuff as possible in no time/just want to speedrun a planet node you haven't unlocked yet.

 

However, imagine yourself in a squishy frame. While you're waiting for your pals to get out of that survival mission near the co-op doors, enemies with high accuracy are shooting your low health character,and you ran out of ammo.... What it offers you would be :

Ruk it, I grab the nearest foe, protect myself with his body when gunshots are coming from everywhere, aim at the group shooting at me, and throw my meat shield at these fools. Nice, I aimed well, and knocked some of them! It gives me more time while my friends are rooms away!

 

The thing is that some people often do runs at a middle to low pace! Those guys want something else than go rambo & shoot everything in sight!

You could see these kind of comments before(and a little time after) melee 2.0 came out.

"How can you make melee as viable as guns? Why would I want melee to be improved, if the time I'd spend reaching a llancer is enough time to just aim & click!!?"

 

I got the answer : it's for the fun factor. Simple as that. Some people rush, some don't. Watch how the devs themselves play the game : you can play like Sonic if you want, but you're not forbid to go a little slower. You can go from point A to B, but you can also explore the rooms to find worth loot & hidden caches. D.E. said twice (at least) that they want "other playstyles" too!

 

Edit : Thanks man. :)

Edited December 3, 2014 by unknow99

[unknow99]

The only thing I could possibly add to this is that when you grab a foe while melee-ing, the gutpunch should be replaced with stabbing them with your weapon. :V

Suuuure! It'd just be for Furax or fist weapons...

 

Hand & feet...Hmmm..Why not giving them knees? :)

Edited December 3, 2014 by unknow99

[Edgedemon]

There is ZERO game modes where this idea would be useful. This concepts work in games that have fixed, compact combat mechanics with low amount of units, not enemies that swarm you, have auras, hit you with hooks etc etc

like Spy or sabotage or deception or rescue since 2.0 or most nightmare modes and overal solo.

 

Why do people try to over simplify the game, to play to the way and game modes they are used to play? this game is more than exterminate, defense and survival mindless slaughter.

[omegaskorpion]

[unknow99]

like Spy or sabotage or deception or rescue since 2.0 or most nightmare modes and overal solo.

 

Why do people try to over simplify the game, to play to the way and game modes they are used to play? this game is more than exterminate, defense and survival mindless slaughter.

I dislike demons, but you...I like you. :)

[DSpite]

You can't have good criticism without negative feedback(not surprised it came from you... :3 )

 

I see what you mean : catching someone might slow the gameplay if you have a rush mode in mind/want to farm as much stuff as possible in no time/just want to speedrun a planet node you haven't unlocked yet.

 

However, imagine yourself in a squishy frame. While you're waiting for your pals to get out of that survival mission near the co-op doors, enemies with high accuracy are shooting your low health character,and you ran out of ammo.... What it offers you would be :

Ruk it, I grab the nearest foe, protect myself with his body when gunshots are coming from everywhere, aim at the group shooting at me, and throw my meat shield at these fools. Nice, I aimed well, and knocked some of them! It gives me more time while my friends are rooms away!

 

The thing is that some people often do runs at a middle to low pace! Those guys want something else than go rambo & shoot everything in sight!

You could see these kind of comments before(and a little time after) melee 2.0 came out.

"How can you make melee as viable as guns? Why would I want melee to be improved, if the time I'd spend reaching a llancer is enough time to just aim & click!!?"

 

I got the answer : it's for the fun factor. Simple as that. Some people rush, some don't. Watch how the devs themselves play the game : you can play like Sonic if you want, but you're not forbid to go a little slower. You can go from point A to B, but you can also explore the rooms to find worth loot & hidden caches. D.E. said twice (at least) that they want "other playstyles" too!

 

Edit : Thanks man. :)

 

If DE seriously wants other "playstyles" they will have to work really hard on the missions, because I'm sorry, but they suck big time. The missions are extremely boring and repetitive, and way too predictable. Any player that spends a handful of hours in missions here has basically seen all the moves he needs for the entire game.

