DarkLordX2 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Why do shotgun's damage falls over distance in first place? I am a MR 17 player and i still ask this myself, Warframe is the only game where shotguns have damage falloff... Isn't the spread bad enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bejuizb Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Because there used to be the time when this itty bitty little gun called the Hek was the ultimate weapon in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazeth Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 It started off b/c people were able to snipe with the Hek at 40-50m back then (U8 I think?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelshark Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 "balance". However now shotguns need some love and a nice buff and removal of dmg falloff would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeannachaidh Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Hek was a problem, yes, but also because of realism? The pellets that come out of a shot gun have higher air resistance than other projectiles, which causes them to slow down and be less effective at range. The shells I use to duck hunt are only effective at 30-40 yards tops. Edited December 2, 2014 by TheSeannachaidh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKhaun Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) If you only use spread you lose all your other factors. You can't make shotguns with crazy patterns because spread is needed for balance. You can't make shotguns with crazy behaviors because spread is needed for balance. You can't make shotguns that are accurate for use up close because they would be OP at long range without fall off. I guess in the end you need to decide about fall off on a case-by-case basis, but with Tainted Spread in play, I think everything we have now is a good candidate for fall off. Edited December 2, 2014 by VKhaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY13ERPUNK Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 back in the day the hek was arguably the best primary in the game and with a tight spread and no dmg falloff, it made all other primaries obsolete but in the current modern era of power creep, DE really needs to undo to shotty dmg falloff and just let shotguns be balanced by pellet spread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) It's not the only game with damage falloff lol And can you imagine if it wasn't a thing? Seriously? You'd clear rooms from a mile away. It would render EVERY OTHER WEAPON absolutely obsolete. Edited December 2, 2014 by AdunSaveMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrkong Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Why do shotgun's damage falls over distance in first place? I am a MR 17 player and i still ask this myself, Warframe is the only game where shotguns have damage falloff... Isn't the spread bad enough? Because King Hek used to be the lord of all guns waaay back in the old days (U6-7) and people used to snipe with it and then DE came along and said NOPE! That's not going to fly. For a friendly comparison, Hek was the Boltor Prime of preU6/7. Edited December 2, 2014 by jrkong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysus41 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 believe it or not, it was actually a lot worse back when it was first implemented. shotgun falloff is a solution to a problem that really no longer exists. it was to curb the power of the Hek because back then Hek was king, but they did it to all the shotguns because reasons. Now there are other weapons that are more powerful than the Hek ever was and they are apparently just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Hek was a problem, yes, but also because of realism? The pellets that come out of a shot gun have higher air resistance than other projectiles, which causes them to slow down and be less effective at range. The shells I use to duck hunt are only effective at 30-40 yards tops. We are not hunting Grineer with birdshot. But we might as well be in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKhaun Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) believe it or not, it was actually a lot worse back when it was first implemented. shotgun falloff is a solution to a problem that really no longer exists. it was to curb the power of the Hek because back then Hek was king, but they did it to all the shotguns because reasons. Now there are other weapons that are more powerful than the Hek ever was and they are apparently just fine. That's not really the whole story though. What happens when we make a good shotgun for CQC that is a good spread shape/consistancy for close range headshots? Is that now going to be a sniper rifle because we made a shotgun that's not a huge spread? What happens when we get a shotgun that always fires in some pattern, is that now a sniper rifle because we know where certain pellets are going each time we fire? Is a new shotgun now the ultimate shotgun because it's spread stays the same size over distance rather than being a cone? Fall off means the devs don't have to make every shotgun fire identical medium cone-spread shells. They can do whatever they want and shotguns stay shotguns. I just wish they'd hurry up and give us some cool/interesting shotguns, because so far we just have boomsticks and "meh" shotguns with small mags and bad spread. Phage doesn't count. Sobek is the only interesting one we have IMO. Edited December 2, 2014 by VKhaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRgisIocus Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Shotties