Nullifier's Bubble Isn't Affected By Damage, And Here's Proof

[Monolake]

Hey, read the wiki, and see how they work. And stop complaining about the fact that you seem to be unable to handle them, while everyone else can.

 

Also, don't give a damn about the drop tables, just because you want to farm longer. You are supposed to be fighting for your life,

 

Oh so thats how game supposed to work now, with no abilities and slow ROF weapons being useless?  

So WF is supposed to be crappy generic shooter with no customization and no different playstyles and tactics now?

And EVERYONE is fine happy with that yeah sure  

 

 

[Althran]

Oh so thats how game supposed to work now, with no abilities and slow ROF weapons being useless?  

So WF is supposed to be crappy generic shooter with no customization and no different playstyles and tactics now?

And EVERYONE is fine happy with that yeah sure  

Yeah, apparently so.  The only direction this game is headed to apparently with all these people saying "just use high RoF weapons and deal with it" is just going to be RP w/ soma and boltor.  

 

"Oh you wanted to be a super cool ninja that can use awesome moves and unique guns to totally destroy face?  Yeah too bad because now you have to face this one guy who doesn't care what gun you use, can one shot you from pretty much level 10 up, has aimbot aim, and also makes all your super cool ninja powers completely useless and the only way you can kill him faster than he can kill you is if you use this one weapon.  Oh you like single shot weapons like snipers and bows?  Ahaha, good luck kiddo."

 

Super fun man, great direction this game is headed.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Althran

[letir]

My Soma, Burston P and S Gammacor still works perfectly fine, i can go in T4 almost like before (dat Bombards).

 

"T4 is challenge, hurr-durr. You are not supposed to be here after 40 min, hurr-durr."

 

What a hell are this guys talking about? Anybody knows?

Edited December 26, 2014 by letir

[DoomFruit]

Hey, read the wiki, and see how they work. And stop complaining about the fact that you seem to be unable to handle them, while everyone else can.

 

Also, don't give a damn about the drop tables, just because you want to farm longer. You are supposed to be fighting for your life, not glancing at your watch, leaving when you get bored. Too bad your totally safe farming expeditions have been put on hold.

 

Working as intended.

 

Also: "My response to an ice level is always to quit and restart. There is absolutely no reason for me to do a mission with half shields.", you must be a PUG favorite. "Oh look he quit again". If you can't even handle running half shields, I'm not surprised you can't handle Nullifiers.

 

The point of games is to deal with what they throw at you and thrive. Not constantly find shortcuts. If you simply do that every time, maybe Tetris is what they should be playing.

Are you deliberately not reading the responses here? I know damn well how they work. And I can handle them perfectly well... if I pull out the generic Boltor Prime or Soma and have the same loadout as everyone else. Let me say this for the fifth time: I don't like high ROF weapons. Warframe has always given us a choice in this matter - right back at the beginning, you had the Boltor and the Latron. The Viper and the Lex. The Dread, Paris Prime and Vectis are absolutely high-tier weapons. They are most definitely high skill, high reward things - limited ammo capacity, but if you can aim well, you can do as well as any Soma spam.

 

Not any more. With the nullifier, DE are basically mandating the use of high ROF weapons in the Void. All that effort at balancing machine guns, sniper rifles, DMRs, bows - gone due to one poorly designed enemy type.

 

And have you considered that there's a reason why people try to stay longer in survival missions? You might enjoy repetitive grinding day-in, day-out on exactly the same mission with your endless supply of Void keys, but not everyone has fifty T4 interceptions sitting around waiting to be used. We have finite keys and want to make the most out of them. I do not keep clock watching only to leave when I'm bored.

 

And tell me, where exactly did I say that I'm incapable of handling half shields? I don't see the point in having to put up with it when I can just do the mission again and have full shields. For ABSOLUTELY NO PENALTY. When you take on an extra handicap in games, it's to get an extra payoff - see Nightmare missions and higher level Void missions for their different rewards. There is no justification for me to do a mission with half shields. And I don't give a crap about what PUGs think on this matter. As mentioned in the other thread, I always say why I leave a public mission in chat if I see ice. They'll learn soon enough.

