I Believe It's As Good Of A Time As Any To Ask For Gameplay Design 2.0

[Aspari]

Let me be frank here for a bit: I acknowledge that all of you at DE have put a tremendous amount of quality work into Warframe and I appreciate you all a lot. You've given me a game that I keep coming back to for hours at a time. However, I need to point out that the biggest reason your game does get stale is the way the gameplay is designed. The community has already brought up a lot of these issues, and the ones that I do know of will be listed below (I didn't make any of these up myself.):

 

- Lack of end-game

 

- RNG-based progression (mod related)

 

- New Warframes and weapons are increasingly harder to obtain without shelling out platinum

 

- Coptering and directional melee making parkour nuncupatory.

 

- Overly simplistic parkour mechanics and missing essential parkour functions

 

- Stealth is a mechanic that game modes have no design accommodations for.

 

- Stealth itself isn't fully designed or polished

 

- Repetitive gameplay.

 

- "Press 4 to win" ultimates

 

- Gimmicky Warframe design.

 

- Gameplay is only designed around one tactic which is running/ defending and gunning, removing the Ninja from Space Ninja.

 

- Mods are extremely imbalanced or badly designed and a lot of them are relics from Damage 1.0.

 

- Equipment only scales with mods.

 

 

 

Below are some of my concerns that I have that I feel haven't been articulated well enough or have not been addressed with any of the updates since update 12:

 

- Gameplay is far too simplistic. Game modes feel like nothing but MMO Instances, only much more linear and lack variety.

 

- Map design does not accommodate for more complex gameplay

 

- Gameplay lacks intrinsic value.

 

- Other mechanics that fit the theme of Warframe and Ninja are not present, most of which wouldn't work due to map and mission design. (Climbing, throwing, other contextual actions.)

 

- Some aspects of the game are simply not visually impressive. Graphics have nothing to do with this one. It's all animation. (Yes, this one does seem shallow. However, it's more important than some people care to admit.)

 

- Player interaction with the environment and with NPCs is too limited.

 

 

 

If I missed any other concerns, be sure to comment on them.

 

 

I'll explain some of the concerns that I have:

 

1. Gameplay is far too simplistic. Game modes feel like nothing but MMO Instances, only much more linear and lack variety. Map design does not accommodate for more complex gameplay.

 

I grew up on a lot of games and I've studied mission design extensively on multiplayer games. What I've found in Warframe are barebones mission designs, like Exterminate which is kill everything and Survival which is kill everything while staying alive. Although I think every mission in Warframe is the same, except for Vor's Prize missions and Mastery Tests, some missions are pretty much carbon copies of each other.

 

Quality mission design has come from DE's previous games such as Dark Sector, Bioshock 2, Homefront, and parts of The Darkness 2. While The Darkness 2 and Dark Sector were linear, the gameplay's pacing and level design allowed for a lot of variety. A lot of cool stuff happened in between the fighting as well (that's another topic that's not actually gameplay, but is relative to gameplay.)

 

I can think of a really good game mode off the top of my head that could work really well in Warframe, and that's the Crossroads game mode in Dead Island: Epidemic. In that game mode, four players have to stick together and complete a series of (planned to be) randomized objectives in various parts of the large map while their secondary objective is to collect as many Supplies as possible to increase their loot gain. A similar game mode in Warframe would be excellent because it can:

 

1. Provide earned loot rather than -only- randomly generated loot.

 

2. Incorporate more lore into the gameplay

 

3. Mixes everything up and keeps players on their toes so that they aren't bored, also effectively making grinding less painful.

 

A second game mode that I think could work well in Warframe is the way Anarchy Reigns is designed with most of the campaign's levels. In Anarchy Reigns, the player must cause enough havoc and gain points to unlock the next mission up until they reach a boss. All of the missions use the same map and require different tactics and use of mechanics to overcome, and completing these missions under certain conditions will yield higher rewards. A similar game mode in Warframe would be excellent because it can:

 

1. Provide earned loot rather than -only- randomly generated loot.

 

2. Incorporate more lore into the gameplay

 

3. Mixes everything up and keeps players on their toes so that they aren't bored, also effectively making grinding less painful.