are fine. Boar Prime, Strun Wraith, Drakgoon, Hek with the Augment and Phage are all very late game viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordX2 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Well, the thing is that right now, many weapons can out DPS the Hek, and none of them have damage falloff, kinda unfair to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordX2 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Shotties are fine. Boar Prime, Strun Wraith, Drakgoon, Hek with the Augment and Phage are all very late game viable. Phage doesn´t have damage falloff nor Drakgoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satwo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 The Hek was the start. The Brakk proved the sniping argument. it didnt matter what shotty you were using, once you hit the particular limit, you dust an entire army with one shot without falloff with even the slightest addition of pierce. element 2.0 came out and piercing mods no longer functioned the same. they still havent looked back. its becoming a more and more arguable topic, but with weapons like dex furis, akfuris, twin vipers, grakatta, etc., perhaps its about time its actually considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysus41 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Shotties are fine. Boar Prime, Strun Wraith, Drakgoon, Hek with the Augment and Phage are all very late game viable. Boar Prime is a status weapon, one that can get over 100% status chance, and that doesn't falloff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutzdes Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Phage doesn´t have damage falloff nor Drakgoon. These have completely different mechanics. One has charge-up and slow arcing projectiles. The other is continuous fire weapon with a wind-up accuracy. Not like your regular shotties in this kind of matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRgisIocus Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Boar Prime can go to 90% status chance while still getting over sustained 10k dps. Strun Wraith can get around 80% status while still maintaining over 10k sustained dps as well. Phage is Phage (what I mean by this is that's its a monster. Mine has over 16k sustained dps with 50% status chance). Hek with the augment can also go over 10k sustained dps with 70% status chance + the Justice effect. Drakgoon is the only one without an insane status chance and just barely scratching 10k sustained dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowExistence Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Why do shotgun's damage falls over distance in first place? I am a MR 17 player and i still ask this myself, Warframe is the only game where shotguns have damage falloff... Isn't the spread bad enough? Because of the Hek and forum whiners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddle78 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Realistically? Because a shotgun's payload,a cloud of small balls,is a little bit on the "air resistant" side. On top of the non-ideal aerodynamic shape of the projectiles,they create a vortex wake,which drags them back even more,while interacting with most of the other projectiles. All of this stacks up to some serious deceleration and loss of energy. Orders of magnitude more than a single or stream of single bullets. However,thanks to this payload,shotguns,loaded with shot,anyways,generally inflict significantly more trauma to the target than single-projectile weapons,should all of the projectiles hit. In the game,this is simulated by damage falloff,and a spread. More likely,however,balance. In case you haven't noticed,shotguns deal absolutely vicious damage,should all the projectiles hit. If the projectiles all dealt full damage at any range,imagine what you could do with the Hek or Sobek,the two shotguns with the tightest spread. And,last I checked,zoom and recoil mods tighten it. It should be noted: The Sobek fires four slugs,and has a pretty sweet rate of fire. Imagine that thing,without damage falloff. Full-auto,high-impact sniper. And it has a sick proc chance per pellet,too. In order to maintain weapon balance and category nice identity,they force players to use shotguns at very short range. In short: Shotguns,even in the real world,are close range weapons. DE simply wants you to use the shotguns at that range,and use other weapons if you wish to fight at a longer range. However,there are five shotguns that lack damage falloff. The entire Bronco series of handguns,as well as the Detron. However,I'd love for DE to make a special shotgun mod: -Multishot,+Damage,-Damage Falloff. Gimme my slugs,dammit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJxt Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Why do shotgun's damage falls over distance in first place? I am a MR 17 player and i still ask this myself, Warframe is the only game where shotguns have damage falloff... Isn't the spread bad enough? What? Shotguns in nearly every shooting game has falloff damage and spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloan441 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Because pellets are an inefficient ballistic shape and lose energy like crazy over range. As for the game: reasons. Mostly to do with balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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DarkLordX2
Why do shotgun's damage falls over distance in first place? I am a MR 17 player and i still ask this myself, Warframe is the only game where shotguns have damage falloff...
Isn't the spread bad enough?
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