Nullifier's Bubble Isn't Affected By Damage, And Here's Proof

[TheDoctah]

So what, are you just anti choice?  I should have to sacrifice a weapon slot for some weapon I don't care about like a boltor just to deal with one enemy?  I like having variety.  I like to use different weapons.  People like you make me doubt that this game isn't just going to be rhinos running around with boltors and somas one day.

Why I just ignore his posts, rarely and I mean rarely does his posts contain anything meaningful, he wants a jacked up game. So I just skip over his posts and read the next one. This game can be awesome but it's his type of thinking that will keep this game from getting better.

 

Anyway, I really want to install this game but DE's ability to balance things just keeps me from wanting to install it again. I'm totally with the people that don't want the game to just revolve around pressing the 4 button but there has to be a better way of doing it. The shields are a good idea but the fact that a nuclear bomb could land on this guy and his shield would still be up is bad. They should have made the shield based on damage and not the the amount of rounds you put into it. This also tells me that they don't really play their own game, if they played against this mob with a bow or sniper rifle and this shield wouldn't have been implemented the way it is. It's just bad, bad, bad.

Edited December 27, 2014 by TheDoctah

[DSkred]

Then it's you not getting it now. You take the tools you need to deal with the situation. Not two hammers or two saws, just because you love hammers and saws THAT much.

 

You have an entire arsenal to pick from, but "can't do that because it's not my favorites. Oh look, this map has ice, not my favorite either, so I'll just jump out guys".

 

See a pattern?

 

You want the game to adapt to you, rather then the other way around. Not how it's done.

 

I don't think you understand that the game does actually adapt to the players with the inclusion of Nullifiers. They are in the game to work against the player. They are an answer to high damaging abilities able to go through walls, and crowd control abilities able to bathe the entire room, shutting down any opposition. They are an answer to extremely powerful guns shredding groups of enemies in seconds.

 

However, there is a problem with that last part: they do not equally stop the most powerful guns. For anybody using things such as the Boltor Prime, Soma Prime, Boar Prime, Synoid Gammacor, or Amprex, the shield is effectively a speed bump slowing down their slaughter for a few seconds. For anything else, it is a road block forcing the player to find another means to progress. 

 

When something in a game presents a challenge easily overcome by specific strategies, it creates a gear check. Gear checks do not make any game better. The type of game they create is one where optimal performance has precedence over enjoyment. The game becomes only harder for those who don't want to have all their choices made for them by a spreadsheet.

 

Let's not forget that this was never the case until Nullifiers showed up. There was nothing telling players to use the best weapons in the game, or forcing specific types of weapons to be needed. The game didn't suffer because players chose to use something they liked. In fact, Warframe is better for allowing creativity. Choice makes games more compelling, and compelling games keep their communities for a longer time.

 

We're upset because we want to be able to have that option back. It is not about wanting the game to be easier, it's about making the game fair. If a Synoid Gammacor can strip the shield without letting go of the trigger, then a Hek, Opticor, Latron Prime, or Mara Detron should have that right to do so as well. 

Edited December 27, 2014 by DSkred

[Makya]

Let's not forget that this was never the case until Nullifiers showed up. There was nothing telling players to use the best weapons in the game, or forcing specific types of weapons to be needed. The game didn't suffer because players chose to use something they liked. In fact, Warframe is better for allowing creativity. Choice makes games more compelling, and compelling games keep their communities for a longer time.

Depending on the opponent, most reworked enemies such as Ruk or Lephantis actually sharply tell you what weapons to use, it isn't a new concept really, just this time it favors automatic weapons.

[Althran]

Depending on the opponent, most reworked enemies such as Ruk or Lephantis actually sharply tell you what weapons to use, it isn't a new concept really, just this time it favors automatic weapons.

Nothing should favor any weapon.  Choice is a great thing to have.  Nullifiers are just... anti choice.'

Your choices: risk your life and melee him while hoping to god he doesn't insta-gib you the second you get out of cover

                       use a high RoF weapon

Edited December 28, 2014 by Althran

[Makya]

Nothing should favor any weapon.  Choice is a great thing to have.  Nullifiers are just... anti choice.'

