Kohm Ammo Consumption Is Completely Insane

[AlienOvermind]

What's the point in 1200 ammo pool, when you can shoot it all in several seconds and ammo pickups are still the same 10 bullets per item. And please, don't say: "Just put a Mutator". This is not a viable solution for two reasons:

1) Mutators should be an option. If a weapon's ammo in unmanagable without a mutator, then a weapon is broken.

2) Kohm is not powerful enough to waste a slot for mutator.

 

Suggested solution:

- make any shot cost 1 (one) unit of shotgun ammo;

- give it 30 rounds per magazine;

- limit maximum ammo at 240 rounds.

 

15.7 Update:

Judging by numbers only, Kohm is really powerful right now. After a wind-up it should put huge burst damage. But. The main (and honestly the only) problem is still present. Now Kohm consume 4 rounds per fully-charged shot. What does tha mean? It means you can can fire it about twice as long as pre-buff Kohm, but you pretty much can not restore your ammo pool with pickups. I.e. the problem remains.

Edited December 16, 2014 by AlienOvermind

[OkamiMilo]

Yes ,please this wep burns so much ammo. This wep NEEDS  a nerf.

Edited December 14, 2014 by OkamiMilo

[NoeleVeerod]

This weapon is completely insane as a whole, not just ammo (in)efficiency.
 

It's not even good as an excuse for mastery fodder. The only thing this weapon inspires me is frustration.

[VKhaun]

3) Mutators don't work while a weapon is on your back, only while equipped.

4) If they fixed the ammo economy it would still not function anything like a shotgun...

 

IMHO it should be reversed. Have it fire at max speed and multishot then start and ramp down. The ramp down does not reset instantly, so it would be kind of like an overheat drawback that you'd have to let it calm down. The more shotgun-like you use it, the better it would be. The more LMG-like you use it, the less often you could use it. Allowing the weapon to 'cool off' and return to max speed/multishot would help with ammo since you'd be picking it up even though you weren't firing and are actively trying to fire less to keep your bonus.

[AlphaSierraMike]

Or....Innate guaranteed multishot (100%, 200% etc) each bullet as it is, and each trigger pull shoots out half the current round consumption, or whatever the inverse of the multishot so that it shoots out the same amount of pellets each trigger pull.

 

Makes it more deadly with how it adds a bullet as it fires, while basically doubling it's mag capacity and ammo reserve compared to now.

[AlienOvermind]

Or....Innate guaranteed multishot (100%, 200% etc) each bullet as it is, and each trigger pull shoots out half the current round consumption, or whatever the inverse of the multishot so that it shoots out the same amount of pellets each trigger pull.

 

Makes it more deadly with how it adds a bullet as it fires, while basically doubling it's mag capacity and ammo reserve compared to now.

It doesn't need any additional mechanics. If we cast aside it's ammo problems it's a good weapon with it's own pros and cons.

Kohm is actually deadly. I believe it can deal more damage, than a Boar Prime, but — Boar is effective right away and Kohm needs a wind-up, and that wind-up is pretty long.

It has large pellet spread and travetime, but it's is compensated by innate punchthrough and no damage fall off.

 

Overall it would be fine weapon, if only we could use it longer, than a several seconds per mission.

Edited December 14, 2014 by AlienOvermind

[AlphaSierraMike]

It doesn't need any additional mechanics. If we cast aside it's ammo problems it's a good weapon with it's own pros and cons.

Kohm is actually deadly. I believe it can deal more damage, than a Boar Prime, but — Boar is effective right away and Kohm needs a wind-up, and that wind-up is pretty long.

It has large pellet spread and travetime, but it's is compensated by innate punchthrough and no damage fall off.

 

Overall it would be fine weapon, if only we could use it longer, than a several seconds per mission.

From what I've heard, it's the combination of ammo consumption and that ammo pickup, even with mutation cannot keep up with the usage. So i dunno, this was the first idea that came into my head to basically double ammo pickup as well.

[Kalenath]

It doesn't need any additional mechanics. If we cast aside it's ammo problems it's a good weapon with it's own pros and cons.

