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[DE]Glen

Trinity: Energy Vampire

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Overall I doubt these changes will mean anything to how I play Trinity.  Since I want Link to actually last more than 5 seconds I don't use a build to maximize EV damage.  In my eyes this is a slight nerf to content I rarely bother with. 

 

While DE is addressing "infinite energy loopholes" does this mean we should expect to see Rage + Trinity/Oberon healing changes as well?  I mean, why bother with EV when you can just take some damage to get full energy then heal?  Throw in some efficiency and you're golden.

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Overall I doubt these changes will mean anything to how I play Trinity.  Since I want Link to actually last more than 5 seconds I don't use a build to maximize EV damage.  In my eyes this is a slight nerf to content I rarely bother with. 

 

While DE is addressing "infinite energy loopholes" does this mean we should expect to see Rage + Trinity/Oberon healing changes as well?  I mean, why bother with EV when you can just take some damage to get full energy then heal?  Throw in some efficiency and you're golden.

Exactly my point!

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Another Trinity nerf, ha ha.  Is there some kind of meme I'm unaware of?

 

**edit:  after reading this, I think it's fair.  I was actually unaware of the infinite energy loophole because I almost always kill them immediately after using EV.  The damage boost is certainly a welcome addition :)

 

So this basically guarantees a kill over the duration of the ability, from what I'm seeing (four tics, 1/4 of max life taken guaranteed).  Combine it with Well of Life and the enemy should be killed within one tic.  If you don't use it with Well of Life, and equip a maxed Fleeting Expertise and Transient Fortitude you'll have like, what, a 1.1 second duration?  Combine that with a Rank 4 Rage and you've got a kill every 0.5-0.6 seconds, roughly, regardless of enemy level, plus energy and health pulsing out.  It's pretty interesting, actually...sure you want to do this?

Call me a brand new trinity player and explain this to me? They way I played trinity was keeping link up and killing everything with melee never worrying about death...ever. What am I missing..?

 

Maced out link duration>Dakra prime>get energy when you need it = win. Goddess trin right here.

Edited by Felikatte

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I really hope you guys consider switching more abilities to work of percentages of enemy health, it's probably single-handedly why caster frames are so bad.  Abilities are what differentiate the different Warframes; they should always be useful and effective against enemies, even when they've scaled up to ridiculous.

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Trinity’s Energy Vampire will be receiving tweaks soon that address a common infinite energy loophole being used in game. Trinity players are likely aware that Energy Vampire deals damage to targets and the coming tweaks only affect the damage dealing aspect of the ability. 
 
The next version of Trinity’s Energy Vampire will include the following: 
 
  • Damage dealt is now direct-to-health damage instead of Slash (ignoring armor)
  • Damage is now only scaled off of HP instead of HP + Shields
  • Damage will scale off of their current HP or ¼ of their max, whichever is greater
  • Damage will always be at least 5 HP per pulse
  • You will no longer be able to cast on targets that won’t take damage from it; this specifically applies during the invulnerability phases of certain bosses
 
The effect of these changes is that you can no longer get energy from a target without hurting it -- previously the damage output would dwindle away to nothing as the enemy got closer and closer to death and you could continue to leech energy forever (to say nothing of targets that were naturally invulnerable).
 
This also means that Trinity can do massive damage to very powerful enemies using Vampire; in my testing a maximum power-strength Trinity can effectively cut a target’s HP in half with a single cast!
 
This change will undoubtedly open up a lot of conversations about damage abilities overall using ratios and percentages instead of constant values; this is something we will be paying close attention to however it’s important to remember that, even though this makes Energy Vampire more deadly, combining it with Well of Life is already amazingly powerful!
 
Please let us know your thoughts on these changes -- they should be out in a hotfix soon.
 

 

 

Tell me why everyone is mainly running Energy Syphon, Glen, Tell me why Trinity is favoured to use EV anyway?

Shouldn't you be focusing on the Ultimates and making that more diverse build in the player/play options? Variety in builds is the spice of everything.

You've even got players doing things and memes like shoving Sure Shot in the trash can. Which kind of makes me take a step back as a player and go "Hang on..."

Unless you're going to put in a Warframe option that's a bigger ultimate ala/aka the Focus system (We still don't know what this is yet, surprise us.)

So you put in Transient Fortitude in, which lowers the duration on things and raises the power strength. What/How did you think we're going to build Trinity after Blessing invulnerability got changed?