[Dogefighter]

yea, this is just logic. not a complaint something that makes total sense, but here come to comments about how u need skill to kill them. EX. why dont u just slide inside the bubble and kill them.

You are the reason we can't have nice things.  Consider this:  Some frames rely on abilities.  Mesa doesnt melee!  Ember doesnt get up close!  And if you did, they could knock you down and 1 shot you with their (horribly unbalanced BS 1 shot stupid game ruining freaking dumb af annoying across map insta kill f***ing sniper rifles) lankas.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Dogefighter

[plznohurtme]

Are you deliberately not reading the responses here? I know damn well how they work. And I can handle them perfectly well... if I pull out the generic Boltor Prime or Soma and have the same loadout as everyone else. Let me say this for the fifth time: I don't like high ROF weapons. Warframe has always given us a choice in this matter - right back at the beginning, you had the Boltor and the Latron. The Viper and the Lex. The Dread, Paris Prime and Vectis are absolutely high-tier weapons. They are most definitely high skill, high reward things - limited ammo capacity, but if you can aim well, you can do as well as any Soma spam.

Not any more. With the nullifier, DE are basically mandating the use of high ROF weapons in the Void. All that effort at balancing machine guns, sniper rifles, DMRs, bows - gone due to one poorly designed enemy type

That's a lot of words to say that you're incapable of switching to a secondary. It takes me anywhere from 7 to 10 shots from akvasto (not using auto macro) to cut through nullifier shields depending on circumstances, so I don't have to take an automatic primary if I don't want to (opticor can be fun). I'm not sure why anyone would use multiple limited magazine capacity weapons in the same loadout, but maybe that is you in which case keep complaining about how DE punishes you for the foolish way you play.

There is definitely balancing left to be done here, but making a sweeping change to remove the negative from one weapon type (limited mag capacity weapons all suffer against nullifer) would be as stupid as making Eximus shields disappear after 15 shots because I like autos and find the amount of damage I have to do at high levels to waste too much ammo.

Edited December 26, 2014 by plznohurtme

[DoomFruit]

That's a lot of words to say that you're incapable of switching to a secondary. It takes me anywhere from 7 to 10 shots from akvasto (not using auto macro) to cut through nullifier shields depending on circumstances, so I don't have to take an automatic primary if I don't want to (opticor can be fun). I'm not sure why anyone would use multiple limited magazine capacity weapons in the same loadout, but maybe that is you in which case keep complaining about how DE punishes you for the foolish way you play.

There is definitely balancing left to be done here, but making a sweeping change to remove the negative from one weapon type (limited mag capacity weapons all suffer against nullifer) would be as stupid as making Eximus shields disappear after 15 shots because I like autos and find the amount of damage I have to do at high levels to waste too much ammo.

Sure, I'll just pull out my Tysis... oh wait, it also sucks against nullifier shields. Fine, let's look at my other favourite secondary, the Lex Prime... which also sucks here. I hate spray and pray weapons - there is no other way to put this. Single shot, high damage or utility guns are what I use. Too hard to one-shot with Latron Prime or Vectis? Taking too much fire? Not when they're corroded, virused and irradiated. Latron Prime/Tysis did absolutely fine against all enemy types and places prior to the nullifiers. It could stand up with the best Soma and Boltor Prime builds. Likewise, someone could previously go full sniper build (Vectis/Lex Prime) and do well with it. Not now. All because of ONE badly designed enemy.

 

Tell me - what exactly is foolish about preferring to take my time and pick accurate shots? Why should rambo Rhino and his trusty Soma be the only playable style now?