 

4. Allows players to explore more mechanics and interact more with NPCs and the environment.

 

Please keep in mind that these won't work very well without other changes in movement, NPC interaction (stealth is included), environment interaction, and level design.

 

 

 

2. Gameplay lacks intrinsic value.

 

See:

 

Or if you can't see it

 

Now before you comment on this one, I know that we're fighting for the balance of the galaxy. (Or are we?) It's not really even clear what we're fighting for because sometimes we're treated like mercenaries and other times we're treated like sacred duty-bound super-important beings that are here to perform for a higher cause than rewards.

 

Of course, we're here to kill some Grineer. They're the biggest evil in the Origin System. However, in regards to everything else we do, we're all over the place and a lot of our actions don't make total sense. This is also relative to actual gameplay.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, I'm not saying that this game isn't a good game. It is a good game. It's squeezed more hours out of me than any game ever made. I enjoy it a lot still. However, because I love the game so much, I have to share what I feel will improve the game, draw in more players, and keep existing players from getting burnt out. Yes, I do know that this game in a long-term beta. This is why it's a perfect opportunity to expand, re-evaluate, repurpose, and revamp.

 

[AsuraKyu]

I Agree and very well worded.

 

+1

[Kestral9999]

 

- Coptering and directional melee making parkour nuncupatory.

Not to be an &#!, but you might have used noncupatory incorrectly there.

 

 

[Orbister]

Well, i think that Warframe is a great collection of initial concepts but none was developed deeply, i keep playing and hoping DE decides to choose one and develop it further, most additions seem to be like the base for interesting complex system, but they usually stay like that, like bases.

 

For example Kubrows, even though i don't use them i think they could have a commands system, and more customizacion options.

 

I remember after the "scrambler's incident" during one devstream Sheldon was like "dude you won't believe how cool the new customization is! i can make the weirdest Kubrows now" then when the "deep customization system" was released it contained 2 patterns and 6 colors... now we have those "festive" patterns and colors but i'm not even counting them since festive stuff is supposed to be a bonus, but even if i count them the "deep customization system" has 4 patterns and 12 colors...

Edited December 3, 2014 by Orbister

[Phyrosite]

1. Parkour will be looked at early 2015

2. Stealth is going to be looked at, especially with the upcoming Spy 2.0 missions.

[Kestral9999]

1. Parkour will be looked at early 2015

2. Stealth is going to be looked at, especially with the upcoming Spy 2.0 missions.

I... please post links for both... I need them.

[Octoknightx]

I... please post links for both... I need them.

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-42-overview

Skip to bottom and it says parkour 2.0 will be worked on next year.

 

For stealth, the only thing we have is the devstream with Rebecca playing Spy 2.0.

https://warframe.com/news/devstream-41-overview

[grillv20]

The huge problem with warframe for me is the direction of everything. There are so many weapons in the game and you gain mastery rank for leveling each and every thing that there is. There are items that are mastery locked but to what end? It never really means that the item is in fact BETTER but it does mean that you're locked out of it unless you're that rank. Literally nothing added in this last year has added to the game in terms of how you play it to top it all off. Its just been caked over with RNG and a new crappy cluttered console UI. 

[Insidiatorii]

Here's a big one that should be in there: BALANCE between Warframes, and BALANC between weapons!

[McVolker]

Well, i think that Warframe is a great collection of initial concepts but none was developed deeply, i keep playing and hoping DE decides to choose one and develop it further, most additions seem to be like the base for interesting complex system, but they usually stay like that, like bases.

 

This is what I have felt since the game started to get big. They do amazing with concepting ideas and laying out how they should work, but they just seem to be continually experimenting with one-hit wonder ideas that won't individually last long, but add together to prolong the game's life and keep it at a stagnant population. Good stuff, but too much of it is spreading the game thin. Building upon the better ideas to make them sustainable would do well for the game.

[Kestral9999]

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-42-overview

Skip to bottom and it says parkour 2.0 will be worked on next year.

 

For stealth, the only thing we have is the devstream with Rebecca playing Spy 2.0.

https://warframe.com/news/devstream-41-overview

Sweeeeeet.