At present you've dug yourself into three minor systems:

-- Duration

-- Distance

-- Power Strength

Now with a fair indication of what you've got going for the above systems

+Power Strenth / -Power Strength

+Power Duration / -Power Duration

+Power Distance / -Power Distance

So if you continue along this line you've got 6 builds per frame unless you factor in anything like Flow or Efficency.

Unless you want to make use the actual energy amount in total for an ultimate on top of the ultimate or something of that nature. Then I don't know what you're going to do. Ideally maybe the focus system could be a minor tree system extension of the "Orokin technology" on how we (the lore universe) got to where we are at now.

I hate to say it but Nova (ironically -- a community designed frame) has the right middle ground of the above 3 systems. It works off Duration, Range and Power Strength.

Then you've got effiency versus actual energy amount.

Because also at the moment the systems you've got are:

-- Base Damage & The multishot.

-- Weapon Red Crits (+100%)

-- No status affect / chance, if things are over 100%

-- Crowd Control

-- Damage multipliers.

-- Elemental Damage system.

You're still hedging people to use Energy Syphon and Armor Reduction (Corrosive Projection).

Hoping you can get more mechanics that have slight affects/effects on other things.

Semi all right job with the Corpus and the blue circle grenade thing. But you're going to have to make the players step back in certain instances (the journey) or provide a few more mechanical incentives. Maybe the Riot Moa. But we'll see (as a community).

Wave 1~50 is an experience but it's still standing around spamming powers and firing bullets. Up at level 62 (20~30 : Void Tier 4) is where things sort of get into the high risk area, with the current level concurrent environment. You talk about the journey across the solar system but re-adjusting the levels isn't the journey. You have to tackle problems/various threats on that journey.

I don't know if Rebecca or Scott read anything I write. But this is where you're at, at the moment.

I've written in past posts where you could put a Blessing Overcharge decay mechanic on the health and or shield boosting. If you remember Unreal Tournament 2004, when you grab the Keg o' Health things slowly start ticking down or in gaming mechanic terms (decaying). Maybe it might be something you're more familiar with.

 

Edited by Kinjeto
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I think im doing something wrong, none of the trinity changes have affected my playstyle with trinity.  I still kill everything with my hek.

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great another step away from what made trinity so damn special. at first she was the only pure support warframe and that was special. now she is nothing but a mana battery with a nuke. i get more use out of an energy restore totem than trinity and this rework is not helping return trinity to her supportive roots. energy vamp didn't need a rework her useless ult did.

Useless ult that has saved my &#! quite a few times in the hands of a skilled Trinity player. Just sayin. It's not useless

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Energy vampire was NEVER used as damaging ability, it's purely supportive power. Fact that we can't feed nyx in absorb is ... why the hell we can't feed her anymore? So you want Nyx to run dry, when she is let's say, doing her job and defending the pod with Absorb, while enemies shoot at her and deplete her energy. You've already did the change that player dmg causes massive loss of energy for Nyx, now she can't recieve any energy while being in Absorb - what's up with this idea really?

What is nyx supposed to be used for then? Chaos build? With so many impatient players, that if enemies don't die in few seconds, they quit?

With energy vamp - most of us cast it on any enemy in sight and one shot kill it. So I really don't see massive change with that by your "tweak". I only see another nerf on NYX.

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I really don't like this change, it gimps Energy Vampire's role and brings back the old problem:

 

If you don't shoot it you don't get energy, you shoot it chances are you waste ammo that could have been used for.

 

This change seems more like a reason to use Well of Life yet it's a bad choice, a better solution for making Well of Life better was to just make it radiate healing pulses (similar to the now defunct Energy Vampire), although HP scaling and defense ignore is a nice change and something like this for all frames would be nice however if that goes through then everybody would end up as Ash, spam highest dmg skill to win.

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"This also means that Trinity can do massive damage to very powerful enemies using Vampire; in my testing a maximum power-strength Trinity can effectively cut a target’s HP in half with a single cast!"

I wonder on which rank/level enemies you tested on?

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"This also means that Trinity can do massive damage to very powerful enemies using Vampire; in my testing a maximum power-strength Trinity can effectively cut a target’s HP in half with a single cast!"

I wonder on which rank/level enemies you tested on?

well. i just killed corrupted vor casting this 2-3 times on vor's core. if thats any indication

also was assisted by nova ult

Edited by Tainted_Fox

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well. i just killed corrupted vor casting this 2-3 times on vor's core. if thats any indication

also was assisted by nova ult

Oh my, I wanna try it!.. and i will. thanks

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Call me a brand new trinity player and explain this to me? They way I played trinity was keeping link up and killing everything with melee never worrying about death...ever. What am I missing..?

