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[DE]Rebecca

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And this is where you get it wrong.

Large Energy Refill, all 200 of them on a mission. And 200 Medium Refills

You can start spawning them before you start 30 seconds timer.

 

There were nothing outside of Warframe that caused 2kkk points, time was going slower after a some amount of power uses even on good PC.

I am glad it got fixed.

 

And this event is still benefits from spamming powers and using all energy refills you have, hope this will get fixed. Powers should not damage core.

 

Energy cost was not the issue, exploiting lag was. The fact remains, even with maximized duration, there is a finite number of times you can stack Thumper on something that can only be damaged for 30 seconds. Even doubled to 16 stacks per squadmate, or even 32, 64, etc, the total will still be much less than 3 billion. 

also, this:

 

 

The restores pulse at a set rate, after roughly 15 are down your first placed will disappear, not to the amount of time it takes to place. You are supposed to only have a 30 second window. doesn't matter if you take the full 200, you'll only get the effect of at most 30. being generous. which would severally lower DPS. If we add 50-100 million more to his calculations the amount of damage that was dealt is still far far too high

Edited by DrMeowmix
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see below.

Reading entire posts is usually a good thing to do before making statements like that. The end result was 117million theoretical possible damage. That is over 25x less than what Ten Tenno claimed was a legitimate score of 3 billion. Name an Archwing weapon that can do 25x more sustained DPS than Imperator, and then get back to me.

 

In any case, your math is awful. Main thing was missed in the abilities damage calculation. Yep, that's Recasting.

 

1,800x30=MTCD(maximum Thumper core damage)

MTCD=54,000

Let's go with 8 thumpers per squadmate, so 32 total

54,000x32=TTD(total Thumper damage)

Rly?

And now we'll add here MORE recasts, not 8.

 

54k*4*(Big number, for example 8000)= 1 728 000 000

and x5 multiplier = 1 728 000 000 * 5 = 8 640 000 000 = 8.6 Billion.

 

why 8000 recasts?

200 Large energy restores * 4 = 320 000 Energy.

200 Medium * 4 = 160 000 Energy.

480 000 Energy / Thrumper cost = 8727 Casts.

 

Thrumpers havent cast time, so we can spam them.

 

So theoretical possible damage >9 оr even 10 Billions.

 

However, they need nice devices and many many energy restores...

 

Before last update, time was slowed with low FPS , so that they were able to make an unlimited number of castes. And that's not exploit. Just game feature, which is already fixed.

 

So stop whining and try to use brain.

 

Best solution - make core invulnerable to abilities.

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Really? No one in our clan has cheated and we were on 2nd place. Now we are 9th because everyone is tired. That would have been the first trophy for our clan..  :( 

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Before last update, time was slowed with low FPS , so that they were able to make an unlimited number of castes. And that's not exploit. Just game feature, which is already fixed.

 

Bug =/= feature

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In any case, your math is awful. Main thing was missed in the abilities damage calculation. Yep, that's Recasting.

 

1,800x30=MTCD(maximum Thumper core damage)

MTCD=54,000

Let's go with 8 thumpers per squadmate, so 32 total

54,000x32=TTD(total Thumper damage)

Rly?

And now we'll add here MORE recasts, not 8.

 

54k*4*(Big number, for example 8000)= 1 728 000 000

and x5 multiplier = 1 728 000 000 * 5 = 8 640 000 000 = 8.6 Billion.

 

why 8000 recasts?

200 Large energy restores * 4 = 320 000 Energy.

200 Medium * 4 = 160 000 Energy.

480 000 Energy / Thrumper cost = 8727 Casts.

 

Thrumpers havent cast time, so we can spam them.

 

So theoretical possible damage >9 оr even 10 Billions.

 

However, they need nice devices and many many energy restores...

 

Before last update, time was slowed with low FPS , so that they were able to make an unlimited number of castes. And that's not exploit. Just game feature, which is already fixed.

 

So stop whining and try to use brain.

 

Best solution - make core invulnerable to abilities.

you misunderstand, the numbers I gave for the ability usage imply recasting. Allow me to reiterate

Thumper, with maximum powerstrength, does 600 damage per missile, at 3 missiles a second. 600x3=1800 damage PER THUMPER STACK PER SECOND. We are also running with the assumption that every thumper missile from every thumper stack damages the core, and the core is vulnerable for 30 seconds, therefore, 1800x30=Total damage PER THUMPER STACK. Total damage PER THUMPER STACK=54K.

 

Each player puts x stacks of Thumper on the core. I used x=8, you used x=8000(impossible due to ability duration). Explain how that's bad math?

 

And this is where you prove my point. 8,000 Thumper stacks? Even with a hotkey, there is no way you're going to get 8,000 thumper stacks per player without the use of an auto macro. Using an auto macro alone is against the rules. Using an auto macro AND exploiting lag is VERY against the rules. Try again.

