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Psa: Coming Archwing Changes!

[DE]Rebecca

By [DE]Rebecca,
in Developer Workshops

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Llyssa

Llyssa

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Posted

This really isn't what many of us wanted.  We wanted other frames to be viable because they gave other advantages other than the advantages the tankier frames provided.  Just tossing out the whole idea of what frame you are using effecting archwing play is not the right move.  It comes off as the lazy way out. 

You can still suggest that each frame give a different bonus to AW mode. They just don't give their mod bonuses anymore.

 

Someone had once suggested either passives or a 5th ability that changed based on which frame you were. I'm all in favor of valk getting uber armor for flight.

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Llyssa

Llyssa

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Posted

Not really, the best frames are (still until patch) Valkyr and Vanguard Rhino Prime, due to armor stat being beast in AW and enemies spawning so many health globes.

Yes really. Zeph's base health+shields are WAY higher, so wearing max boosters for them gives a MASSIVE amount of health to work with. Valk's extreme armor helps most, but zeph's health is quite a huge definitive boost.

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(PSN)KinslayersDawn

(PSN)KinslayersDawn

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I am all on board for this, as long as it doesn't end with slower, more fragile archwings. The mod buffs really needed reworked. While we are at it, can we fix some of the other mods to balance,both in archwings and in regular play? Like Galvanized Edge and Shocking Touch both being far weaker than their counterparts? Or maybe how there is no pistol mod that can give more than 60% ice damage? And maybe buffing the base crit chance/damage in archwings weapons instead of buffing the mods? Because all that really means is that we are adding higher percentages to numbers that are still fairly low.

Don't get me wrong, I am really looking forward to the changes, and being able to run more than a handful of suits. I just hope it works out well. And please DE, let us keep our auras!

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Kitzun

Kitzun

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Posted (edited)

Yes really. Zeph's base health+shields are WAY higher, so wearing max boosters for them gives a MASSIVE amount of health to work with. Valk's extreme armor helps most, but zeph's health is quite a huge definitive boost.

No no, Steel Fiber and Argon Plating stack in AW, so armor reduces incoming damage so much that a big base health with low armor is outclassed by the extreme armor and average health of Valkyr.

In fact, an armor/health modded Valkyr has near 5000 real health despite her average base health due to high armor only.

 

If you take shields into account then Zephyr and Valkyr are simply not played the same, Zephyr is for guerilla to have shields resplenish while Valkyr is for continuous close quarter, where health globes spawn.

Edited by Kitzun
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MarioVX

MarioVX

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Posted

And, perhaps the biggest  change of all:

Warframe Stats and Mods no longer carry over onto Archwing performance.

All Archwings now have different base Health/Shield/Armor stats that can be modded (with the newly buffed mods).

What this generally will change is the ‘Rhino or XYZ is the only Viable frame’ statements.

 

I like the other changes, but must criticize this one. It is by no means the case that there was only one viable warframe for archwing missions. There are several viable ones that all have their advantages and disadvantages against each other, there was no one being the best at every aspect.

 

Notably, the top warframes for archwing missions at the moment are Valkyr, Arcane Vanguard Rhino Prime, Arcane Aurora Frost (Prime) and Saryn.

 

Valkyr has by far the most total effective hitpoints (shield + effective health) and the highest armor value, the latter means that collecting red orbs or using Team Health Restores restored the most effective health on her. On the other hand, her shield is really small, which means she often takes damage to her health which doesn't replenish automatically except when using the Rejuvenation aura.

 

Arcane Vanguard Rhino Prime is among those frames with the largest shield (which is nice because its automatically replenishable) the fastest one. He also has a large effective health pool, but others are larger. 

 

Arcane Aurora Frost (Prime) is among those frames with the largest shield the one with the most effective health, and has the highest armor after Valkyr. On the other hand, he is quite slow. 

 

Saryn is a balanced mix of high stats across all areas, without being the best at one specifically. She has the largest effective health pool after Valkyr, but her shield is twice as large as hers. She is faster than Frost and has a good, although of these four the lowest armor. 

 

 

What this should show is that picking your warframe for an archwing mission is a strategic decision to make, and offers indeed quite some variety.