 

Maced out link duration>Dakra prime>get energy when you need it = win. Goddess trin right here.

Then you took the wrong frame, bro, or you played on lower levels. Trinity is a support frame. And not a support to herself, but to others. So you don't usually go berserk only, but sometimes you need to cast a few EV or Bless to help ppl (I looove Trinities that cast Bless frequently, even if the player's status shows good health. Those care about you doggy or sentinel, that is what I call support).

 

If you want to kill everything with melee while not worrying getting damage, take Rhino.

 

Anyway, do a mission in T4 Defense with Trinity, and after wave 20 you'll realize that Link helps nothing. If you waste a mod space for Natural Talent then you might gain some advance, but mob will kill you in jiffy. Blame Trinity's low armor.

And try Orthos Prime :-)

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Let's play a game. Person who can figure out how many of the ragers are just mesa and nyx players in disguise wins a cookie!

I kid but it's a interesting change. The extreme exploiters are nerfed hard, semi exploiters are lightly nerfed, people who don't exploit but don't wanna change build no change, and maybe just maybe a new interesting build for the bold. I use the term exploit losely and I don't really feel they where but still this nerf can easily be worked around except maybe in nyxs case since she alays is running out right when it gets hectic. Still maybe the new build could solve that problem it created.... hmmm

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Then you took the wrong frame, bro, or you played on lower levels. Trinity is a support frame. And not a support to herself, but to others. So you don't usually go berserk only, but sometimes you need to cast a few EV or Bless to help ppl (I looove Trinities that cast Bless frequently, even if the player's status shows good health. Those care about you doggy or sentinel, that is what I call support).

 

If you want to kill everything with melee while not worrying getting damage, take Rhino.

 

Anyway, do a mission in T4 Defense with Trinity, and after wave 20 you'll realize that Link helps nothing. If you waste a mod space for Natural Talent then you might gain some advance, but mob will kill you in jiffy. Blame Trinity's low armor.

And try Orthos Prime :-)

Um yeah that's actually not true. Rhino falloff is a fact. A funny fact. Funny because the people who breeze through low content and then reach decently high stuff are always surprised. Hilariously so.

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soooo...

 

How long before you scrap her current mechanic-broken powers for ones that are worth using?

Every other frame outperforms trinity in so many ways it's not even funny. (Need a healer? Take oberon. Need energy? who doesn't have siphon on?)

Link is probably the least-crap skill she has, and it's not great because barring one super bugged build (Which ended with Blessing getting nerfed into uselessness 90% of the time) it doesn't synergise well with anything.

Make her 1/2 skill pulsing auras on her, rather than enemies (so that the heal and energy isn't useless because in almost every mission type but defense the enemies either die instantly or get left behind) keep link, and make blessing grant shield+health regen over time and massively increased power strength to her and her team, which gradually goes down in effectiveness over the duration of the ult.

Suddenly she has a reason to be close enough for link to work and the kit to make it work. and she's not massively outclassed by the dunkmaster and his channeled heal/orb spawning ult. (Oberon, for those that don't know "pet" names)

I get that she's a crowd "Favorite" but she is so left behind right now it's terrible.

Try this:

1. Beacon of life: Trinity pulses waves of radiation damage outwards that heal allies and damage enemies caught by the wave for x seconds

2. Energy Vampire: Staggers all nearby enemies and causes them to take X electrical damage, each enemy hit releases a pulse that restores energy to teammates caught in the pulse, with trinity receiving a smaller percent of energy than her allies (Prevents her from just spamming the hell out of it forever)

3. Link: Stays the same, but no longer works on self-inflicted damage (No.)

4. Blessing: Grants massive health & shield regen, as well as increased power strength for X seconds, reducing in strength over the duration (Invulnerability mechanics are stupid, so this grants pseudo-invulnerability and increased health regen rather than a burst, and then down-scales over time, so knowing when to use it is huge, but it doesn't outshine her S1 in terms of healing)

Suddenly, trinity doesn't feel like an afterthought, is as effective as oberon, and isn't totally screwed by the presence of a nuking frame (All of her powers grant instant health/energy or effects and don't require wonky targeting mechanics.)

/rant.

Edit: to the person talking about blessing spam being great for pets, that's still not that great against super-hard things like L40+ infested where one runner explosion can down most sentinels and kubrows to half or less, let alone the average infested attack wave. the skill itself is just so borked in design now it hurts.