 

Don't get me wrong, the same problems are in Agent missions in EvE online, missions in Borderlands, PvE agent missions in Global Agenda, etc etc, MOST games do this. You usually just get a one liner from the mission agent, and then you are basically ticking boxes and getting the mission done, only ending in failure if someone turns off their brain or needs to run to the bathroom. Why do I still play it? Because it is STILL more entertaining then the other games I have.

 

So your ideas? Letting me grab people from ledges? Throw them?

 

There is an optimal way to do things, and then there is the TvTropes "scrub definition"

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scrub

 

I have Loki and Invisibility, I don't need "stealth" mechanics or weird melee rules. I can already channel a melee attack and vaporize targets without the needs to "strangle and carry to a bush" FarCry style, or attack from below and pull them off a ledge, especially when units in this game DO NOT currently give you the opportunity to carry that stuff out. I sure as hell DO NOT need to shield myself with an enemy's body when I can already block 20 people from shooting me by holding "block". I also don't need to throw one of their mates to knock them down when I can do that with Heavy Impact, or melees weapons with Slam attacks, or get Banshee to Sonic Boom everyone off their feet indefinitely in a 40 meter area. A team of 4 with silent weapons that can coordinate on Skype will clear a tile in seconds, just like a proper sniper team would do in real life. The things you want only work in a movie, and will STILL get boring here after the 50th time anyway.

 

Example 1 :

 

I don't need "Judo". I already have Super Powers that can do a much better job, and are also "more fun".

[Tyreuzs]

+1!! that would bring stealth to a completly new level

Edited December 3, 2014 by Tyreuzs

[rockscl]

 

There is an optimal way to do things, and then there is the TvTropes "scrub definition"

 

Funnily, you placed yourself as a StopHavingFunGuys and also your attitude easily matched the flame wars igniter profile

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuyshttp://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuys

[Edgedemon]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scrub

 

 

There is an optimal way to do things

 

do you realize that this line here means you are the scrub?

[Janzer]

Why do people always try to shoehorn useless mechanics in a game that is not DESIGNED to be played that way.

 

We spend most of our time hunting bosses for drops by racing through levels, we don't "stop and kill" individual units, this is also why an extensive stealth redo and "parkour" is pointless.

 

There is ZERO game modes where this idea would be useful. This concepts work in games that have fixed, compact combat mechanics with low amount of units, not enemies that swarm you, have auras, hit you with hooks etc etc.

 

While you are doing this crap, the team has wiped the tiles with Ults, and you are holding the last enemy in an empty room to throw at a wall.

 

EDIT: Love the artwork.

 

"Why do people always try to shoehorn useless mechanics in a game that is not DESIGNED to be played that way"

 

The some of the mechanics are somewhat already in the game.

 

"We spend most of our time hunting bosses for drops by racing through levels, we don't "stop and kill" individual units, this is also why an extensive stealth redo and "parkour" is pointless. There is ZERO game modes where this idea would be useful. This concepts work in games that have fixed, compact combat mechanics with low amount of units, not enemies that swarm you, have auras, hit you with hooks etc etc."

 

There is also solo mode, or games where people go melee only. I do it quite often, it's pretty fun and mixes things up.

 

"While you are doing this crap, the team has wiped the tiles with Ults, and you are holding the last enemy in an empty room to throw at a wall."

 

From what I've read a lot of your posts are needlessly beyond negative criticism to just plain insulting. Why do you feel you need to belittle other people's ideas?

 

If you want people to respect your opinion and idea of gameplay, maybe you shouldn't be so inflammatory with your wording. These players are just suggesting to build off of a game mechanic that DE has already put in the game.

[rockscl]

 

 

The some of the mechanics are somewhat already in the game.

 

 

 

I just put to build three glove weapons just out of envy about your german suplexes

[DSpite]

Ju

 

 

do you realize that this line here means you are the scrub?

