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[DE]Glen

Trinity: Energy Vampire

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If you implement it as you stated, without a making a few adjustments, I think you'll end up regretting it.

 

Casting EV on an enemy affected by Well of Life should kill them within one tic, about 2.25 seconds, and cause them to radiate both health and energy.

 

Without using Well of Life, you could mod Trinity with a maxed Fleeting Expertise and Transient Fortitude, and reduce the duration down to something like 1.125 seconds (I think).  Equip a Rank 4 Blind Rage, and they'll be dead in half that time...and with a maxed Streamline, it will end up costing 17.5 energy to use.

 

So a team of four Trinities could take out 4 enemies every 0.5-0.6 seconds, regardless of level.  Substitute a Mag prime and a Banshee, and you've got a perpetual winning machine for Void missions...

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If you implement it as you stated, without a making a few adjustments, I think you'll end up regretting it.

 

Casting EV on an enemy affected by Well of Life should kill them within one tic, about 2.25 seconds, and cause them to radiate both health and energy.

 

Without using Well of Life, you could mod Trinity with a maxed Fleeting Expertise and Transient Fortitude, and reduce the duration down to something like 1.125 seconds (I think).  Equip a Rank 4 Blind Rage, and they'll be dead in half that time...and with a maxed Streamline, it will end up costing 17.5 energy to use.

 

So a team of four Trinities could take out 4 enemies every 0.5-0.6 seconds, regardless of level.  Substitute a Mag prime and a Banshee, and you've got a perpetual winning machine for Void missions...

 

I've tried this combo -- it's not as fast as you'd think (1-2 is still faster), it's just easier for casuals.

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Want a funny?

 

"What's going on now? Who's nerfing myyyyyyy Trinity? Not anyone else's, or that person down the street, but my specific usage of a warframe? Gosh, that makes it 60 weeks of nerfs in a row! If I had a nickel for every time she was nerfed, I'd have enough to buy a hot pocket for dinner! Wait-wait-wait... lemme start up 3 or 4 separate nerfing threads to discuss this in a proper light. *shakes fist*"

 

XD I main Trinity, so any new or different usage is alright. The percentage scaling is nice, too, since higher level content is difficult enough to warrant a tiny damage boost for her. Just the tiny little bit seen here. No need to overdo it~

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I've tried this combo -- it's not as fast as you'd think (1-2 is still faster), it's just easier for casuals.

Alright, so long as you guys have already considered those scenarios.  I'm all for making her more more accessible and flexible :)

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Trinity’s Energy Vampire will be receiving tweaks soon that address a common infinite energy loophole being used in game. Trinity players are likely aware that Energy Vampire deals damage to targets and the coming tweaks only affect the damage dealing aspect of the ability
 
The effect of these changes is that you can no longer get energy from a target without hurting it -- previously the damage output would dwindle away to nothing as the enemy got closer and closer to death and you could continue to leech energy forever (to say nothing of targets that were naturally invulnerable).

Umm if the tweaks mean a reduced target pool for EV, they don't only affect the DD side of things...

 

That said, I'm on the fence with the changes as they're written but kinda feeling like it'll be more of a nerf to me than a buff. For mobs? Yeah sure it's a buff, but maybe it's just how I just play but first thing I do when throwing EV on a mob is to kill it for the full energy refill so it's not really much of one there. On bosses though? Feels like more like a nerf than not. Granted, I'll admit I may be wrong but any boss that's invulnerable aside from a weak spot(Ruk and Lephantis for example), means no damage from EV, which will mean that they are no longer valid targets. Additionally, if the change means that pulses won't give out energy if a boss goes into an invulnerability mode while EV's active on it, that's another nerf.

Edited by Enepttastic

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Umm if the tweaks mean a reduced target pool for EV, they don't only affect the DD side of things...

 

That said, I'm on the fence with the changes as they're written but kinda feeling like it'll be more of a nerf to me than a buff. For mobs? Yeah sure it's a buff, but maybe it's just how I just play but first thing I do when throwing EV on a mob is to kill it for the full energy refill so it's not really much of one there. On bosses though? Feels like more like a nerf than not. Granted, I'll admit I may be wrong but any boss that's invulnerable aside from a weak spot(Ruk and Lephantis for example), means no damage from EV, which will mean that they are no longer valid targets. Additionally, if the change means that pulses won't give out energy if a boss goes into an invulnerability mode while EV's active on it, that's another nerf.