 

Can't even express how excited that makes me. They're revamping one of the glaring weaknesses in this game and improving one of the WORST game modes. 

 

Also, I need to start watching Devstreams again. My responsibilities at work be damned.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Kestral9999

[Dokusi]

This post is so thought out. I appreciate when players give positive criticism instead of raging.

I agree with OP and wish the best for warframe. The games growing so I'm hopeful

[-FV-Wsocks]

I agree with very much of this. I've yet to see an event or tactical alert that doesn't reward you for going gunzblazing into every room and coptering to the next objective as quickly as possible. The lore is provided in small quantities by about 5% of the screen in the form of animated text boxes. 

[NeoTachyon]

While i agree with some of your points , especially with the one about simplistic missions , i also disagree with some.

- Lack of end-game

Define what you call an  end-game , the term by itself is quite abstract.

 

- RNG-based progression (mod related)

Not necessary something , unless it's taked to the extreme ,which admittedly happens in various occasions on warframe (stances).

 

- New Warframes and weapons are increasingly harder to obtain without shelling out platinum

 

I can give you the warframe one , if we are talking about hydroid , mesa. Now for weapons , the only one i can think of that fits this category are the Despair.

Now primes are a whole different story , admittedly they are huge mess.

 

- Overly simplistic parkour mechanics and missing essential parkour functions

True , however it's gonna be looked early 2015 according to the devs.

 

- Stealth is a mechanic that game modes have no design accommodations for.

It's being addressed somewhat with spy 2.0.

 

- Stealth itself isn't fully designed or polished.

True but it's something that's being worked on, albeit very slowly.

 

- Repetitive gameplay.

Holy S#&$ , pretty much every game after 100+ hours.

 

- Gimmicky Warframe design.

So because something doesn't see widespread usage or it's a bit  specialized in gameplay , it's automatically useless ?

 

- "Press 4 to win" ultimates

Whenever it's gonna be that or not it's for the player to decide (which is the beauty of warframe) , however most of those "nukes" hit a rough wall eventually. 

 

- Gameplay is only designed around one tactic which is running/ defending and gunning, removing the Ninja from Space Ninja.

 

How exactly is run and gun a bad thing ?

As for the ninja part , maybe the decided to steer away from it (as the main theme) during development , since as a concept it would require very specialized gameplay.

 

- Mods are extremely imbalanced or badly designed and a lot of them are relics from Damage 1.0.

Yes and no.While i agree to some extend , i don't think the picture is as blank as you paint it.

 

- Equipment only scales with mods.

Please explain why this is negative.

 

- Gameplay is far too simplistic. Game modes feel like nothing but MMO Instances, only much more linear and lack variety.

There is nothing wrong with simplistic game modes beauty can be found even in the simplest stuff.That also doesn't mean that more complex game modes shouldn't exist either , on the contrary they would be a welcomed  addition in warfame.

 

- Map design does not accommodate for more complex gameplay.

Again the term "complex gameplay" is too abstract.

 

- Other mechanics that fit the theme of Warframe and Ninja are not present, most of which wouldn't work due to map and mission design. (Climbing, throwing, other contextual actions.)

"Theme of Warframe" i don't think warframe has definitive theme.

[vaugahn]

2. Gameplay lacks intrinsic value.

 

This is where I'm going to have to disagree.

 

Right now gameplay is the main thing Warframe has going for it. It's fun to just play. That's why people play it! Everything else you listed is correct, but not this one.

 

Edit: the whole "not ninja enough" thing is slightly ridiculous as well, but that's harder to talk about

Edited December 4, 2014 by vaugahn

[Vadrigos]

They also need to rebalance rewards in some places, maybe add some way of scaling certain rewards based on mastery. For example, the 10000 credits from an infested invasion might be great for a newbie, but for a veteran like me who's played over 1300 hours, it's small fry. I have almost five million, and I actually did have five million until recently (I tend to spend a lot with big updates). To me, 10000 is a drop in the barrel. And the clan-tech component rewards are good for newbies too, but alas, I've pretty much leveled up all the clan stuff I want (this also ties in with the resource creep we veterans have, the whole 2 million nano spores and 5 million alloy plate, etc). I think they should scale the rewards, or at least make it so if the game detects you're part of a clan, it offers alternative rewards. 