Kohm is actually deadly. I believe it can deal more damage, than a Boar Prime, but — Boar is effective right away and Kohm needs a wind-up, and that wind-up is pretty long.

It has large pellet spread and travetime, but it's is compensated by innate punchthrough and no damage fall off.

 

Overall it would be fine weapon, if only we could use it longer, than a several seconds per mission.

 

Kind of like a shotgun minigun.

 

Takes time to spool up, but when it DOES... OMG!

 

And yes, miniguns burn through ammo like nobody's business too. My dad worked on them in the US Army.

 

'One truck to carry the gun and crew. SEVEN trucks to carry ammo to fire it for two minutes.'

 

I like the accuracy and the innate punch through, but I rarely find crowds big enough to justify using it. When I do though... I LIKE IT!

Edited December 14, 2014 by Kalenath

[dummifighter]

Yes ,please this wep burns so much ammo. This wep NEEDS  a nerf Buff.

Fixed it  :p

Edited December 14, 2014 by dummifighter

[Renegade343]

Kind of like a shotgun minigun.

Problem is, we do not have those boxes of ammo that those WWII soldiers always lug to LMG gunners in movies in the game. 

 

I mean, even if it can used only once per mission to refill the Kohm, at least it would be bearable (not to say that it is not fun to play with though). 

[Kalenath]

Problem is, we do not have those boxes of ammo that those WWII soldiers always lug to LMG gunners in movies in the game. 

 

I mean, even if it can used only once per mission to refill the Kohm, at least it would be bearable (not to say that it is not fun to play with though). 

 

True.

 

I usually only use it once or twice per mission, but OMG I LIKE it when I do.

 

It DOES need some kind of ammo fix. I agree that the way it is now is not that great. Two uses per mission is just not justified no matter HOW gun-gasm you feel when using it.

[matrixEXO]

Well... mutation AND scavenger. Because this weapon was made around it. Oh, and Nekros plus Infested missions. It's simply designed to integrate those mods into it's weapon so... yeah. Anyway, we all understand that Mutations are optional but DE wanted to develop a weapon where you actually need them to see it's true potential.

[matrixEXO]

Problem is, we do not have those boxes of ammo that those WWII soldiers always lug to LMG gunners in movies in the game. 

 

I mean, even if it can used only once per mission to refill the Kohm, at least it would be bearable (not to say that it is not fun to play with though). 

Actually, I do. And many, if not all, old timers who knew of the pre-plate items do. It's called Shotgun Ammo Boxes. But it only restores max ammo to the one using it so yeah... And it's not obtainable anymore.

 

EDIT: Just wanted to put the word out is all.

Edited December 14, 2014 by matrixEXO

[Renegade343]

Well... mutation AND scavenger. Because this weapon was made around it. Oh, and Nekros plus Infested missions. It's simply designed to integrate those mods into it's weapon so... yeah. Anyway, we all understand that Mutations are optional but DE wanted to develop a weapon where you actually need them to see it's true potential.

Even those two still sometimes struggle to refill up the ammo pool. 

 

I mean, one shotgun ammo equals one full trigger press (at maximum windup). Even with Shotgun Scavenger, that is around 2.5 trigger presses at maximum windup (of course, you could tell everyone else in your cell to use Shotgun Scavenger, but that might come off as a bit selfish if you are the only one using the Kohm). 

[Kalenath]

But people do not want to be pushed into cookie cutter builds, unless THEY can force OTHERS into THEIR cookie cutter builds.

 

It is a COOL weapon and it is UNPARALLELLED for the time you CAN fire it.

 

But right now? I can fire it maybe twice per mission. And that is WITH Shotgun Scavenger maxxed and Shotgun Ammo Mutation maxxed.

 

There is a problem with the ammo.

 

But not with the rest of the gun.

[Renegade343]

Actually, I do. And many, if not all, old timers who knew of the pre-plate items do. It's called Shotgun Ammo Boxes. But it only restores max ammo to the one using it so yeah... And it's not obtainable anymore.

 

EDIT: Just wanted to put the word out is all.

Thing is, the new players are not going to see it appearing anytime soon. 