 

The only change nullifiers need if they are to be kept in their current form is that their shield needs to be purely hitpoint based and that it needs that stupid shrinking animation/invincibility frames to be radically shortened.

[Icebreccer]

Honestly, I dont like the idea of any normal attacks being a one hit KO if you have collectively over 1000 combined points of health and shield regardless of armor rating before 30 min. That doesnt present a real challenge since there is really nothing you could have done to avoid being shot except for remaining behind cover. Enemies just have insane reaction time (shooting you in the exact same frame they notice you as you round a corner) combined with pinpoint accuracy even when you are traveling at extreme speeds.

 

Exactly. Like I said design like that is simply broken.

 

Hey, read the wiki, and see how they work. And stop complaining about the fact that you seem to be unable to handle them, while everyone else can.

 

Also, don't give a damn about the drop tables, just because you want to farm longer. You are supposed to be fighting for your life, not glancing at your watch, leaving when you get bored. Too bad your totally safe farming expeditions have been put on hold.

 

Working as intended.

 

Also: "My response to an ice level is always to quit and restart. There is absolutely no reason for me to do a mission with half shields.", you must be a PUG favorite. "Oh look he quit again". If you can't even handle running half shields, I'm not surprised you can't handle Nullifiers.

 

The point of games is to deal with what they throw at you and thrive. Not constantly find shortcuts. If you simply do that every time, maybe Tetris is what they should be playing.

 

Oh, give it a break. You don't know a single thing about the T4S, you are just some dude who runs  with a half-butted Boltor Prime and Rhino Prime. You are not even interested in pushing yourself to the limits. You just run the typical missions, leave at 5th wave of defense and run back to Lotus at 5 minutes in Survival. You spam the same OP weapon and say how you don't even bother maxing the mods on it. Then run missions which require no challenge at all. Here is what you said in another topic:

 

 Solo.

- T4 Survival.

- 20 minutes in.

 

So mobs were what? Level 70? 80? 90?

 

So why should you be able to easily solo units that are 2x to 3x your level?

 

Where does this stop exactly anyway? Are we going to have people complaining in exactly the same way when we get T5 missions?

 

 

 

Endless is not "balanced" for, and you are asking for it to be balanced.

 

You obviously haven't run a single T4S. 20 minutes should be difficulty level of "normal" for maxed gear and staying an hour should be quite a challenge.  There is difference between a challenge and impossible. If it's a challenge you should be able to make it easier with your own skills and knowledge. When skills do not apply then the thing is just simply broken. For your information some people like challenge and they like to stay in missions for more than 5 minutes. DE knows this and they don't just make missions impossible to continue.

 

And making the Nullifier's bubble to "prefer" only one type of weapons destroys the variety in the game and makes the game instantly more bland. This game is all about variety and how you can handle the "end-game" content with pretty much anything if you just mod your gear correctly and push yourself a little bit further.

 

You don't care about maxing your gear, fine. You don't care about the "end-game" content, fine. Still there is no need for you to come into topics and start spreading horse crap about stuff you don't know about.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Judqment8

[Azawarau]

^ 1-shoot mobs is nothing new in T4 and high levels. but  they were no problem when you could use abilities to counter them, you know. Now all your CC abilities are nullified by genius designers. So you have to resort to tank frames or have Trinity or sit in Frost bubble all the time. 

The idea is to create a point where we cant simply use abilities to go forever

 

Endless mode isnt endless

 

We have to hit a wall and run

 

Its taken too literally and out of context and thats hurting the games idea of balance severely on these forums

You are the reason we can't have nice things.  Consider this:  Some frames rely on abilities.  Mesa doesnt melee!  Ember doesnt get up close!  And if you did, they could knock you down and 1 shot you with their (horribly unbalanced BS 1 shot stupid game ruining freaking dumb af annoying across map insta kill f***ing sniper rifles) lankas.

>Ember doesnt get up close

[Marthrym]

Nullifier bubbles shouldn't stop bullets, period. They nullify POWERS for Lotus' sake, not bullets. OP enemy is OP.