 

Works fine on Lephantis -- just have to cast when the mouth is open. Should still work on Ruk but I haven't tried it myself -- it's going through more thorough testing now.

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Instead of changing EV, we should get Well of life changes in my opinion.
I know it was supposed to be a low energy cost alternative for trinity but i think that you already know that almost noone uses it.

WoL is just useless in current state maybe changing this skill or at least its augmented version would be nice.
Those augmented mod should be more offensive/defensive instead of dropping some health orbs (basically its the last thing which other teammates  need having trinity in party).

Maybe you could change the the marked enemy to some kind of medium for other enemies, for example some kind of dmg dealt to marked enemy with Wol could be dealt to other enemies in WoL range, along with status effects. Other warframes could use they one target skills on this target to deal Dmg to multiple enemies.

But those changes looks quite nice to Ev maybe Wol will get some tweaking soon...

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YES!

 

Been waiting for changes into that direction for a long time. I sincerely hope that the abilities will be tweaked in such a fashion across the board, so people can pick damage-dealing frames for higher difficulty missions again, rather than limiting themselves to crowd control or high-durability frames / support.

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great another step away from what made trinity so damn special. at first she was the only pure support warframe and that was special. now she is nothing but a mana battery with a nuke. i get more use out of an energy restore totem than trinity and this rework is not helping return trinity to her supportive roots. energy vamp didn't need a rework her useless ult did. 

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Hm.

 

I'm not sure how it's actually going to play out, but on paper this doesn't appear to be a buff or a nerf. I'm interested to get my hands on the change, as it seems like it could be cool. 

 

I am very excited to hear percentage scaling for abilities being brought up though.

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The only nerf is that we won't get energy if the ability doesn't deal damage? Will the remaining energy still be gained when the target dies?

If so, it sounds like a great change.

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Mmmm... I'm getting the nagging feeling that this doesn't sound like a good thing.

 

But somehow it is a good thing...

 
My Trinity is confused....

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This seems interesting. It might give EV an additional utility beyond simple energy restore. I can't seem to find any negative aspects to the proposed changes.

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Interesting. Looking forward to trying it out and seeing how it feels.

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Works fine on Lephantis -- just have to cast when the mouth is open.

ooh, i really like that then. if i can still use it on Bosses and such, but just only when they're vulnerable, then i can still use it on them, just not at any random time.

 

which is more than acceptable. in fact, that would make it more Engaging, and i'm always looking for more ways to make Video Games more Engaging to play.

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great another step away from what made trinity so damn special. at first she was the only pure support warframe and that was special. now she is nothing but a mana battery with a nuke. i get more use out of an energy restore totem than trinity and this rework is not helping return trinity to her supportive roots. energy vamp didn't need a rework her useless ult did. 

Try running blind rage and flow. with one cast of Energy vampire you half fill your 450 energy and Fill up everyone elses. not to mention 4 will still full heal health and shields and with 3 and 4 your DR gets around 80% while near enemies for 10 seconds at a time. As such, shotgun builds are viable and fun (I use boar prime). rather than hitting 4 and doing nothing you are now constantly using every ability except 1 (because it needs to be reworked).

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Ya, why does Energy Vampure not work on ragdolled enemies?  Is this like enemies figured out a glitch in the universe similar to how if Tennos backflip off a wall then they will exit Limbo's rift mode?

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To be honest, I don't see the point of this buff to damage, and nerf to energy.. 

The only thing this changed was giving trinity more load of work.

 

Since all of your teammates will 1 shot every mob (atleast mine do) you have to first kill 1 yourself.. 

Then let each team mate kill 1.. so you have to use EV 4 times instead of 1 to be at same place as before. (or 3 if your dmg with EV counts for dmg for you)

 

Difference being,, Trinity now has (more?) single target dmg

But the problem still stays. There is still infinite energy, what will this accomplish other than being a pain?

 

I think you should rather focus on her 1. It does absolutely nothing. Nobody would want life orbs when I can just click 4 from other side of the map.

