Miasma Stealth Nerfed?

[Darzk]

Haven't seen anything on the forums, but as of 15.6 Miasma is getting less of a benefit than before from -duration. Did some testing - still getting partial invisible ticks and the added bonus tick, but damage seems to be reduced when there's a partial tick in play. Still hunting the cause.

 

At first glance it seems to be only dealing reduced damage with a partial duration. For example a setup with Arcane Chlora, max OE and FE before would have done 750 750 300(invis) before to a Corrupted Ancient, and now it's doing 690 690 and some partial # (probably 276) for a total damage loss of ~8%. Doesn't seem like much but it's significant when we throw on TF. 

 

A minimized duration setup of -92.5% duration with -0.5% power strength should be ticking against a Corrupted Ancient for ~8313  visible and 2494 invisible. Instead, the visible tick is only 5250, a damage loss of 37%!

 

The weird thing is I'm not seeing the damage loss when using a integer duration. With just -50% from FE R4 I'm seeing the same numbers as before (525 three times with OE against a Corrupted Ancient).

 

Has anyone else noticed a drastic change in Miasma mechanics? Can someone who can make -75% duration do some testing for me (I don't have a spare copy of TF).

[Darzk]

I just ran another test with -60% Fleeting Expertise and no Chlora. It did 1586x2 + reduced damage tick, which matches the theoretical damage if I'm correct.

1586.4 which would indeed display 1586.

 

Hmm, looks like maybe they made Chlora back into a magnitude rather than additive with the other duration modifiers.

 

If -65% from the test above was actually -60% and Chlora, I would guess at the new way of calculating it as 40% duration-5% would be 38% duration instead of 35%. 

 

38% duration would give us a display tick of (base=986.84 ->) =1669.9 which is pretty damn close to the experimental result of 1668.

 

Edit: Considering all the other helmets have negative multipliers rather than additive I'm wondering if this was actually a change, or we all just calculated duration with Chlora wrong and never noticed the discrepancy. 

 

Edit2: -92.5% duration would actually be -87.5+Chlora which would be 12.5%*95% = 11.875% duration, which would give a damage per tick of 5250 with -5% power strength; observed was 5250.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Darzk

[011100110110000101101101]

I think they fixed the -duration thing.

 

I would assume that to be the problem.

[Ninjamander]

your a bit late on that, they did stealth nerf her. Problem is most people won't notice until is too late =/

[Yazeth]

Welp, goodbye Saryn. *cries*

[StinkyPygmy]

Not that it really matters in the long run.

Miasma still goes boom and everything still dies.

[Ninjamander]

Welp, goodbye Saryn. *cries*

 

your aware she was nerf since a long time right XD? She can still wreck

[Yazeth]

your aware she was nerf since a long time right XD? She can still wreck

 

Huh, I thought that this was a recent thing. Welp, lemme take her out for another night.

[Ninjamander]

Huh, I thought that this was a recent thing. Welp, lemme take her out for another night.

 

please post your result =p

[Yazeth]

please post your result =p

 

Not tonight, but one night. :)

[RealPandemonium]

Just tested and here are my results:

 

+50% str

-80% dur 

Result vs Fossilized: 4137

 

+50% str

-82.5% dur 

Result vs Fossilized: 4614

 

-10% str

-80% dur

Result vs Fossilized: 2487

 

-10% str

-82.5% dur

Result vs Fossilized: 2762

 

I don't have quite the same configuration available to me that you do but this data should be usable.  I'm not seeing reduced damage with a rounded duration.  Let us know how repeat tests go.

Edited December 12, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[CitizenV]

your a bit late on that, they did stealth nerf her. Problem is most people won't notice until is too late =/

Are you talking about this thread which didn't take into account the invisible reduced damage tick (that PsycloneM pointed out on the 2nd page)? The problem isn't that people don't notice nerfs until it's too late, it's that they don't notice the actual mechanics before it's too late :). The invisible reduced damage tick has been around since Miasma was first changed and is even noted on Miasma's wiki page.

 

I don't have quite the same configuration available to me that you do but this data should be usable.  I'm not seeing reduced damage with a rounded duration.  Let us know how repeat tests go.

Is this taking account reduced damage ticks?

 

 

 

Darzk's claim may be true though. He's actually taking into account the reduced damage tick. Testing it can be hard though since it's invisible.

Here are my results on Phorid, my favorite Miasma testing body. No Power Strength mods, just varying Power Duration with Fleeting Expertise and Chlora.

 

(excuse the sloppy image; I got lazy)

 

From top to bottom:

-50% Power Duration: ~38px of damage (3x 1269)

-55% Power Duration: ~39px of damage (2x 1335 + reduced damage tick)

-65% Power Duration: ~43 px of damage (2x 1668 + reduced damage tick)

 

I'm not sure what the theoretical damage would have been due to his tiny amount of Ferrite armor, but it seems like the reduced damage ticks are still the same as before? -55% and -65% seemingly had greater damage than -50%, i.e. no damage loss.

Edited January 4, 2015 by CitizenV

[Darzk]

From top to bottom:

-50% Power Duration: ~38px of damage (3x 1269)

-55% Power Duration: ~39px of damage (2x 1335 + reduced damage tick)

-65% Power Duration: ~43 px of damage (2x 1668 + reduced damage tick)

A level 17 Phorid has 41 Ferrite armor, which is 10.25 armor against Corrosive which gets +75% damage to him. Infested Sinew is neutral, thank god.

 

Assuming no power strength, we should see:

-50% duration = 750 base per tick *1.75 =1312.5 / (310.25/300) = 1269 damage, exactly what you observed.

-55% duration = 833.33 base tick * 1.75 = 1458.33/(310.25/300) = 1410 damage, 5.6% more than you observed

-65% duration = 1071.43 base tick * 1.75 = 1875 / (310.25/300) = 1813 damage, 8.7% more than you observed

 

Yes, reducing the duration still increases the overall damage of Miasma. Just not as much as it used to. Something in the formula has changed to reduce the overall impact, and it gets worse as you reduce the duration more and more. I was seeing -37% damage at a full -92.5% duration.

[CitizenV]

Thanks for the theoretical calculations. After the Damage 2.0 change, I never had time to fully go through it.

 

I have another theory. Prior to the Miasma change, Chlora used to work weirdly with damage calculations due to how it affected duration in the calculations. The -55% and -65% in the above test both used Chlora.

 

I just ran another test with -60% Fleeting Expertise and no Chlora. It did 1586x2 + reduced damage tick, which matches the theoretical damage if I'm correct. It seems like Chlora is once again affecting the duration weirdly?

Edited January 4, 2015 by CitizenV

[CitizenV]

Edit: Considering all the other helmets have negative multipliers rather than additive I'm wondering if this was actually a change, or we all just calculated duration with Chlora wrong and never noticed the discrepancy. 

 

I think this is the case, ehe. I've always been using it additively, but looking back at old datamined stuff, it was multiplicative since at least ~U11.6. That's a big whoops!

 

EDIT: Quick test with Molt confirms it. Now I have to go back and check my Regenerative Molt numbers :/.

Edited January 4, 2015 by CitizenV