 

 

No. Pretty sure you're wrong. No, actually you are wrong. It's not even up for discussion.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/quotes

 

Also the expression is "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" If you're going to put memes up of one of my favs movies you'd think you'd pick a picture closer to the correct wording.

 

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/342/270/bba.png

 

That's it done properly.

 

Optimal does not have to mean "the only way", it can mean "not in a stupid way". If I can radial Javelin, please for the love of god explain why I would go and grub a person by the neck. When I go shopping I bring a shopping list on my android phone, on it I have isle numbers, I don't go "optimal" and also plot a path through the damn supermarket, but at the same time, I don't want to waste time.

 

The game ALREADY WORKS FINE. But apparently most of you people's reading comprehension needs a tuneup.

 

Feel free to continue living in the lands of the fairies, read into things what you want to believe they really are, rather then the reality, and keep making threads like these. We don't need this idea anymore then we need cover mechanics. Take your blinkers off and maybe you will notice it too.

 

Maybe you can go use Judo on the new Corpus unit inside the power nullifying shield, you know, the guy with a sniper rifle, surrounded by other units. You do that, and I'll keep killing them by lobbing Penta nades from the other side of the tile, out of line of sight.

Edited December 4, 2014 by DSpite

[rockscl]

 

 

The game ALREADY WORKS FINE. But apparently most of you people's reading comprehension needs a tuneup.

 

Feel free to continue living in the lands of the fairies, read into things what you want to believe they really are, rather then the reality, and keep making threads like these. We don't need this idea anymore then we need cover mechanics. Take your blinkers off and maybe you will notice it too.

 

Maybe you can go use Judo on the new Corpus unit inside the power nullifying shield, you know, the guy with a sniper rifle, surrounded by other units. You do that, and I'll keep killing them by lobbing Penta nades from the other side of the tile, out of line of sight.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2014 by rockscl

[omegaskorpion]

 

The game ALREADY WORKS FINE. But apparently most of you people's reading comprehension needs a tuneup.

 

Feel free to continue living in the lands of the fairies, read into things what you want to believe they really are, rather then the reality, and keep making threads like these. We don't need this idea anymore then we need cover mechanics. Take your blinkers off and maybe you will notice it too.

 

Maybe you can go use Judo on the new Corpus unit inside the power nullifying shield, you know, the guy with a sniper rifle, surrounded by other units. You do that, and I'll keep killing them by lobbing Penta nades from the other side of the tile, out of line of sight.

 

Game works fine? realy? realy? 

 

Balance is broken, stealth is broken, game modes like nightmare and dark sectors are half-assed, abilities are unbalanced and overpowered, resource drop rates are broken, parkour is glitchy and not ready.

 

After hundred threats about all of those things you still say game works fine? Well yes, it works when you look at it from the outside, but when you look inside you can see content that is not finished.

 

 

Ideas like this create places to empty voids this game has, This certainly helps stealth.

 

If you like to play only survival, defence what do you need to care, even if this goes to game, what does that do to you?

 

This game is about variety... and then people come and say: "if it does not help in defence/survival its pointless" 

Not every fuking missions is defence/survival

 

I hate how people are liking the this farm gameplay to the point that they don't care about anything els.

 

Game needs fixing, it still does not mean that it would not need variety. Some people love power fantasy, some like stealth, some like parkour or f ast gameplay.

 

Don't complain that idea wont work if it wont work in all missions, NOTHING IN THIS GAME WORKS IN ALL MISSIONS (except weapons) 

[Calayne]

I think I understand the point DSpite is trying to make. Essentially, it's over-saturation of moves, and a lot of it seems unnecessary. If it doesn't contribute to the game because no one's going to use it, then why bother adding it at all? It's just going to be wasted space, wasted time, wasted effort for a whole lot of nothing.

 

So, that's the logic behind it, and I find it has strong merit. 

 

But I do think there is a point. Warframe wasn't always this mass-murdering game. It used to be slower, more deliberate, even for an action game being played at break-neck speeds. Those were the old days, in Update 7. 