 

Also, another couple of under-developed ideas: Specters and Resource Harvesters. Specters could do with some AI improvement, like the ability to parkour properly, maybe some advanced manuvering, etc. This could also play into making the Stalker more challenging, since right now he seems to be the least threatening of the Assassins. Zanuka is faster and the Grustag have numbers and teamwork. Stalker's all alone. 

 

Resource harvesters need to have their rewards scale with rank. And they need to NOT give veterans common rewards. Uncommon resources are fine, so long as they're in relatively large quantities, but the amount of common resources, or even CLAN resources these things give out is not helping their case, when in about 5 missions we could get what they're giving us after 4 hours of supposed scavenging...

[Aspari]

While i agree with some of your points , especially with the one about simplistic missions , i also disagree with some.

The ones that I didn't come up with will not be explained by me. They're merely mentioned, not addressed. For those, you have to find the threads that talk about them.

[Aspari]

This is where I'm going to have to disagree.

 

Right now gameplay is the main thing Warframe has going for it. It's fun to just play. That's why people play it! Everything else you listed is correct, but not this one.

 

Edit: the whole "not ninja enough" thing is slightly ridiculous as well, but that's harder to talk about

Warframe is fun to play. That's why I still play it. However, when I say lack I mean deficient. It's there, but there's not a lot of it. What it lacks is lore and player actions being justified. Initially when I started playing Warframe I only played it for fun. Then I was introduced to a world were Pokemon came in the form of weapons, and essentially you gotta catch 'em all. Right now, that's all that we have aside from standard gameplay and Vor's Prize.

[(PSN)madguy132]

This is where I'm going to have to disagree.

 

Right now gameplay is the main thing Warframe has going for it. It's fun to just play. That's why people play it! Everything else you listed is correct, but not this one.

 

Edit: the whole "not ninja enough" thing is slightly ridiculous as well, but that's harder to talk about

It's not fun to just play, I'm sorry but I'm in a moon clan and all of my members would disagree with you. This is everyone's expression with new events/patches: "Great, more grinds."

[vaugahn]

Warframe is fun to play. That's why I still play it. However, when I say lack I mean deficient. It's there, but there's not a lot of it. What it lacks is lore and player actions being justified. Initially when I started playing Warframe I only played it for fun. Then I was introduced to a world were Pokemon came in the form of weapons, and essentially you gotta catch 'em all. Right now, that's all that we have aside from standard gameplay and Vor's Prize.

 

Ah. Well, I can get behind that. There's nothing wrong with a gear-driven game necessarily, but the gear drive does need to be framed with some story. Vor's Prize was a good start, and Once Awake wasn't bad either.

 

I think the best thing to do for that would be a Once Awake-style quest for the Grineer and the Corpus that explains why we're murdering them. Once Awake did a decent job of setting up the infested, so having one of those for each faction would round it out nicely. Quests linked to planets would also be nice, as that would give a reason to progress along the star chart and alleviate some of the "what do I do now" that new players get confronted with. I'd go as far as to say that you shouldn't be able to access the Void until you complete the star chart, with the quest giving access to the void becoming available on the final planet.

 

Anyways, I don't think it's accurate in that case to say the gameplay is intrinsically lacking, as that's more a lore/world building issue.

[Innocent_Flower]

Don't ask for stealth. 

 

Improvements to the way enemies detect players and communicate to each-other? Sure. Might even help team-work if you wanna do some Army of two type thing.

 

Having it thrust upon you like a rifle and getting told to navigate it's no-man's land? No thanks. The most I'd like to see from stealth is that you can sneak past a super-tough enemy so that you don't need to expend a lot of ammo, or that you can use it as an alternative to alarm-powered-forced-runs to an objective. No special stealth rewards or stealth-only sections, please. 

[DSpite]

I'm starting to think it's time for Playerbase v2.0.

Perhaps one that rolls back to Complaining v0.5 beta.

