Void Drop Tables' Rotation C Was Stealth Nerfed, Please Raise Awareness Of This Issue

[UltimateSpinDash]

On another note, I know that DE largely waved off this issue bit I do believe there will be a resolution to it. Rebecca posted today that they're looking at moving Void items across the star map. How they implement it, we'll have to wait and see.

I think you mean this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/390550-why-does-the-void-need-to-have-it-all/?p=4327518#entry4327518

[Venus-Venera]

I think you mean this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/390550-why-does-the-void-need-to-have-it-all/?p=4327518#entry4327518

lex, latron and mag prime will drop in the star map too? ;)

i bet useful primes will be even more rare to compensate this

Edited January 28, 2015 by fuffi2milka

[HuzzelMuzzel]

I think you mean this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/390550-why-does-the-void-need-to-have-it-all/?p=4327518#entry4327518

 i don't believe this will fix the rng-grind-pain. just other tilesets where you can get your daily frustration. As long there enough kids who will pay hundreds of dollars for prime access they won't change the drop tables. Maybe this decision are not made by the devs but the sales department.

 

same. i saw very few friends online in last weeks. we farm only rep and thats it. i bought all mods from 2 syndicates and don't bother go log in anymore

i played 2 days 8-10 hours each and got only trash in voids. (but many forma bps...)

i could buy new content but what the point to play the game then.

 

It is even useless to login for rep farm, if your next syndicate rank is blocked by a super rare prime part.

[UltimateSpinDash]

lex, latron and mag prime will drop in the star map too? ;)

i bet useful primes will be even more rare to compensate this

Could you tell me where you get that from? Cuz I don't see anything in that thread FROM DE STAFF that says anything outside of "We are discussing this internally".

 

 i don't believe this will fix the rng-grind-pain. just other tilesets where you can get your daily frustration. As long there enough kids who will pay hundreds of dollars for prime access they won't change the drop tables. Maybe this decision are not made by the devs but the sales department.

 

It is even useless to login for rep farm, if your next syndicate rank is blocked by a super rare prime part.

Yes, supporting the developers is something only kids do.

Prime Access stuff can be rare, and if it wasn't, there would be no incentive to get PA (you can also get cheap plat with the 50%/75% discounts) at all. Like it or not, but those Prime Access sales keep this game running and in development.

What annoys me more is the "grind to be able to grind". T3 keys for example can only be reliably farmed on high level defense (NOT INFESTED, those have their own droptable), don't drop guaranteed (unlike in non-void Survival / Excavation) and on rotation C (versus B). Also, T3 Sabotage is not among those keys.

Unfortunately most people don't know this because the game does not tell you what node is eligible for which drops. Which makes it difficult up to impossible to farm T3 keys in public matches, since everyone leaves at 5,10 or 15.

 

Regarding Syndicates, I see what you mean. Arbiters need a Bo Prime Handle for rank 4. I haven't seen one of those drop myself AT ALL. I had to buy (relatively cheap, but still) it from a friend who was with Red Veil and could run T4 Exterminates all the time (I farmed with him, but was not present when the thing dropped).

For something that was supposed to be without RNG, this is a progression stopper. I would say however that Syndicates are RNG-free aside from that and the medaillons, which are a bonus anyway.

[HuzzelMuzzel]

Yes, supporting the developers is something only kids do.

Prime Access stuff can be rare, and if it wasn't, there would be no incentive to get PA (you can also get cheap plat with the 50%/75% discounts) at all. Like it or not, but those Prime Access sales keep this game running and in development.

 

Just to make it clear: I am not against selling ingame items for real money. Thats the way how f2p is working. But making players frustrated so they spend their money is a bad business model. If a game brings me a good experience, i will give my money generously. DE relies on few players, which are willing to spend over 100,- dollars for a prime acces. If this few players find a another game where they spend their money, warframe will be gone. Look at the successful f2p games and how much you pay there.

[UltimateSpinDash]

Just to make it clear: I am not against selling ingame items for real money. Thats the way how f2p is working. But making players frustrated so they spend their money is a bad business model. If a game brings me a good experience, i will give my money generously. DE relies on few players, which are willing to spend over 100,- dollars for a prime acces. If this few players find a another game where they spend their money, warframe will be gone. Look at the successful f2p games and how much you pay there.

I agree. F2Ps have to walk a thin line between rewarding players who spend money and punishing those who don't.