Not to mention,, they have to dmg the mob to get health.. What a major waste of ammo. You could make it pulse like EV atleast!

 

EV= Energy Vampire.

Edited by Rezo0

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Was going to say "Better nerf Trinity Wednesday", but im not sure. I'll have to test these changes myself

 

Seriously though, why does Trinity get so much attention and none of the other frames?

Trinity Prime confirmed.

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While it's not changed can somebody explain me this wol/EV combo. I tried it on Phorid and other bullet sponge bosses but failed in details.

 

Cast Well of Life on Phorid, dodge until Well of Life is around 1 second, hit phorid with Energy Vampire, watch as Well of Life expires while Energy Vampire pulse damage applies damage scaled to ten times Phorid's hp.  

 

Should be an instakill on the second pulse. 

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Trinity Change - It seems more of a change to address exploits on one hand, and more viability of damage builds on the other. The former is not Trinity's fault, the latter is nice, but for now just a small change in the big picture.

Further interesting options I can see are for instance: - Damage resistance scaling with Well of Life pulses - Blessing respecting the highest resistance given at one point and further Blessings prolonging that - Trinity sucking energy from enemies preventing them to use abilities (tough one to implement) - a double tap to Link where you can choose to either link to friends or to enemies with varying boni - a radial knockback component to Blessing, akin to the Banshee's 1 skill - Well of LIfe and Energy Vamp being castable onto firendlies with new effects - Blessing giving a small window of invulnerability to people reviving/the one revived/Sentinels (that one might be exploitable).

Depending on the design philosophy we could even have Link make her skills Area-of-Effect, sucking life and energy from a group of enemies or crowd-controlling them - at drastically increased energy cost/less energy given to team. All this can be balanced.

Trinity used to be one of the best support characters compared to the supports in all other games. This has changed due to exploit and balance fixes. Now a lot of players pick her for the utility but not neccessarily to have fun. They get the downside of being a support without the upside. But hey, you can kill and have a lot of energy, so why complain? Let us take a closer look:

Link Exploits lead to that skill being reduced to something unreliable, where the problem was the way self-damage interacts with the link, which really shouldn't be blamed on Trinity. Maybe a fix to the weapons concerned would be a good thing instead, or AoE only partially working on the Link.

Blessing was reduced to a mere shadow of its former self, because there was hardly a way you could fail a mission when constantly or almost constantly invulnerable. Looking at the Syndicate replenishing mods; maybe we can play around with Trinity boosting defenses or energy beyond the 100% amount a player can have. If we want to go Extreme there, we can make the amount of boost defenses rely on Mastery Level. And yes, I just totally said that and meant it.

Currently, there is just no way to rely on Blessing at higher levels (where it matters), and no way to do it right. The skillset synergy drops off heavily at semi-high levels, which leads to the problem of scaling warframe powers and the philosophy the game pursues with them.

Waiting for players to lose as much HP as possible before you hit Blessing is cruel in nature and seems a cynical way to look at how warframes should interact. ("You have a hole in your chest? Wait I will help you once you miss an arm and your legs too.")

Keeping track of player health along with your energy, taking into account the current UI, also has me wonder. Why would I want my energy in one corner of my screen when I am supposed to watch my team mates' HP/shields in the other?

I pointed this out when the new UI was introduced. There is a long post by PHOBIE in the Design Council section of the forums which seems to have received not so much consideration, although the DEV in charge replied and made another(?) good point :)

(Candidly spelled out: UI is a problem. It looks shiny and that is that. I will pick simple numbers on black ground over all the spectacle any day given the chance. I feel we should not allow a lot of work going into UI and later fail to monetize on that.)

While I am thankful that the changes address exploits effectively, I feel scalabitly of warframe powers needs to be addressed taking into account both the susceptibility to exploits and what veteran players want from the game. It is easy to see that this must be a difficult task, but we should probably do it together; preferably soon.

Without respecting veteran players I feel there will be nobody to explain the game to new players, and the odds are seemingly slim that new players will stay interested without help. I appreciate all the work that goes into Warframe powers and their synergy. Let this be just the first step to renewed glory. Let us work together to make WARFRAME's future brighter and a searing light in the eyes of our competitors. The forums is only the start.

--

P

Edited by PHOBIE
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