 

"Again, I'm not saying that this game isn't a good game. It is a good game. It's squeezed more hours out of me than any game ever made. I enjoy it a lot still. However, because I love the game so much, I have to share what I feel will improve the game, draw in more players, and keep existing players from getting burnt out. Yes, I do know that this game in a long-term beta. This is why it's a perfect opportunity to expand, re-evaluate, repurpose, and revamp."

 

I agree with this, and generally the whole post in spirit, but go play Borderlands. Go play Global Agenda. Heck, go play Destiny.

 

They ALL do this. None of them are really designed to support more then say, a max 100 hours of game play, REGARDLESS of how you try and squeeze it out. After the "main play time" it comes down to "just how much do you just enjoy pulling a trigger?"

 

Other then dynamic missions, or heavily scripted stuff, this is not getting "fixed" any time soon. We were supposed to play a while and move on, not hang around this long. It was never designed that way, DE even admitted to this in a Dev stream. They are trying to add new stuff, but I don't think they are going to gut the foundation mechanics of the game to turn into into an MMO.

 

Warframe still remains the only game in my Steam list that I come back to because at least, every so often, I get new surprises. Nothing to write home about maybe, but better then logging in to every other game, and find it EXACTLY the same.

 

It's a 2 year old frigging game, it's just a baby. Lower your expectations. EvE Online is 10+ years old, and it only started implementing big changes recently, like no costs for new clones and infinite skill queues.

[TheDoctah]

Let me be frank here for a bit: I acknowledge that all of you at DE have put a tremendous amount of quality work into Warframe and I appreciate you all a lot. You've given me a game that I keep coming back to for hours at a time. However, I need to point out that the biggest reason your game does get stale is the way the gameplay is designed. The community has already brought up a lot of these issues, and the ones that I do know of will be listed below (I didn't make any of these up myself.):

 

- Lack of end-game

 

- RNG-based progression (mod related)

 

- New Warframes and weapons are increasingly harder to obtain without shelling out platinum

 

- Coptering and directional melee making parkour nuncupatory.

 

- Overly simplistic parkour mechanics and missing essential parkour functions

 

- Stealth is a mechanic that game modes have no design accommodations for.

 

- Stealth itself isn't fully designed or polished

 

- Repetitive gameplay.

 

- "Press 4 to win" ultimates

 

- Gimmicky Warframe design.

 

- Gameplay is only designed around one tactic which is running/ defending and gunning, removing the Ninja from Space Ninja.

 

- Mods are extremely imbalanced or badly designed and a lot of them are relics from Damage 1.0.

 

- Equipment only scales with mods.

 

 

 

Below are some of my concerns that I have that I feel haven't been articulated well enough or have not been addressed with any of the updates since update 12:

 

- Gameplay is far too simplistic. Game modes feel like nothing but MMO Instances, only much more linear and lack variety.

 

- Map design does not accommodate for more complex gameplay

 

- Gameplay lacks intrinsic value.

 

- Other mechanics that fit the theme of Warframe and Ninja are not present, most of which wouldn't work due to map and mission design. (Climbing, throwing, other contextual actions.)

 

- Some aspects of the game are simply not visually impressive. Graphics have nothing to do with this one. It's all animation. (Yes, this one does seem shallow. However, it's more important than some people care to admit.)

 

- Player interaction with the environment and with NPCs is too limited.

 

 

 

If I missed any other concerns, be sure to comment on them.

 

 

I'll explain some of the concerns that I have:

 

1. Gameplay is far too simplistic. Game modes feel like nothing but MMO Instances, only much more linear and lack variety. Map design does not accommodate for more complex gameplay.

 

I grew up on a lot of games and I've studied mission design extensively on multiplayer games. What I've found in Warframe are barebones mission designs, like Exterminate which is kill everything and Survival which is kill everything while staying alive. Although I think every mission in Warframe is the same, except for Vor's Prize missions and Mastery Tests, some missions are pretty much carbon copies of each other.