[fatpig84]

Again those who are saying "Adapt or git gud".

 

We know your point, we can adapt.

I mean it is not difficult to put the ultra Op Synnoid Gammacor with our Dread.

Neither is it hard to put power crepe Boltor Prime or Soma Prime with our Lex Primes.

 

But the point is, you are forcing people to play a certain play style.

 

Why must we play a game where a FAST ROF weapon is a necessity ?

 

Even in FPS games while fast ROF weapons paired with heavy accurate hitters are the norm setup.

However FPS games still do not discourage players from using 2 slow ROF or 2 short ranged weapons or 2 long ranged weapons or even 2 ammo limited weapons.

 

I have played Crysis with a Gauss Rifle and a Grenade Launcher, weapons with extremely limited magazine sizes and very fixed engagement ranges. It seems crippling but I liked the trigger discipline and careful planning of ammo. In anytime does the game deliberately throw me a scenario where I must use the 7.62mm MG or SCAR to break the enemy's shield?

 

Well no.

 

Let players keep their choice, that is waaay better than whatever arbitrary balance you people are trying to achieve.

Edited December 26, 2014 by fatpig84

[Renegade343]

Again those who are saying "Adapt or git gud".

 

We know your point, we can adapt.

I mean it is not difficult to put the ultra Op Synnoid Gammacor with our Dread.

Neither is it hard to put Boltor Prime or Soma Prime with our Lex Primes.

 

But the point is, you are forcing people to play a certain play style.

 

Why must we play a game where a FAST ROF weapon is a necessity ?

Even in FPS games while fast ROF weapons paired with heavy accurate hitters are the norm setup.

The game still do not discourage players from using 2 slow ROF or 2 short ranged weapons or even 2 ammo limited ammos.

 

I have played Crysis with a Gauss Rifle and a Grenade Launcher, weapons with extremely limited magazine size. 

Because I like the trigger discipline and careful planning. Does the game deliberately throw me a scenario where I must use the 7.62mm MG or SCAR to break the enemy's shield?  Well no.

 

Let players keep their choice, that is waaay better than whatever arbitrary balance you people are trying to achieve.

To be honest though, there are slow firing weapons that would break the shield down (Marelok, Lex, Magnus etc.), 

 

So, after playing around with them, they are not as bad as the community looks at him. Sure, he might need a few tweaks here and there (because that bubble is quite opaque), but nothing drastic, or need of a rework. 

 

And did I mention that his bubble can poke out from underneath the floor, meaning that if you are at a lower level (like the two-level Orokin circular room in the Void), you could shrink his bubble down that way, without having to actually face him for a bit?

[Althran]

To be honest though, there are slow firing weapons that would break the shield down (Marelok, Lex, Magnus etc.), 

 

So, after playing around with them, they are not as bad as the community looks at him. Sure, he might need a few tweaks here and there (because that bubble is quite opaque), but nothing drastic, or need of a rework. 

 

And did I mention that his bubble can poke out from underneath the floor, meaning that if you are at a lower level (like the two-level Orokin circular room in the Void), you could shrink his bubble down that way, without having to actually face him for a bit?

 

As shown in the .gif, if you even looked at it (I'm presuming you didn't) I took down a shield slower with a vaykor marelok potatoed and twice forma'd (that I believe has a slightly faster fire rate than the regular marelok if I'm correct) than I did with a level 0 braton.  So the slow firing weapons don't break it down fast enough.  Also, the bubble shouldn't be able to poke through the floor.  It should honestly be a little bit smaller than it is to avoid that kind of thing from happening.

[Renegade343]

As shown in the .gif, if you even looked at it (I'm presuming you didn't) I took down a shield slower with a vaykor marelok potatoed and twice forma'd (that I believe has a slightly faster fire rate than the regular marelok if I'm correct) than I did with a level 0 braton.  So the slow firing weapons don't break it down fast enough.  Also, the bubble shouldn't be able to poke through the floor.  It should honestly be a little bit smaller than it is to avoid that kind of thing from happening.