 

Things changed, and the Tenno got more and more powerful, while the enemies remained relatively unchanged. They sometimes dealt more damage, and they were becoming more frustrating to deal with because at one point of time, DE kept adding enemies with knock-down and moves that took away player liberty. The Shield Lancers, Scorpions, and Hellions were one of those nigh-unavoidable enemies, especially at close range. At any rate, though, the enemies were just as weak as before, our guns getting stronger, our mods getting more powerful, so to compensate, we crank up the amount of enemies.

 

But the point I'm trying to make is this: 

 

The game style can change. It has before, it might again. Maybe as an alternative to the mass-murdering Survival, Defence, Interception and Excavation are. And if the game style changes, and each enemy becomes more brutal and spamming ults kills no one because they're so strong, you're going to need to use a different tactic.

 

If anything, the Rescue mission was such an example, where the Wardens are comparatively crazy strong with very specific weaknesses. Choking them out and using them as a meatbag would be a very good move, even if it's temporary, and you fling their helpless body across the room and into other goons.

 

And this points to the fact that your play style can change with mission type. It just has to be made properly. DSpite, you're discounting the fact that DE is actively trying to make missions that are fun, varied, challenging, and don't involve primarily slaughtering everything the moment they're seen, such as Rescue, and soon, Deception or Spy. 

 

Do I think that over-saturation of mechanics is bad? Certainly. Do I think we should draw the line here? We got rocket-packs in space and companion space dogs. Seriously, grabbing and throwing enemies isn't going to be a big thing. At best, it's melee supplemental material. I feel it's a natural progression for Parkour 2.0 and Melee 2.0, leading to the upcoming Deception 2.0, and maybe even Enemy 2.0.

 

Our game style has changed a lot. But I still feel that Warframe is completely imbalanced. I think that the day Warframe truly learns how to make a balanced, engaging gameplay, we won't need so many enemies because they're all so well designed. Either that, or they'll send out lots of tiny mobs for us to squish like ants, parading around our powers cause we need to feel omnipotent. But mechanics will only add to the depth of a game, if done properly. It won't diminish it. Archwing is an example of a mechanic that is completely out of whack with the core gameplay, but people still find time to enjoy it. 

 

How, then, will a core mechanic focused on improving gameplay for most of the game be a bad thing? It's thought out sufficiently well, and has potential.

 

Honestly. I miss feeling threatened. I got bored of Warframe a while back, cause there doesn't seem to be much else to do except kill things in great numbers. And it's either far too difficult if I gimp myself completely, or far too easy if I load up properly. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground here. But that's another topic for another day.

[unknow99]

I think I understand the point DSpite is trying to make. Essentially, it's over-saturation of moves, and a lot of it seems unnecessary. If it doesn't contribute to the game because no one's going to use it, then why bother adding it at all? It's just going to be wasted space, wasted time, wasted effort for a whole lot of nothing.

 

So, that's the logic behind it, and I find it has strong merit. 

 

But I do think there is a point. Warframe wasn't always this mass-murdering game. It used to be slower, more deliberate, even for an action game being played at break-neck speeds. Those were the old days, in Update 7. 

 

Things changed, and the Tenno got more and more powerful, while the enemies remained relatively unchanged. They sometimes dealt more damage, and they were becoming more frustrating to deal with because at one point of time, DE kept adding enemies with knock-down and moves that took away player liberty. The Shield Lancers, Scorpions, and Hellions were one of those nigh-unavoidable enemies, especially at close range. At any rate, though, the enemies were just as weak as before, our guns getting stronger, our mods getting more powerful, so to compensate, we crank up the amount of enemies.

 

But the point I'm trying to make is this: 

 

The game style can change. It has before, it might again. Maybe as an alternative to the mass-murdering Survival, Defence, Interception and Excavation are. And if the game style changes, and each enemy becomes more brutal and spamming ults kills no one because they're so strong, you're going to need to use a different tactic.