 

Quality mission design has come from DE's previous games such as Dark Sector, Bioshock 2, Homefront, and parts of The Darkness 2. While The Darkness 2 and Dark Sector were linear, the gameplay's pacing and level design allowed for a lot of variety. A lot of cool stuff happened in between the fighting as well (that's another topic that's not actually gameplay, but is relative to gameplay.)

 

I can think of a really good game mode off the top of my head that could work really well in Warframe, and that's the Crossroads game mode in Dead Island: Epidemic. In that game mode, four players have to stick together and complete a series of (planned to be) randomized objectives in various parts of the large map while their secondary objective is to collect as many Supplies as possible to increase their loot gain. A similar game mode in Warframe would be excellent because it can:

 

1. Provide earned loot rather than -only- randomly generated loot.

 

2. Incorporate more lore into the gameplay

 

3. Mixes everything up and keeps players on their toes so that they aren't bored, also effectively making grinding less painful.

 

A second game mode that I think could work well in Warframe is the way Anarchy Reigns is designed with most of the campaign's levels. In Anarchy Reigns, the player must cause enough havoc and gain points to unlock the next mission up until they reach a boss. All of the missions use the same map and require different tactics and use of mechanics to overcome, and completing these missions under certain conditions will yield higher rewards. A similar game mode in Warframe would be excellent because it can:

 

1. Provide earned loot rather than -only- randomly generated loot.

 

2. Incorporate more lore into the gameplay

 

3. Mixes everything up and keeps players on their toes so that they aren't bored, also effectively making grinding less painful.

 

4. Allows players to explore more mechanics and interact more with NPCs and the environment.

 

Please keep in mind that these won't work very well without other changes in movement, NPC interaction (stealth is included), environment interaction, and level design.

 

 

 

2. Gameplay lacks intrinsic value.

 

See:

 

Or if you can't see it

 

Now before you comment on this one, I know that we're fighting for the balance of the galaxy. (Or are we?) It's not really even clear what we're fighting for because sometimes we're treated like mercenaries and other times we're treated like sacred duty-bound super-important beings that are here to perform for a higher cause than rewards.

 

Of course, we're here to kill some Grineer. They're the biggest evil in the Origin System. However, in regards to everything else we do, we're all over the place and a lot of our actions don't make total sense. This is also relative to actual gameplay.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, I'm not saying that this game isn't a good game. It is a good game. It's squeezed more hours out of me than any game ever made. I enjoy it a lot still. However, because I love the game so much, I have to share what I feel will improve the game, draw in more players, and keep existing players from getting burnt out. Yes, I do know that this game in a long-term beta. This is why it's a perfect opportunity to expand, re-evaluate, repurpose, and revamp.

This is a great post, I was really interested in warframe for the first year but after that I saw that DE was really only releasing shiny "looking" things the gameplay was really starting to fall off. Players have been telling DE to work on the gameplay and cut back on releasing shiny things that are gonna get dumped by players in two weeks. They release cool concepts that need further attention, part of the problem though is that they release these things and don't look back. Just about every concept they have released has a world of problems. Kubrows, Archwing, melee, and other things. Players have pointed this out a number of times and all we ever get is "it's being looked at" and never to be heard from again. My hats off to the art team and always has been cause they do a damn good job at making this game look great. It's now on the devs who work on the gameplay to step it up. I really support this post and hope it gets official attention cause I don't want this game to suck. This game could be titled "Loot Ninja" and it would perfectly make sense. Come on DE, start making improvements. I want to play this game but the constant grind walls and the lack of refinement on your concepts keep me from wanting to install this game again.

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

1. Parkour will be looked at early 2015

2. Stealth is going to be looked at, especially with the upcoming Spy 2.0 missions.

 

I don't know if stealth is actually going to be looked at intensively. It's very possible that they will just adjust the mission and call it a day. What stealth needs isn't a new game mode but more fleshed out mechanics. Allowing players to return to an undetected status when breaking line of sight would be a good start. But on top of that DE needs to craft mechanics and stages that are conducive to co-op stealth while still remaining solo-able. How they could do that, I have no idea. But since warframe is primarily a co-op game It needs to roll both ways.

 

- Lack of end-game

Define what you call an  end-game , the term by itself is quite abstract.