From what I heard, Warframe used to be A LOT less grindy in closed beta. I would agree, but I started before Damage 2.0 came out and didn't really play the game seriously until U13, so my knowledge is limited.

DE has a tendency to overshot when it comes to balance (ironically thats the purpose of the Tenno). At first everything was to easy to get, now it goes into the "hard" (it's not really difficult, just tedious) area.

 

All this said, I believe Warframe does not rely too much on whales (I'm pretty sure I can count myself to those) but also on people who don't put that much money into the game.

Edited January 28, 2015 by UltimateSpinDash

[Venus-Venera]

Just to make it clear: I am not against selling ingame items for real money. Thats the way how f2p is working. But making players frustrated so they spend their money is a bad business model. If a game brings me a good experience, i will give my money generously. DE relies on few players, which are willing to spend over 100,- dollars for a prime acces. If this few players find a another game where they spend their money, warframe will be gone. Look at the successful f2p games and how much you pay there.

this doesn't work here. cosmetics sells good in pvp games where players have fun while playing. 

but pve content is boring in a lot of games. its super boring here. so they have to sell content and boosters to make grind less boring.

[plznohurtme]

I agree. F2Ps have to walk a thin line between rewarding players who spend money and punishing those who don't.

From what I heard, Warframe used to be A LOT less grindy in closed beta. I would agree, but I started before Damage 2.0 came out and didn't really play the game seriously until U13, so my knowledge is limited.

DE has a tendency to overshot when it comes to balance (ironically thats the purpose of the Tenno). At first everything was to easy to get, now it goes into the "hard" (it's not really difficult, just tedious) area.

 

All this said, I believe Warframe does not rely too much on whales (I'm pretty sure I can count myself to those) but also on people who don't put that much money into the game.

 

Warframe has always been grindy, but you weren't grinding for specific pieces of items to make them... it was grinding to get materials and mods were all RNG at the time.  The biggest problem DE faces is that they are still using a weighted drop system which is thrown into a worse loop by having materials thrown in with it.  

 

At this point I feel like they should consider having separate drop tables entirely so you get materials of some sort (cells/cores/forma/other rare materials) along with a prime part.  At the same time they don't seem to particularly care about how punishing the loot system is so it pretty much just is.  Look at Derelict having t1/2 keys as rewards for Survival and Defense when they scale faster than Voids do.

 

I don't care about getting the new stuff quickly, but the whole system is randomly stacked against certain pieces and it's made worse by RNG acquisition of keys which in turn limits your attempts to begin with.  The whole thing is just one giant cluster F*** that they could work on, but have merely added to since late 2013.

[(PSN)Bowjangelz]

I appreciate that there may be a chance of some greater rewards after 40 min/wave40/etc. But I would still feel better if there were some discussion about forma bp's and R5's dropping as a rotation C reward in T4 missions. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think 5 R5's used to be a possible T4 defense reward in rotation C...but I get it a lot now. I like R5's, but rotation C is not a good place for them. 

 

Please DE, better rewards for longer missions would be a cool idea, but what people posting on this thread are looking for is for at least some of the rotation C nerf to be backed off. If you had to nerf it, please at least re-balance the nerf so it's not so drastic. 

 

Edit: added:

 

If you won't change the diluted drop tables, please find a way to reduce the key grind. Part of why players get so burned out is that we have to grind before we grind by farming for keys.

Edited January 29, 2015 by (PS4)Bowjangelz

[(PSN)TheYetiMan22]

If you won't change the diluted drop tables, please find a way to reduce the key grind. Part of why players get so burned out is that we have to grind before we grind by farming for keys.

 

This

[Feanor]

today after at least 40 T3 survival keys all 40min runs, almost a month of grind, the nova prime chassis have droped

DE need to find a way to "fix" this drop table, 1 month to find a prime part is ridiculous

if stay this way the next prime gear will be even harder to find

[cyrus106]

This

Key farming is the reason I took a 3 month break a while back. Keyfarming is physically painful

[plznohurtme]

Key farming is the reason I took a 3 month break a while back. Keyfarming is physically painful

 

It wouldn't be so bad if you were farming key tiers, but the added rng of getting the right mission key just kills it for me.  I was able to justify some key farming for solo lvling weapons and getting oxium, but once the drop rates were buffed it simply hasn't mattered.