 

If anything, the Rescue mission was such an example, where the Wardens are comparatively crazy strong with very specific weaknesses. Choking them out and using them as a meatbag would be a very good move, even if it's temporary, and you fling their helpless body across the room and into other goons.

 

And this points to the fact that your play style can change with mission type. It just has to be made properly. DSpite, you're discounting the fact that DE is actively trying to make missions that are fun, varied, challenging, and don't involve primarily slaughtering everything the moment they're seen, such as Rescue, and soon, Deception or Spy. 

 

Do I think that over-saturation of mechanics is bad? Certainly. Do I think we should draw the line here? We got rocket-packs in space and companion space dogs. Seriously, grabbing and throwing enemies isn't going to be a big thing. At best, it's melee supplemental material. I feel it's a natural progression for Parkour 2.0 and Melee 2.0, leading to the upcoming Deception 2.0, and maybe even Enemy 2.0.

 

Our game style has changed a lot. But I still feel that Warframe is completely imbalanced. I think that the day Warframe truly learns how to make a balanced, engaging gameplay, we won't need so many enemies because they're all so well designed. Either that, or they'll send out lots of tiny mobs for us to squish like ants, parading around our powers cause we need to feel omnipotent. But mechanics will only add to the depth of a game, if done properly. It won't diminish it. Archwing is an example of a mechanic that is completely out of whack with the core gameplay, but people still find time to enjoy it. 

 

How, then, will a core mechanic focused on improving gameplay for most of the game be a bad thing? It's thought out sufficiently well, and has potential.

 

Honestly. I miss feeling threatened. I got bored of Warframe a while back, cause there doesn't seem to be much else to do except kill things in great numbers. And it's either far too difficult if I gimp myself completely, or far too easy if I load up properly. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground here. But that's another topic for another day.

I was gonna add something but...He just said everything.

 

I also realized how much the focus has been put into dealing with waves & waves of enemies loot sources. No one redo sabotage missions, the region chat is full of people requesting defense/mobile defense/survival keys(I don't hate these missions,I'm just saying : "there is something else to do too!". The Vivergate! Don't you all remember? Another loot cave! Mesa...Countless runs to get her parts...Survival alerts, and so on...

Just assassinations to get frame parts, defense/survival/excavation for loot/new tenno reinforcement,etc..

 

The solar system gets emptier, void/Derelict is full of players farming valuable prime parts...

While manyyyy, manyy stuff are just being ignored. Rescue 2.0 was the spark for the non-endless missions revamp. Spy 2.0 is coming soon, I hope that Raid II comes back in some way,Deception could also benefit from a remix.

 

Warframe won't stop being called "Grindframe" or "Warfarm" if alternate gameplay isn't as encouraged as mass murdering to get new stuff,then waiting for the next new stuff,then mass murdering to get new stuff,then mass...

Edited December 6, 2014 by unknow99

[Calayne]

I was gonna add something but...He just said everything.

 

I also realized how much the focus has been put into dealing with waves & waves of enemies loot sources. No one redo sabotage missions, the region chat is full of people requesting defense/mobile defense/survival keys(I don't hate these missions,I'm just saying : "there is something else to do too!". The Vivergate! Don't you all remember? Another loot cave! Mesa...Countless runs to get her parts...Survival alerts, and so on...

Just assasinations to get frame parts, defense/survival/excavation for loot/new tenno reinforcement,etc..

 

The solar system gets emptier, void/Derelict is full of players farming valuable prime parts...

While manyyyy, manyy stuff are just being ignored. Rescue 2.0 was the spark for the non-endless missions revamp. Spy 2.0 is coming soon, I hope that Raid II comes back in some way,Deception could also benefit from a remix.

 

Warframe won't stop being called "Grindframe" or "Warfarm" if alternate gameplay isn't as encouraged as mass murdering to get new stuff,then waiting for the next new stuff,then mass murdering to get new stuff,then mass...

 

The way I see it, the more missions become fun and sufficiently challenging, the more you can distribute the rewards across the solar system, to make each planet even more unique, in addition to their tile sets.