 

- RNG-based progression (mod related)

Not necessary something , unless it's taked to the extreme ,which admittedly happens in various occasions on warframe (stances).

 

- New Warframes and weapons are increasingly harder to obtain without shelling out platinum

 

I can give you the warframe one , if we are talking about hydroid , mesa. Now for weapons , the only one i can think of that fits this category are the Despair.

Now primes are a whole different story , admittedly they are huge mess.

 

- Overly simplistic parkour mechanics and missing essential parkour functions

True , however it's gonna be looked early 2015 according to the devs.

 

- Stealth is a mechanic that game modes have no design accommodations for.

It's being addressed somewhat with spy 2.0.

 

- Stealth itself isn't fully designed or polished.

True but it's something that's being worked on, albeit very slowly.

 

- Repetitive gameplay.

Holy S#&$ , pretty much every game after 100+ hours.

 

- Gimmicky Warframe design.

So because something doesn't see widespread usage or it's a bit  specialized in gameplay , it's automatically useless ?

 

- "Press 4 to win" ultimates

Whenever it's gonna be that or not it's for the player to decide (which is the beauty of warframe) , however most of those "nukes" hit a rough wall eventually.

 

- Gameplay is only designed around one tactic which is running/ defending and gunning, removing the Ninja from Space Ninja.

 

How exactly is run and gun a bad thing ?

As for the ninja part , maybe the decided to steer away from it (as the main theme) during development , since as a concept it would require very specialized gameplay.

 

- Mods are extremely imbalanced or badly designed and a lot of them are relics from Damage 1.0.

Yes and no.While i agree to some extend , i don't think the picture is as blank as you paint it.

 

- Equipment only scales with mods.

Please explain why this is negative.

 

- Gameplay is far too simplistic. Game modes feel like nothing but MMO Instances, only much more linear and lack variety.

There is nothing wrong with simplistic game modes beauty can be found even in the simplest stuff.That also doesn't mean that more complex game modes shouldn't exist either , on the contrary they would be a welcomed  addition in warfame.

 

- Map design does not accommodate for more complex gameplay.

Again the term "complex gameplay" is too abstract.

 

- Other mechanics that fit the theme of Warframe and Ninja are not present, most of which wouldn't work due to map and mission design. (Climbing, throwing, other contextual actions.)

"Theme of Warframe" i don't think warframe has definitive theme.

 

I agree with a lot of these so I'll reply instead.

 

1) Endgame is basically any game mode that can retain its replayability whilst lacking progression. Endgame needs to lack progression because it is supposed to be designed to appease players that have already received all the rewards(levels, gear, and whathaveyou) they want. PvP is a good example because, if it's balanced, it can give players something to do with all the equipment they have gathered while still retaining the challenge necessary to keep gameplay feeling fresh and entertaining.

 

So far every attempt at endgame in warframe has rewards attached to it. when that in and of itself disqualifies it as true endgame.

 

2) All progression outside of XP, in warframe, is in some way tied to RNG. New weapons and Warframe all require resource drops to be obtained and increasing the effectiveness of any piece of equipment is tied to mods, which all drop randomly as well. The drop rates for many items are very generous but the fact that it is RNG based still applies. I, for one, ran into the issue of being unable to obtain serration for a ridiculous amount of time due to RNG which halted my progression abruptly.

 

Edit: and before someone says it. I don't think trading is a solution to this issue at all. Every player should be able to progress steadily by their own merit and by their merit alone. Nobody should need to rely on some other random to progress. Unless it's  a sandbox MMO but that's because, in that case, everyone relies on everyone else.

 

3) I agree on this one.

 

4)Woot!!

 

5) I mentioned above why I don't think spy 2.0 will really improve much in concerns to stealth. If mechanical changes are made DE will probably have to go back and redesign the game mode again(or make another) that takes advantage of the new mechanics anyways.