What is your mod build for your Marelok?

 

Funnily enough, both my Marelok and my Grinlok have very similar builds (in fact, a "re-skin" build), and my Grinlok takes the shield down in a full magazine, and the Marelok in 4-5 shots. So, it might be how the way you mod (and maybe fire as well) that affects the rate of decrease per shot. 

 

And the Vaykor Marelok has the same fire rate as the normal Marelok (and for the record, my build did not have any Fire rate+ mods). 

[Icebreccer]

And did I mention that his bubble can poke out from underneath the floor, meaning that if you are at a lower level (like the two-level Orokin circular room in the Void), you could shrink his bubble down that way, without having to actually face him for a bit?

 

There is a risk of bubble just coming in the time you get to the enemy. The shield recharge seems ridiculously fast sometimes.

[Renegade343]

There is a risk of bubble just coming in the time you get to the enemy. The shield recharge seems ridiculously fast sometimes.

I just shoot to shrink it down for a moment, then Directional Air Melee, hail of bullets from above, shield disappears, use abilities or kill the Nullifier Crewmen before using abilities. 

 

Then again, it might be just me that does that for Nullifier Crewmen at different levels. 

[Icebreccer]

Their Lanka is still the biggest issue. OHKO hits are just a big no.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Judqment8

[Renegade343]

Their Lanka is still the biggest issue.

Given that their projectile has travel time, I just fly at range while shooting at it, then move just a bit to avoid that flying Lanka shot. 

 

Then again, I probably would not be opposed to have that shot be more contrasting (hopefully not gold, because that would be rather mad and bad), so at least players can see the shot flying towards their Warframes. 

[Icebreccer]

Given that their projectile has travel time, I just fly at range while shooting at it, then move just a bit to avoid that flying Lanka shot. 

 

Then again, I probably would not be opposed to have that shot be more contrasting (hopefully not gold, because that would be rather mad and bad), so at least players can see the shot flying towards their Warframes. 

 

As a client you can pretty much dodge the shots by moving around. As a host it's nearly impossible to do it if you happen to get too close.

 

Have you tried doing a solo run where all the Nullifiers are aiming at you alone (plus all the other enemies on the map)? Almost impossible to ALWAYS be ready to duct for cover or react to your surroundings. I'd say I'm pretty darn good player, but even I can't do anything about a random shot from a random direction that kills me in one shot.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Judqment8

[plznohurtme]

Tell me - what exactly is foolish about preferring to take my time and pick accurate shots? Why should rambo Rhino and his trusty Soma be the only playable style now?

 

The only change nullifiers need if they are to be kept in their current form is that their shield needs to be purely hitpoint based and that it needs that stupid shrinking animation/invincibility frames to be radically shortened.

 

Apparently you didn't actually read my post so I'll try it with a link this time and a clear explanation.  As I said I take them out no problem with http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Akvasto which I only use because of the larger magazine capacity.  Nullifier shields can also be taken out with Lex Prime in less than one mag, but because I've run into more than one at a time I prefer a weapon with enough ammo capacity to actually face the situation at hand

 

And making the Nullifier's bubble to "prefer" only one type of weapons destroys the variety in the game and makes the game instantly more bland. This game is all about variety and how you can handle the "end-game" content with pretty much anything if you just mod your gear correctly and push yourself a little bit further.

 

Again those who are saying "Adapt or git gud".

 

We know your point, we can adapt.

I mean it is not difficult to put the ultra Op Synnoid Gammacor with our Dread.

Neither is it hard to put power crepe Boltor Prime or Soma Prime with our Lex Primes.

 

But the point is, you are forcing people to play a certain play style.

 

Why must we play a game where a FAST ROF weapon is a necessity ?