 

The variety would have been further increased with the arrival of corrupted or primed mods affecting warframe stats, so that there are more archwing-relevant warframe mods than warframe mod slots, which would increase variety and cause players to make even more conscious decisions about how precisely they want to spec their frame for the upcoming (potentially tough) archwing missions. Thinking about Caelus (high level archwing interception), this could even encourage squads to assign specific roles to each player, having some avoid thick battles and rather move around the map quickly to capture points with fewer enemies, while other players throw themselves into the thick of things, keeping the enemy swarms occupied.

 

Now, by having warframe mods not transfering to archwing stats anymore, you take away all this potential strategic decision-making and the variety in gameplay that this brings. There are only two archwings right now, when there will be more this won't matter as much, but for now, this will extremely narrow the variety, every player will have the exact same stats on each archwing, with no options to customize anything that impacts actual performance, other than selecting either Elytron or Odonata (wow).

 

So yeah, I really appreciate the effort you put up to improve this game, and I like all the other changes you proposed, but please overthink this one. 

 

 

If 4 viable warframes aren't enough, you could also make stamina and energy pool be transferred from the warframe stats rather than having fixed values for each archwing, that would give an incentive to use these agile/caster type frames in archwing mode, thereby opening the field of eligible warframes to use in archwing mode even further. 

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Pendragon1951

Pendragon1951

Posted
Posted

At first I read this and thought the whole warframe stats not carrying over was sad, but then I thought alittle more. If DE does have a back and forth from ground to archwing combat then the ground combat would always be an army of Rhinos running around. This way vital warframes can be prepared ahead of time for combat, and not effect archwing combat. Alittle disappointing, but I really can't argue as I can't think of a better way for this to work. A 5th unique ability for each warframe on the archwing? Maybe? No? ok...

 

edit: Maybe we can see some syndicate augments for the archwings?

The problem with this train of thought is if the buff to the Archwing mods does not make your Archwing as durable as it was with your Warframe stats you may not even make it to the ground play because your constantly getting blasted out of the sky.

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LurkenLurker

LurkenLurker

Posted
Posted

 

Warframe Stats and Mods no longer carry over onto Archwing performance.

All Archwings now have different base Health/Shield/Armor stats that can be modded (with the newly buffed mods).

 

 

 

Thank you so much!!!!

 

 

SSHHHhhh.... my main is Loki..

 

you know vanguard affected arch wing also 

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s7n7a7k7e

s7n7a7k7e

Posted
Posted

righton, mostly all sounds good

 

as for the change to the base archwing stats and mods and no longer taking anything from the frame... cant say that im really impressed here =[

 

while yes, this does sound like a solution to the only rhino/valkyr/zephyr arghwing problem, this really seems like a cop-out way of dealing with it

 

would be much better to have each frame be able to use some of there own base abilities during archwing, thusly each of them having some useful purpose vs just their hp/shld/armr, give us a swap button to switch between frame abilities and archwing abilities (i realize this is a lot more work, but IMHO DE is doing a dis-service to the frames while in archwing)

 

i really dont think archwings have enough individuality to stand on their own (and they certainly dont offer enough utility considering the need for countermeasures in space combat and the cost of the abilities)

 

as much as i am glad that DE is making the PR effort to spend some time on arghwing, i really think the system needs a larger overhaul, put it back in the oven so-to-speak

 

^ ^ ^ This.

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Sherbniz

Sherbniz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Feel free to leave a reference link within your comment that points to feedback you've provided that outlines what it is you wanted so we can try to keep changes within an acceptable spectrum.

Hmm, honestly I don't mind.

This allows for more variety in Archwings, really.

 

Gives you more reason to release more diverse ones instead of just piggybacking on Warframes statswise.

 

Tanky Archwings, Speedy Archwings, Caster Archwings...

 

Currently I have to have a seperate loadout for Archwing only.

This change would allow a loadout to be viable in both gamemodes.

 

As long as we can reach a similar amount of survivability as with a good Frame/Archwing Loadout just with the buffed Archwings, I think everything is fine.

Edited by Sherbniz
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LizardsOnCrack

LizardsOnCrack

Posted
Posted

 

Why not make the mods that we applied to our frames change the stats of the archwing instead of adding the frame's stats to AW. So a valk with redirection would give the same benefits to the archwing as a rhino would. The archwings would still have their own stats, but the stats could be altered with WF mods without taking the frame's stats into account. It would let people play what they want & wouldn't restrict higher ranking players because they can use the mods they've acquired throughout the game. It would feel better not being restricted to just the bland archwing mods that are out right now since it seems like this update is going to do that.

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