 

6) ↑

 

7) I see people say this all the time in response to this particular complaint but I think you may be missing the point. It's true that all games feel repetitive since, by their very nature, games have to repeat themselves. But it is important to notice that there are things that games can do to alleviate the feeling of repetitiveness during increasing hours of play. Gameplay variety, engrossing stories, challenges, meaningful inter-player interactions, steady progression, etc. can all keep games from feeling repetitive over time. Warframe seems to lack a great many of these which can lead to the game beginning to feel repetitive WAY too soon. It's not too difficult to find players that get the feeling far before the 100 hour mark.

 

8)No Comment.

 

9) I could write an essay on why P4TW is game breaking. But to sum it up in few words. Players can not be allowed to become too OP. Challenge is important to keeping gameplay engaging and OP player characters make it extremely difficult for the devs to craft quality challenges. It may not be a huge issue right now but it can be terrible for the game in the long run.

 

10) Running and gunning isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, like I mentioned above, gameplay needs variety to keep it from getting stale. Creating several ways to play a single instance strengthens replayability. It also comes with the added benefit of attracting players of varying playstyles. Plus a number of other benefits for co-op games in particular(think classes and such).

 

11) I agree. But I don't really think he meant 100% of mods suck. Just a lot of them.

 

12) RNG based progression lacks any sort of reliable forward movement. Two people can put the same amount of time and energy into Warframe and have drastically different capabilities due to randomness. The lack of guaranteed payoff can also contribute to progression stagnation(like my serration example) and a feeling of time being wasted. The focus system sounds like it might remedy this issue though.

 

13) 'Gree

 

14) Basically maps don't really accent any of the gameplay and serve merely as a backdrop. Maps don't have any significant effect on gunplay, parkour, or stealth despite the fact that well designed maps can improve the gameplay experience of all of these.

 

15) I think that warframe definitely has a theme. And if it truly doesn't then it needs one. Theme is just as important to games as it is to all other forms of media. A game without a theme can easily become disjointed and messy.  Especially if it is in active development. That doesn't mean that DE has to pick "ninjas" and never deviate from the textbook cliche ninja stuff though. It just needs to pick a focus and shoot towards it. Most people just assume that "Space ninja-marines" is the focus of Warframe since that is what has been pushed heavily over the course of the game's development.

Edited December 4, 2014 by (PS4)KaxMcc

[Orbister]

I'm starting to think it's time for Playerbase v2.0.

Perhaps one that rolls back to Complaining v0.5 beta.

 

"Again, I'm not saying that this game isn't a good game. It is a good game. It's squeezed more hours out of me than any game ever made. I enjoy it a lot still. However, because I love the game so much, I have to share what I feel will improve the game, draw in more players, and keep existing players from getting burnt out. Yes, I do know that this game in a long-term beta. This is why it's a perfect opportunity to expand, re-evaluate, repurpose, and revamp."

 

I agree with this, and generally the whole post in spirit, but go play Borderlands. Go play Global Agenda. Heck, go play Destiny.

 

They ALL do this. None of them are really designed to support more then say, a max 100 hours of game play, REGARDLESS of how you try and squeeze it out. After the "main play time" it comes down to "just how much do you just enjoy pulling a trigger?"

 

Other then dynamic missions, or heavily scripted stuff, this is not getting "fixed" any time soon. We were supposed to play a while and move on, not hang around this long. It was never designed that way, DE even admitted to this in a Dev stream. They are trying to add new stuff, but I don't think they are going to gut the foundation mechanics of the game to turn into into an MMO.

 

Warframe still remains the only game in my Steam list that I come back to because at least, every so often, I get new surprises. Nothing to write home about maybe, but better then logging in to every other game, and find it EXACTLY the same.

 

It's a 2 year old frigging game, it's just a baby. Lower your expectations. EvE Online is 10+ years old, and it only started implementing big changes recently, like no costs for new clones and infinite skill queues.

so... you are suggesting that people should stop giving feedback (which is in fact expected by DE) because you don't feel comfortable with people giving feedback?... and you are telling all these players to just leave?

 

And you are also telling all of us that Warframe is supposed to be just a light short time experience? do you really think Devs would agree with you? i bet they want just the opposite, i bet they want people to stay.

so...

 

NO. 

 

I think you should choose what threads you read more carefully if you are bothered by other players giving feedback.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Orbister