 

 

As shown in the .gif, if you even looked at it (I'm presuming you didn't) I took down a shield slower with a vaykor marelok potatoed and twice forma'd (that I believe has a slightly faster fire rate than the regular marelok if I'm correct) than I did with a level 0 braton.  So the slow firing weapons don't break it down fast enough.  Also, the bubble shouldn't be able to poke through the floor.  It should honestly be a little bit smaller than it is to avoid that kind of thing from happening.

 

This bit goes for all of you here, because you all want the same exact thing.

 

What's the most efficient and fastest way to kill a heavy? High damage limited magazine capacity weapons.

 

What's the most efficient and fastest way to kill Eximus? High damage limited magazine capacity weapons.

 

What's the most efficient and fastest way to get through Eximus shields? High damage limited magazine capacity weapons.

 

So basically what you're all saying is that now because there is one enemy that you cannot kill fastest and most efficiently with your chosen setups that DE needs to tailor the enemy to you.  This would 100% put high rof weapons at a disadvantage just like with the above listed enemies, which all of you are apparently fine with.  The hypocrisy is absolutely astounding and the way you're all going on sounds like you just simply cannot kill that mean nasty nullifier.  Even the OP shows the slower firing sidearm killing it just fine speed wise, but it was missing 30% of its mag capacity at the start, and thus needed a reload (versus the auto with a full mag, take away 30% of it and that doesn't kill it in one mag either).

 

There are certainly changes to the nullifier that should be made and the most obvious one is the animation delays, but at the same time there's no reason they can't cut the minimum shots required to get rid of it to 4 or perhaps 5 (tempered by damage done of course, because anything else is just favoring high rof even more).  Changing the mechanic to flat damage like you all want just makes sure that high damage limited mag capacity weapons are still truly the best choice for every important situation, which certainly appears to be exactly what you all want.

 

So far most of this thread has just been a bunch of whining and hypocrisy about how they need to take away any disadvantage to using high damage/low mag cap weapons rather than ways they could make it slightly more forgiving ignoring the fact that getting your way does effect other playstyles.

[DoomFruit]

This bit goes for all of you here, because you all want the same exact thing.

 

What's the most efficient and fastest way to kill a heavy? High damage limited magazine capacity weapons.

 

What's the most efficient and fastest way to kill Eximus? High damage limited magazine capacity weapons.

 

What's the most efficient and fastest way to get through Eximus shields? High damage limited magazine capacity weapons.

What's the most efficient and fastest way to deal with the 15 normal mobs to the right of that heavy? High ROF bullet hoses. They're no less a threat than that one heavy. And since there's a lot more of them than heavies, it balances out... at least it used to.

[yles9056]

I realized that the globe is considered "object", which means you cannot land crit shot.

So crit weapons may not be very effective against the globe. You'd better bring a weapon with high base damage.

[letir]

I realized that the globe is considered "object", which means you cannot land crit shot.

So crit weapons may not be very effective against the globe. You'd better bring a weapon with high base damage.

Braton MK-1 without mods.

[yles9056]

Braton MK-1 without mods.

 

Oh sorry, I totally forgot that MK-1 Braton was without mods. Just ignore me. :P

[CY13ERPUNK]

+9999 OP

 

takes somewhere around 6-7 shots with my dread, bearing in mind that its often shooting 2 arrows, shred punchthrough doesnt work or help either

 

so 13ish arrows to drop the CONSTANTLY REGENERATING SHIELD =/

 

why are nullifier's shield SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL than the EXIMI artic bubbles ???? it just doesnt make any sense

 

i get what DE was/is trying to do here, introduce a unit that demands the player use different tactics, but i really dont think they are going about it in the right way, the nullifier's power is more appropriate for a boss or mini-boss type enemy

 

additionally if they want to adjust the way players use their frame abilities, then maybe they should rework the blue balls energy system and introduce cooldowns for some abilities (mostly ULTs)