Edited by Zerethon

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soooo...

 

How long before you scrap her current mechanic-broken powers for ones that are worth using?

Every other frame outperforms trinity in so many ways it's not even funny. (Need a healer? Take oberon. Need energy? who doesn't have siphon on?)

Link is probably the least-crap skill she has, and it's not great because barring one super bugged build (Which ended with Blessing getting nerfed into uselessness 90% of the time) it doesn't synergise well with anything.

Make her 1/2 skill pulsing auras on her, rather than enemies (so that the heal and energy isn't useless because in almost every mission type but defense the enemies either die instantly or get left behind) keep link, and make blessing grant shield+health regen over time and massively increased power strength to her and her team, which gradually goes down in effectiveness over the duration of the ult.

Suddenly she has a reason to be close enough for link to work and the kit to make it work. and she's not massively outclassed by the dunkmaster and his channeled heal/orb spawning ult. (Oberon, for those that don't know "pet" names)

I get that she's a crowd "Favorite" but she is so left behind right now it's terrible.

Try this:

1. Beacon of life: Trinity pulses waves of radiation damage outwards that heal allies and damage enemies caught by the wave for x seconds

2. Energy Vampire: Staggers all nearby enemies and causes them to take X electrical damage, each enemy hit releases a pulse that restores energy to teammates caught in the pulse, with trinity receiving a smaller percent of energy than her allies (Prevents her from just spamming the hell out of it forever)

3. Link: Stays the same, but no longer works on self-inflicted damage (No.)

4. Blessing: Grants massive health & shield regen, as well as increased power strength for X seconds, reducing in strength over the duration (Invulnerability mechanics are stupid, so this grants pseudo-invulnerability and increased health regen rather than a burst, and then down-scales over time, so knowing when to use it is huge, but it doesn't outshine her S1 in terms of healing)

Suddenly, trinity doesn't feel like an afterthought, is as effective as oberon, and isn't totally screwed by the presence of a nuking frame (All of her powers grant instant health/energy or effects and don't require wonky targeting mechanics.)

/rant.

Edit: to the person talking about blessing spam being great for pets, that's still not that great against super-hard things like L40+ infested where one runner explosion can down most sentinels and kubrows to half or less, let alone the average infested attack wave. the skill itself is just so borked in design now it hurts.

What's up with people today... Rhino a better tank and Oberon a better healer. Did some one nerf trinity even further when I wasn't looking or are these fellas just failing at trinity like I think they are. Mechanically broken powers... yeah they are a little wonky so you want PoL to do radiation, vampire to deal electric and have more range, and to nerf/change blessing? Idts I'm good with Blessing the way it is as decaying reduction isn't as good as 99% reduction for complete duration. Rest of it is kinda just silly.

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I don't have any problem with the current EV changes. However, I'm not happy with how it interacts with Nyx's Absorb. Her not being able to receive energy and also losing energy due to enemy and ally damage seems like a hard limit on how much damage she can absorb.

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soooo...

 

How long before you scrap her current mechanic-broken powers for ones that are worth using?

Every other frame outperforms trinity in so many ways it's not even funny. (Need a healer? Take oberon. Need energy? who doesn't have siphon on?)

Link is probably the least-crap skill she has, and it's not great because barring one super bugged build (Which ended with Blessing getting nerfed into uselessness 90% of the time) it doesn't synergise well with anything.

Make her 1/2 skill pulsing auras on her, rather than enemies (so that the heal and energy isn't useless because in almost every mission type but defense the enemies either die instantly or get left behind) keep link, and make blessing grant shield+health regen over time and massively increased power strength to her and her team, which gradually goes down in effectiveness over the duration of the ult.

Suddenly she has a reason to be close enough for link to work and the kit to make it work. and she's not massively outclassed by the dunkmaster and his channeled heal/orb spawning ult. (Oberon, for those that don't know "pet" names)

I get that she's a crowd "Favorite" but she is so left behind right now it's terrible.

Try this:

1. Beacon of life: Trinity pulses waves of radiation damage outwards that heal allies and damage enemies caught by the wave for x seconds

2. Energy Vampire: Staggers all nearby enemies and causes them to take X electrical damage, each enemy hit releases a pulse that restores energy to teammates caught in the pulse, with trinity receiving a smaller percent of energy than her allies (Prevents her from just spamming the hell out of it forever)

3. Link: Stays the same, but no longer works on self-inflicted damage (No.)

4. Blessing: Grants massive health & shield regen, as well as increased power strength for X seconds, reducing in strength over the duration (Invulnerability mechanics are stupid, so this grants pseudo-invulnerability and increased health regen rather than a burst, and then down-scales over time, so knowing when to use it is huge, but it doesn't outshine her S1 in terms of healing)

Suddenly, trinity doesn't feel like an afterthought, is as effective as oberon, and isn't totally screwed by the presence of a nuking frame (All of her powers grant instant health/energy or effects and don't require wonky targeting mechanics.)