 

And you forgot another one: Omni Ammo Boxes. Those things were the king of refilling Primary and Secondary weapons on the run. And they come cheap too. 

[Kalenath]

Thing is, the new players are not going to see it appearing anytime soon. 

 

And you forgot another one: Omni Ammo Boxes. Those things were the king of refilling Primary and Secondary weapons on the run. And they come cheap too. 

 

I still have 50 of those lol, I refuse to use the old boxes and heals except for clan ops.

[Renegade343]

I still have 50 of those lol, I refuse to use the old boxes and heals except for clan ops.

I am now just stockpiling Health Restores like no tomorrow (from scanning every plant on Earth). 

 

Because Health plates are not going to go to well soon, with all the enemies forcing players to move. And besides, Health Restores restore all health in one button press. 

[AlienOvermind]

From what I've heard, it's the combination of ammo consumption and that ammo pickup, even with mutation cannot keep up with the usage. So i dunno, this was the first idea that came into my head to basically double ammo pickup as well.

After a wind-up it consumes 10 times more ammo, than a normal shotgun. So, if we give more ammo on pickups, then it should be not 20 (i.e. double value), but 100 rounds per pickup.

[matrixEXO]

After a wind-up it consumes 10 times more ammo, than a normal shotgun. So, if we give more ammo on pickups, then it should be not 20 (i.e. double value), but 100 rounds per pickup.

Nah, it should be 20 at most. It's issue is makes it's strong point more apparent anyway. Having 100 ammo per pickup is tantamount to saying you just want infinite ammo (because you'd likely get more ammo pickup than per kill at that rate).

[xmegarockx]

this weapon cant be filled faster even with restores ammunitions is funny

[AlienOvermind]

Nah, it should be 20 at most. It's issue is makes it's strong point more apparent anyway. Having 100 ammo per pickup is tantamount to saying you just want infinite ammo (because you'd likely get more ammo pickup than per kill at that rate).

You're wrong. I take Boar Prime as a model here, cuz it's full-auto and fast-firing shotgun like Kohm. It fires 1 roung per shot, has maximum 120 rounds and pickups give it 10 rounds. Kohm is basically multiplied by 10. It takes 10 rounds per shot after a wind-up (and shots before a windup are just wasted shots anyway) and has maximum 1200 ammo. So, if you apply same logic, ammo pickups should also give normal amount multiplied by 10. I.e. 100 rounds.

 

So, if you just play with Boar Prime a little you should get an impression how Kohm would feel ammo-wise if pickups would give it 100 rounds.

Edited December 14, 2014 by AlienOvermind

[matrixEXO]

I take Boar Prime as a model here, cuz it's full-auto and fast-firing shotgun like Kohm.

You do know you are comparing a Prime weapon with a non-Prime weapon right?

 

I think you might want to try using the Boar (non-Prime) instead.

 

Also, shots before maximum windup are never wasted shots unless you deliberately not shoot them at the enemy. They total up to 15 bolts. That's 5 more than the maximum value of 10 shots.

[AlienOvermind]

You do know you are comparing a Prime weapon with a non-Prime weapon right?

 

I think you might want to try using the Boar (non-Prime) instead.

 

Also, shots before maximum windup are never wasted shots unless you deliberately not shoot them at the enemy. They total up to 15 bolts. That's 5 more than the maximum value of 10 shots.

Yeah, I compare Prime and non-Prime weapons, so what? First, we have a lot of top-tier non-Prime weapons and a lot of weak and underwhelming Prime weapons. Second I compare ammo consumption only, I fail to understand why Prime or non-Prime should matter here. Third, I could use normal Boar for comparsion, all my words would still be valid — the only reason I named Boar Prime is because you cannot get Boar anymore (aside from overpriced Rhino pack).

 

As for gimped shots — they not completely wasted, that's true. But those first shots are so weak, that you almost always have to shoot at least 3-4 times to kill a single enemy.

Edited December 14, 2014 by AlienOvermind

[AlienOvermind]

Updated my first post with 15.7 numbers.

TL;DR Ammo effieciency is still bad.