Edited by DrMeowmix
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So players shouldn't use abilities that can decrease FPS? And abort missions, cuz their mission time is longer than real 30 sec? Or stop spamming and wait?

 

Sounds bad.

 

without the use of an auto macro.

 

WUT? When auto macro become illegal? Even DE  have stated in the past that macros are allowed

Edited by mirei98
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Really? No one in our clan has cheated and we were on 2nd place. Now we are 9th because everyone is tired. That would have been the first trophy for our clan..  :( 

Event lasts 2 weeks. If you were even going to hold that place to begin with, before another clan overtook you, you could still work your way back.

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So I take it the core shouldn't be counting damage when the shields are up? I did a run on the newest fomorian was just mindlessly shooting it while waiting for the other players. Finally popped the disruptor and left with 1188516 points, I tested this again with the earth one and got a similar score, before I found out about this my score was under the amount to reward that 50k for earth and I am running an unpotatoed imperator and I'm assuming it should only be counting the damaged we deal when the shield is down yes? If so then that should probably get patched.

Edited by AbstractLemons
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So players shouldn't use abilities that can decrease FPS? And abort missions, cuz their mission time is longer than real 30 sec? Or stop spamming and wait?

 

Sounds bad.

 

without the use of an auto macro.

 

WUT? When auto macro become illegal? Even DE  have stated in the past that macros are allowed

Let me clarify, macros are ok, hotkeys are ok. Using the scroll wheel for firing semi auto weapons is ok.

 

Programs that press a button really really fast for you without any physical action on your part (ie automacros) are not.

Edited by DrMeowmix
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I don't think it's fair to be this hostile towards them. It may have been an exploit but exploits are hard to find, and for that they should be at least realized as a form of "tester" -- finding the bugs, and having them fixed. I do not feel like they should be considered "cheaters." Just people who found their own way to succeed. So let's not have such extreme hate towards them, and give them their own respect.

 

Apparently it is fair to be hostile towards them since the topic is being closely monitored by mods and we still have pages of pitchforks and torches. Just stating the obvious.

I'm not sure why they leave this kind of topics open to be fair since this was just an announcement.

Edited by Ayraclus
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So players shouldn't use abilities that can decrease FPS? And abort missions, cuz their mission time is longer than real 30 sec? Or stop spamming and wait?

 

Sounds bad.

 

without the use of an auto macro.

 

WUT? When auto macro become illegal? Even DE  have stated in the past that macros are allowed

Oh please, you knew full well what was going to happen when the siege time went past the thirty second mark. Nobody went "Hey guys, I think this should have expired by now, what's going on?". It's not a question of whether or not people used exploits to artificially inflate their score; we know you did. The math is just another nail in the hypothetical coffin. Icing on the cake, overkill, beating a dead horse. Pretty much everyone knows who cheated and how they did it at this point. 

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We will certainly be checking in as a team and discussing how to deal with this issue (as event blunders seem par for the course), but please also be aware it is the Saturday of the Holiday weekend and we are a little on the under-manned presently, resulting in a more delayed decision making process than usual. I understand not everyone many sympathize with that, but it's the truth. 

 

That's fair.  Everyone should be able to enjoy their holidays.

 

How about all the exploiting clans be forced to display a giant golden turd in their dojo for a period of one year?

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Brb finding random people ingame with a S#&$ty computer who even lag when we don't use energy restore.

 

Oh wait, people will call us "exploiters" then

 

Why is everyone still crying?Leaderboards have been resetted.

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So I take it the core shouldn't be counting damage when the shields are up? I did a run on the newest fomorian was just mindlessly shooting it while waiting for the other players. Finally popped the disruptor and left with 1188516 points, I tested this again with the earth one and got a similar score, before I found out about this my score was under the amount to reward that 50k for earth and I am running an unpotatoed imperator and I'm assuming it should only be counting the damaged we deal when the shield is down yes? If so then that should probably get patched.

 

Did u notice the nodes? The node multiplier on damage is applied after the timer runs out, if I'm not mistaken.

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Were they supposed to know this was not intended?

That is part of what this comes down to:

Can you say beyond a a single doubt that they knew they were not supposed to be doing that?

 

if the 30s timer lasted more than 30s.. i don't think it would take a genius to realize that this was not intended.

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Brb finding random people ingame with a S#&$ty computer who even lag when we don't use energy restore.

 

Oh wait, people will call us "exploiters" then

 

Why is everyone still crying?Leaderboards have been resetted.

.-KG-..-RaguLab-.

Score of 347 million on scoreboard, check the first page.

 

Yeah, you can shut up about a laggy computer. It's clear it was intentional

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You have 30 seconds to attack the nodes and cores in a Balor Fomorian mission, so:

 

 

The "Exploit" involved using what DE gave you. By spamming enough thumpers it would cause so much frame drop that your 30 second timer would be practically broken and could potentially extend your 30 second timer to upwards of 10, 20, 30 minutes or even an hour in some cases. So if you take that into account it would make up for the missing damage. Not to mention there was typically 30-40 thumpers per person on it before you would start damaging the core.

