Survival - Upgrade (Remove Life Support)

[Jax_Cavalera]

Yep it's another one of these threads.

 

I figured that based on a lot of discussion surrounding survivals, perhaps it's time to bring back the idea of a kill meter to the table.

 

What Should Happen :

 

1. Remove all life support out of survival as it has NOTHING to do with being a warframe.. killing or the general concept of battle or surviving waves of enemies.

 

2.  Add in a Kill Meter

 

3.  When you hit the target on the Kill Meter you get that "Waves' Reward"

 

4.  Enemies become more difficult as "Waves" progress

 

 

Benefits :

 

1.  Survival becomes about how many "waves" you can survive with enemy difficulty always raising upwards.  What survival should have always been about... not scurrying around looking for drops or having to ALWAYS bring Nekros with you.

 

 

2.  By removing the "Timer" out of the game-mode you will not be able to exploit how many enemies you may kill at a lower difficulty level just by spawn-camping them.

 

*a kill = a kill simple, you only get X number of kills per difficulty level before things become harder again making this less vulnerable to exploitation*

 

 

3.  If you have a strong team / solo frame, you can go through those early waves faster than those who have a weaker team/solo frame.  This would reward Veteran players with quicker turn-around and also give newer players something to aim for.. being able to fill their Kill Meter quicker.

 

 

4.  No longer will the gamemode be Nekros and 3 other frames to play, you will be able to choose any frame combinations you want and really explore unique squad formations.  Also due to there not being drops or a timer..

 

you can progress at your own pace. so if you can't handle the enemies very well then you can pick them off almost like an extermination mission but with increasing difficulty levels.

 

 

5.  The game would no longer fail because enemies were a bit slow to spawn or their drop rate of life support were too rare.

 

 

There are of cause many more benefits but those are the main ones that jump out right away.

 

 

Things to be considerate of :

 

1. Speed Farmers - There will likely be a trend to fill the first 4 Kill Meters as fast as possible and then claim out - REPEAT.

 

To help with this, some of the following actions could be taken :

 

   -  More rare rewards have a higher chance to drop as rotations repeat so if you were to do Rotation C for the 3rd time in One game, you would have 3x the chance of getting the more rare drop as the Kill Meter reward.

 

keen to hear other peoples thoughts on this and ways to ensure the speed farm plague wouldn't set in without crippling the fun of the surviving hordes of enemies.

 

 

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UPDATE

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I've created a Poll to ask us this question and get some feedback in concise numbers regarding the idea.

 

To have your say follow the Link Below :

http://goo.gl/SrhT4L

 

To view current results :

http://goo.gl/1PILSf

 

 

An idea that is in consideration is that of Temp Caches which would appear each time you fill the Kill Meter and you have a limited time to reach them before they vanish :

 

Good

 

-  They let players have a reason to move around to gather the rewards each time they max their Kill Meter instead of automatically getting rewards.

 

-  Unlike Life Support, they are not critical to a mission success/failure but in most cases when players run Tower Survival they are after these rewards so it would almost defeat the purpose of Tower Survival to ignore the Temp Caches.

 

 

Bad

 

-  Some players have mentioned that it could be a bad thing to force players to leave their "fortified" camping spot in order to get the rewards.

 

 

 

So what are your thoughts on them.. would they enhance the concept or not?

Edited December 26, 2014 by Jax_Cavalera

[Snyphurr]

Yes today.

Yes tomorrow.

Yes forever.

All of my yes.

[Megakruemel]

DE- i think a KILL METER is the answer we have been looking for all the time. OMG PLEASE!

 

EDIT: following this thread to see where it is headed. Hopefully it will not drown in the feedback section of the forums.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Megakruemel

[Catalyst1945]

YES PLS THIS WOULD MAKE SURVIVAL SO MUCH MORE FUN PLEASE DE

[BadonkaCookie]

So, a defense mission without a pod ?