 

Difficulty has always been one thing that DE struggles with, I think, and for good reason. Everything we have now is very hard to balance, and each addition adds another complexity to the mix. Not to mention, across the solar system, there are many missions which are repeated, or at least, that's what I last remember. I think the ideal is that even if there are, say, two interception missions and two survival missions on the same planet, you need a different tile set for each, to make them distinguished. And each tile needs something unique, beyond a cosmetic change.

 

Some examples may be like on Earth, the Grineer should have larger patrols than other planets because they're so decentralised. On Saturn, there'll be less patrols, and they'll be smaller, but that place being strategically critical, they'll have fortresses dispersed here and there, where huge concentrations of Grineer are located, with stationary base defences against the Tenno. And you can use those base defences against the Grineer, too. 

 

Once this has been achieved, the added core mechanics will add depth to the variety, because each mission has a purpose, and each has a challenge, and to approach that challenge, you are introduced to more mechanics. I can see Throws and Grabs being used in Spy or Deception, and ideally, Exterminate, where the enemies are more buffed (Don't even get me started on how much work this game mode needs). 

 

This can easily be approached because context-sensitive actions still have a lot of room available, and we're basically only using the numerals on our keyboard, the crouch button, jump button, melee button and mouse buttons. Not really that many. As for "Overwhelming" the player, this can be introduced mission-by-mission, and can be reintroduced or re-familiarised via training in the Codex. 

 

There's still a lot of room for improvement. Warframe has a long, long way to go, since I consider the balance more broken than a mangled corpse hit by a truck and Stomped on by Rhino.

[Edgedemon]

Also the expression is "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" If you're going to put memes up of one of my favs movies you'd think you'd pick a picture closer to the correct wording.

That's a Meme i did not make, second i'm not a particular fan of "Princess Bride" is an interesting movie but no more than that for me, third even if its not the exact quote, it does contain the message.

 

quoting from "Scrub" link:

 

"adamantly believes that his or her 'house rules' should apply to everyone to promote his or her view of 'fair play'." 

 

sounds awfully like you!!!

 

you are stuck on the idea we should all spend our days rushing bosses pressing 4 to win because that is the only way to play.

 

Optimal does not have to mean "the only way", it can mean "not in a stupid way".

no, optimal is not the same as effective which may mean "not stupid", optimal means the most effective, is superlative, but "effective" its tied to objectives, which for you mean finishing quick and for most other people who play non-competitive games means have fun. 

 

But apparently most of you people's reading comprehension needs a tuneup.

hard to tell if this is accurate considering you just added a new meaning to make a word fit your needs.

 

lastly this is a "feedback" forum, where people give ideas and suggestions some of which the team has already adopted, not to mention the suggestion would not affect your ability to press 4 to win if that is what you are scared about.

[ENIAK_Prime]

no, optimal is not the same as effective which may mean "not stupid", optimal means the most effective, is superlative, but "effective" its tied to objectives, which for you mean finishing quick and for most other people who play non-competitive games means have fun. 

Not a fan of Princess Bride? WHY?

Anyway, implying that people who like to rush through the game aren't having fun is a bad way to make a point.

I mean, I'm with you. The devs should in no way focus on pleasing the rushers at all. Doing so is only going to push Warframe further and further away from the incredible potential it's promising. It would be absolutely lovely for them to all sit down, and crunch out some hard work on adding stuff like this new grab mechanic and tailoring the parkour system so that it isn't immediately overshadowed by copters and airslashes, and fixing stealth in the numerous ways it needs fixing.

But at the same time you can't say that these things are more fun. They add more depth, but (unfortunately) there are people who enjoy rushing things the simple and easy way, even if it means the game evolves into a grindfest (because it's simply rewarding them for doing MORE of what they love).

Edited December 4, 2014 by Soldatto

[kyuubi11001]

sounds cool, but to getting it balanced, the player should only be able to grab his opponent, if it is staggerd[by status-chance] or unaware of the players presence.