The "exploit" isn't a bannable offense because it was unintended and just a plain oversight.

Edited by -CdG-Grav
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The bugs had been reported way before the event started.

Archwings, especially the skills, still need fixing and balancing.

 

As for the Leaderboard, it's a gamble, either you go all legit and hope for DE to wipe it or have them not do so and lose hopelessly to exploiters - or you take the cake and push it as far as possible in order to have them fix it. (kudos to -10no-)

 

From my EGT experience, 9/10 World Events 1st place, we succeed because we fully commit.

Exploit or not - we own the Mountain Clan Tier fair and square, have so and will so.

 

Game's still in beta for a reason, start banning ppl now and those exploits wont make it to DE so they can fix them.

I see how this is a thin line to walk, DE we appreciate your efforts, it's a pity contacting the big event clans beforehand in order to avoid this kind of drama could give them the advantage once the events start.

Edited by FatalionPanic-EGT-
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The "Exploit" involved using what DE gave you. By spamming enough thumpers it would cause so much frame drop that your 30 second timer would be practically broken and could potentially extend your 30 second timer to upwards of 10, 20, 30 minutes or even an hour in some cases. So if you take that into account it would make up for the missing damage. Not to mention there was typically 30-40 thumpers on it before you would start damaging the core.

The "exploit" isn't a bannable offense because it was unintended and just a plain oversight.

I'm going to interject here. Knowingly exploiting a latency issue without reporting it to get ahead in an event is a downright scummy thing to do no matter what way you slice it. In many games it IS a bannable offense, and while I don't think Warframe is an exception, even if that were the case, I believe recompense is due from those who knowingly abused this "oversight". 

 

The honorable thing to do would have been to report it immediately after it was discovered and then stay the hell away from it. Many clans took the low road instead, and used it to fluff up their clan's score. 

 

Also, referring to the math person, their reasoning was that it was intended you get 30 seconds to damage the core. No more, no less, so they used that as the baseline. Even if you were given 2 minutes instead of 30 seconds, those kinds of scores would still be impossible to achieve.

 

Your argument that it was "in the game already so it must be ok" is grasping at straws in the absolute best case scenario. Draw parallels to other games where people abused bugs or "oversights" (like in Runescape, Purple Party hats, the ability to extort billions of gold from a Dungeoneering "oversight", etc), and the exploiters, when confronted, presented the same argument you have. Were they banned? Absolutely.

Edited by ForSeagulls
Naming and shaming.
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Honestly the best way to do this is to use 4 elytrons. You spam the 3rd skill with energy pads nonstop for 30 seconds and THEN pop the shields on the balor. This allows for a crap ton of damage to pile on. As thats happening you back op, still shooting the 3rd skill and pop all the nodes on the core. Best I've been able to do is 17million solo. Best way to fix this would be to simply make the cores not affected by archwing powers. Just your guns or melee.

Edited by LuxLo
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.-KG-..-RaguLab-.

Score of 347 million on scoreboard, check the first page.

 

Yeah, you can shut up about a laggy computer. It's clear it was intentional

 

 

 Yeah sorry there was not enough lag to get 400m+

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Honestly the best way to do this is to use 4 elytrons. You spam the 3rd skill with energy pads nonstop for 30 seconds and THEN pop the shields on the balor. This allows for a crap ton of damage to pile on. As thats happening you back op, still shooting the 3rd skill and pop all the nodes on the core. Best I've been able to do is 17million solo. Best way to fix this would be to simply make the cores not affected by archwing powers. Just your guns or melee.

cool-downs on skills and gear, or gear limitation to 1 per kind per player at the same time would also do the trick

fixing the time dilation on weak host machines, now that's a tough one

 

(Edit: I mean, not even real-life has absolute time, gravity can cause time dilation, too)

Edited by FatalionPanic-EGT-
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-snip

poe_reading.jpg

 

How is his math bad? He just multiplied 54,000x32, and then you jump in, change 32 to 8000, and claim his math is wrong. What the hell? I usually just lurk, but seeing someone say "lol bad math" and then repeating that person's math as justification of their own claim without correcting it is mind bogglingly stupid. I don't give a damn about the event scores, but if you're going to try and discredit someone or their work, at least be sensible about it!

 

Edit: Checked DrMeowmix's math. There's nothing I can find wrong with it.

Edited by Jimmahdean
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How about we just compare scores before the 15.8.1 Exploit Fix and after it, if the difference in both the scores is not outstandingly large then they did not use the exploit, although if they can not reproduce the same results then they might have taken advantage of the said exploit, there's 2 weeks to this event, that's plenty of time to prove themselves clean unless there's more exploits that I'm unaware of. So, Think of this as a redemption if anything.

 

TL;DR: Compare the difference of the new and old scores after the event.

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