[armando92]

So, a defense mission without a pod ?

 

this is what i was thinking

[Azawarau]

Eh...

 

A bit dramatic

 

You can go an hour without a nekros without issue if you kill enough and the point of survival is to kill and distract

 

Im not entire against the change but its not really needed

[Waterheart]

Or you need to keep the kill meter high or you lose? and every 5 minutes you gain a reward like it is right now? otherwise it basically is defense

[Megakruemel]

Eh...

 

A bit dramatic

 

You can go an hour without a nekros without issue if you kill enough and the point of survival is to kill and distract

 

Im not entire against the change but its not really needed

An hour without a nekros? vid or did not happen.

 

EDIT: now that i think about it, it should be possible but not solo.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Megakruemel

[Sunfaiz]

Yes today.

Yes tomorrow.

Yes forever.

All of my yes.

[SantaFrost]

id say this could be good as a brand new mode, nickname say onslought we go to base to essentially deal as much damage not to destract but to be the guy dealing the major damage to the enemys.

 

honestly i say the openers ideas is good as a seperate game mode, but to compare this as a change to survival mode as it is now. im honestly going to say keep survival as it is.

[Bitle]

sure sounds good...but then your required frame turns from Nekros to some frame with a highly efficient area nuke such as ember.....rush to kill count fast....extract rinse repeat....and everyone is still stuck wishing they could shoot....something....unless they are the uber frame.

 

its not a bad concept and could be fun, and i do not feel the life support is the best potential survival type, but you are not required to have a nekros....with the updates to life support i have duo'd with a friend in void 3 survival without Nekros and have made it to 40-60 minutes popping very few life supports (2 or 3? maybe 4)....does it take luck yes? but so does alot of the rng we run against.

[Thyriell]

Best idea regarding survival revamp so far! Never did like the oxygen scrying and choking without a Nekros. 

[Bitle]

An hour without a nekros? vid or did not happen.

 

EDIT: now that i think about it, it should be possible but not solo.

I had intended to call you out, but with the edit....not solo....preaty fair consideration it would be harder to accomplish not solo, and some new game type with a kill meter or some such may be a decent way to farm rotation rewards.

[Azawarau]

An hour without a nekros? vid or did not happen.

 

EDIT: now that i think about it, it should be possible but not solo.

Im sure solo is possible but difficult with lower spawns

 

My best is likely only 45 minutes with valkyr before running out of LS

 

Though i havnt tried in a while and they buffed spawns nd LS a bit

 

And at the some time the corpus and infested are much more difficult now....

 

Ill try with grineer and see if its possible

[TickTockMan]

So, a defense mission without a pod ?

Yeah that's exactly what this seems like to me.

 

In a defense mission > a wave spawns, you kill it, then that ushers in the next wave.

 

 

 

In this proposed change > enemies spawn, you kill enough of them, then more enemies spawn. 

 

Play would be extremely similar to defense.

 

Also, how do you fail this mission??? I imagine the reason survival was implemented the way  it was, was to prevent the only loss condition being for every single member of the squad to run out of revives. Would be a huge hindrance to replayablility. "Hosting T4S must have all 4 revives". That's not something I can appreciate. Avoiding cases like that is most likely why DE decided to add life support, when I'm sure their original intention was to have an all out arcade style survival mission.

[rockscl]

I like survival as it is, and i dislike your idea, but it could have its own mission mode

[Grayphilosopher]

Survival is about how long you can survive, not how long you can keep killing things. It also isn't ALWAYS necessary to bring a Necros, it's perfectly possible to do without one. If anything, to prevent the preference of bringing a Necros frame, do away with life support drops and supply more life support pods.

 

It's not a defense, it's not about clearing out their ship or even necessarily killing anything at all. It's about making a distraction while the lone tenno operative raids the ship. 

 

Your idea sounds like a fun gamemode though, definitely. But I wouldn't want the current survival replaced with it, god forbid you actually have to do something to keep the timer going.