[MaverickZero]

It wouldn't be so bad if you were farming key tiers, but the added rng of getting the right mission key just kills it for me.  I was able to justify some key farming for solo lvling weapons and getting oxium, but once the drop rates were buffed it simply hasn't mattered.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/380522-void-key-acquisition/#entry4194705

[Feanor]

now its the vasto prime BP, have done it 6 T4 survival 40min+ e no BP

here we go again

[UltimateSpinDash]

now its the vasto prime BP, have done it 6 T4 survival 40min+ e no BP

here we go again

I have seen five or so of them since the Access dropped, even gave a few to the Void Trader. It's about as rare as Loki Prime Helmet I believe.

[CheetoDave]

Yeah, this ninja change is pretty awful. 20 minute T4 survival run netted us 15 R5's and a forma blueprint. We didn't get our first prime part until 30 minutes in, but got lucky with a rotation C drop at 40 minutes.

That's a lot of grinding for a prime part I didn't even need.

Now, if we could turn R5's into credits without having to sell them for platinum first, that'd be slightly less terrible.

[UltimateSpinDash]

Yeah, this ninja change is pretty awful. 20 minute T4 survival run netted us 15 R5's and a forma blueprint. We didn't get our first prime part until 30 minutes in, but got lucky with a rotation C drop at 40 minutes.

That's a lot of grinding for a prime part I didn't even need.

Now, if we could turn R5's into credits without having to sell them for platinum first, that'd be slightly less terrible.

Why would you want to sell R5s with all those R10 mods coming?

But yeah, that's pretty awful.

[Clideb50]

The void tables could use some TLC. A couple friends of mine have run about 25 t4 survival missions in the last month looking for a Loki Prime helmet. They stay for 20 minutes so only one shot at rotation C, but there's very little point to staying beyond that point. They have seen a lot of mag prime chassis, Braton Prime blueprints, and other things, but not a single Loki Prime bit. Either they have really really bad luck, or that helmet has a  single digit drop chance.

[plznohurtme]

The void tables could use some TLC. A couple friends of mine have run about 25 t4 survival missions in the last month looking for a Loki Prime helmet. They stay for 20 minutes so only one shot at rotation C, but there's very little point to staying beyond that point. They have seen a lot of mag prime chassis, Braton Prime blueprints, and other things, but not a single Loki Prime bit. Either they have really really bad luck, or that helmet has a  single digit drop chance.

 

The way loot works is weighted drops in pools: Common, Uncommon and Rare and each of these pools has a certain percentage chance of the drop coming from them and then all of the items in that pool have an equal chance of dropping.  When it's just Common and Uncommon it's ~77.5% Common and ~22.5% Uncommon (typically most voids have this structure) and when it's all 3 it is ~76% Common ~22% Uncommon ~2% Rare.  Loki Prime bit from T4Surv is Uncommon.

Edited February 4, 2015 by plznohurtme

[UltimateSpinDash]

The way loot works is weighted drops in pools: Common, Uncommon and Rare and each of these pools has a certain percentage chance of the drop coming from them and then all of the items in that pool have an equal chance of dropping.  When it's just Common and Uncommon it's ~77.5% Common and ~22.5% Uncommon (typically most voids have this structure) and when it's all 3 it is ~76% Common ~22% Uncommon ~2% Rare.  Loki Prime bit from T4Surv is Uncommon.

Those percentages are definetely off, but yeah... I do a lot of  T4 Survs, actually gave Loki Helmets to the Trader. Just keep trying, the good thing about T4 Surv is that you at least get cores.

 

Also, stay 40 minutes to save keys.

[plznohurtme]

Those percentages are definetely off, but yeah... I do a lot of  T4 Survs, actually gave Loki Helmets to the Trader. Just keep trying, the good thing about T4 Surv is that you at least get cores.

 

Also, stay 40 minutes to save keys.

 

Promise you the percentages are completely accurate from the hard evidence available.

[UltimateSpinDash]

Promise you the percentages are completely accurate from the hard evidence available.

I know that hard "evidence".

 

Just noticed that you just added all the probabilities together, which irritated me. Also, there doesn't seem to be that much that is classified as "rare" at all when it comes to void, the only thing this applies to seems to be completed Forma.

[cyrus106]

I'm honestly curious what their solution for this is, since it doesnt appear they want to just revert the nerf

[ngrazer]

I'm honestly curious what their solution for this is, since it doesnt appear they want to just revert the nerf

A friend of mine told me that during the stream they were saying something about buffing rare items drops after first C, but I dunno if this is true or not since I haven't watched the stream.