/rant.

Edit: to the person talking about blessing spam being great for pets, that's still not that great against super-hard things like L40+ infested where one runner explosion can down most sentinels and kubrows to half or less, let alone the average infested attack wave. the skill itself is just so borked in design now it hurts.

i totally dont understand your angle. my trinity supports a team against L80 infested on defense. i would tell you to tweak your trinity build before giving any feedback

that being said i did jam 2 forma's into mine. shes good as she as. ev changes are awesome

 

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Energy vampire was NEVER used as damaging ability, it's purely supportive power. Fact that we can't feed nyx in absorb is ... why the hell we can't feed her anymore? So you want Nyx to run dry, when she is let's say, doing her job and defending the pod with Absorb, while enemies shoot at her and deplete her energy. You've already did the change that player dmg causes massive loss of energy for Nyx, now she can't recieve any energy while being in Absorb - what's up with this idea really?

What is nyx supposed to be used for then? Chaos build? With so many impatient players, that if enemies don't die in few seconds, they quit?

With energy vamp - most of us cast it on any enemy in sight and one shot kill it. So I really don't see massive change with that by your "tweak". I only see another nerf on NYX.

 

 

I agree with this. Nyx absorb was directly and now indirectly beeing nerfed very hard. Se can't feed herself while in absorb in anyway now. Will be the worst ability ever since in every difficult content. Yes, this way nyx can only play spaming chaos.

 

Absorb in organized teams is used as a very important skill to aggro or defend something for a while. The energy being drained by demage+ can't feed will kill the ability completely.

Edited by KarmicRex
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Um yeah that's actually not true. Rhino falloff is a fact. A funny fact. Funny because the people who breeze through low content and then reach decently high stuff are always surprised. Hilariously so.

I emphasized on the "not caring for others" part. If he needs a frame that is sturdy and don't want to care about other players, Rhino is a good choice.

And where Rhino has a falloff, every frame has a falloff. I have experience with Rhino Prime on T4Def 30+ wave, yeah it becomes annoying that the Iron Skin disappears in 2 seconds, but show me a frame (except Valkyr) that survives better on its own (without abilities).

 

If you play high level, then you need "situational" and well tuned frames. And Rhino is not needed for his super armor on high level, but for Roar (as abilities becomes more and more useless on higher levels and weapons dominate).

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I agree with this. Nyx absorb was directly and now indirectly beeing nerfed very hard. Se can't feed herself while in absorb in anyway now. Will be the worst ability ever since in every difficult content. Yes, this way nyx can only play spaming chaos.

 

Absorb in organized teams is used as a very important skill to aggro or defend something for a while. The energy being drained by demage+ can't feed will kill the ability completely.

I have a sh*t tons of consumables, so I assume others have too. Why not drop a Large Team Energy and all problem solved?

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i totally dont understand your angle. my trinity supports a team against L80 infested on defense. i would tell you to tweak your trinity build before giving any feedback

that being said i did jam 2 forma's into mine. shes good as she as. ev changes are awesome

 

 

Let me rephrase this:

Her powers are so mechanically broken that against anything less than the most powerful raw mobs in the game, they're totally useless.

Yes, when used on a level 80+ Infested ancient her "Well" type powers are great, but in normal gameplay against mobs that scale to roughly 40 most things are pretty much dead long before her skills are useful.

 

I'd rather see her skills made useful in -all- forms of gameplay before a pass dealing with insane amounts of scaling. a broken system is still broken even when it only works in one certain place.

Go ahead, take a mag to a defense and try to make it to 80's, seriously, try it without the usual selection of gimmicks to go to wave 50+ and tell me how well you do.

More or less, fix the kit in normal gameplay, and then fix out the fringe gameplay later. Because keeping a generally useless kit for the sole reason of it's "Good against level 80+ enemies that only appear in super rare cases" Isn't a good enough reason for her being a complete bore to level and totally useless in teams capable of just carpet-bombing enemies even through her healing wells health increase in average missions.

Edited by Zerethon
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