[AlienOvermind]

Eh...

 

A bit dramatic

 

You can go an hour without a nekros without issue if you kill enough and the point of survival is to kill and distract

 

Im not entire against the change but its not really needed

But Survival surely need some changes, right now it's the most boring game mode. Though I suppose a significant increase of enemy spawnrate would be enough.

[Xennocide420]

Yes.

[Jax_Cavalera]

Hey guys WOW I wasn't expecting such a response so quickly to this.

 

Few things to mention :

 

1.  I do see this as a closer relative to defense since to me the term survival indicates the ability to defend yourself to stay alive.  The difference being that instead of a stationary objective to defend, YOU become the objective to defend.

 

2.  Point 1 brings us to Point 2, The game is Won when you claim out at the extraction point.. if you can make it there alive.   the game is lost.. when you die.  It really doesn't need to be more complicated than this does it.. we have plenty of intricate game-modes out there and survival is such a basic principle that a kill to live approach seems appropriate.

 

3.  Currently if all party members run out of revives I don't see how that would be any different to all party members running out of revives in the upgraded version.. there is just a lot more logic gaps in why this happens such as.. enemies not spawning in a timely fashion, RNG not providing enough personal support modules, Lotus glitching out on spawns, Stalker putting the room into Lockdown isolating you from Lotus Support etc.. etc..  All things that shouldn't even be a problem with Survival but are due to the way it currently functions.

 

4.  I may not have described this properly, but the way I would see things going is as follows :

 

 - Players Spawn In and start killing

 - Kill Meter is FULL

 - Reward Shows up

 - Players now keep fighting or make their way to extraction.

 - Enemies continue to spawn in and the Kill Meter starts to fill up again as the squad polish off more enemies.

 

I can understand how the term "Wave" makes us think of Defense where it is broken up into Waves of enemies that spawn.

 

This is more in terms of.. enemies already spawned would simply have stats raised to a new difficulty level dynamically increasing difficulty the moment you receive the reward from your previous Kill Meter filling up.  So the new "Wave" is already in progress.. as to how difficulty is boosted would be up to the Dev team.

 

Things such as Armor level / Shield level boosts and the introduction of heavier units being added to the spawn table could potentially work well.

 

 

5.  The idea isn't simple because I think Survival is Too Hard with life support and Enemies but it's because I feel that the whole idea of life support is unrelated to the task of surviving against hordes of enemy units and so really shouldn't be part of the gamemode in the first place as it distracts from the real goal of survival... to kill or be killed.

 

 

Perhaps this would be more suitable as a unique gamemode.. perhaps it should replace the existing one.  I know that personally if it were a new gamemode.. the current survival would likely be less populated simple due to the extra loops players must jump through in order to feel that adrenaline pumping rush of brutal enemies hunting you down relentlessly giving you one of 2 options, escape in fear or stand your ground and fight to survive.

 

I've created a Poll to ask us this question and get some feedback in concise numbers regarding the idea.

 

To have your say follow the Link Below :

http://goo.gl/SrhT4L

 

To view current results :

http://goo.gl/1PILSf

[Azawarau]

But Survival surely need some changes, right now it's the most boring game mode. Though I suppose a significant increase of enemy spawnrate would be enough.

For me personally its the best one next to perhaps excavation or interception (keeping up with those tasks are more troubling than occasionally hitting LS)

 

Lots of action in them

[Rakshal]

I voted to have it as a new gamemode. Also how do I give this more upvotes?

[Xikiri]

I just want a survival game mode where it's an actual fight for survival versus a horde of enemies. While I thought it was interesting at first, it's gotten to the point where it's simply "okay." It doesn't really feel like an actual survival.

Don't get me wrong, I love the current Survival as is. However, I feel a new game mode centered around testing the metal (hah, puns) of your Warframe and equipment would be splendid. 

[Ironman312]

Yes pls.

I want this.