Choice should have a meaning. Tools should excel at points others don't and fall behind at points others don't.

 

Your choices: risk your life and melee him while hoping to god he doesn't insta-gib you the second you get out of cover

                       use a high RoF weapon

You can use your lower RoF weapons to pop the shield reliably, but not as quickly as High RoF weapons. So you still have choice, live with your choices. Though to be fair then, could null the advantage RoF has on things, all bosses with limited time/limited hit weak points should be nullified as they support low RoF weapons with front loaded, non crit focused, damage spike weapons. Allow the Boltor/Soma Primes be better against those enemies.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Makya

[Althran]

Choice should have a meaning. Tools should excel at points others don't and fall behind at points others don't.

 

You can use your lower RoF weapons to pop the shield reliably, but not as quickly as High RoF weapons. So you still have choice, live with your choices. Though to be fair then, could null the advantage RoF has on things, all bosses with limited time/limited hit weak points should be nullified as they support low RoF weapons with front loaded, non crit focused, damage spike weapons. Allow the Boltor/Soma Primes be better against those enemies.

Why would I choose to use low RoF weapons if they can't pop the bubble faster than high RoF weapons?  You saw the gifs, or at least I'm assuming you did.  RoF should definitely NOT be the first facter and the only facter that affects these blasted shields.  Getting rid of that stupid shrinking animation would allow for fair gameplay, because that means that everyone is on a level playing field.  High RoF is no longer king, and I get to use my single shot weapons instead of going with soma/boltor.

[Makya]

Why would I choose to use low RoF weapons if they can't pop the bubble faster than high RoF weapons?  You saw the gifs, or at least I'm assuming you did.  RoF should definitely NOT be the first facter and the only facter that affects these blasted shields.  Getting rid of that stupid shrinking animation would allow for fair gameplay, because that means that everyone is on a level playing field.  High RoF is no longer king, and I get to use my single shot weapons instead of going with soma/boltor.

Because freedom of choosing the non optimal?

 

If you look at the gifs and compare them before.. You can see damage matters now, you couldn't break them before at all with Low ROF weapons, now you can if the shots have notable damage to them. I ask then, do you support removing the damage/hit count cap from bosses with weakpoints that hide them again which hinders using High RoF weapons against them? Would that be another step towards 'fair' gameplay then?

[Bernkastal]

Can we let DE at least have a Christmas break from their work before they launch 2015 updates and fixes? Yes, nullifiers need a lot of looking at. They'll get there. The world isn't on fire, play around it another week before going on a capslocked crusade, or suggest either an alternative or issue a constructive bug fix.

[plznohurtme]

You have to be rather ignorant too, it seems obvious to me you've never played a squishy frame. A single level 20 corpus crewman can wreck fairly easily with the full-auto-while-sliding-to-cover bug. Two corrupted grineer can roast a Loki or an Ash that pops out of invis in a bad spot, and that's even if they come out in a dodge roll with natural talent on (Ash might live because of Smoke Bomb's stun, Loki likely wont as a host). Bombards aren't an issue. Neither are tar or swarm moas. Or Boilers. Or Heavy Gunners. I hunt those to keep my team safe, and they keep the dangerous little S#&$s from tearing me to ribbons in return. One stray bullet is more lethal than a hundred rockets, or tar pools to the wrong frame. Put yourself in their shoes before bashing someone.

In response to the statement of yours that DoomFruit responded to:

What's the most efficient and fastest way to kill a heavy? Headshots with any weapon that isn't a spectra.

What's the most efficient and fastest way to kill Eximus? Headshots with any weapon that isn't a spectra.

What's the most efficient and fastest way to get through Eximus shields? Headshots with any weapon that isn't a spectra.

I've seen Gorgons, Heks, BurstonPs, BratonPs, Phages, Pentas, Ogris', Cestras, Vastos, Lexes, Mareloks, Karaks, BoarPs, HikouP, Despair, AkBoltos and recently Stugs absolutely liquefy level 50-75 heavy gunners. I'm pretty sure this covers most weapon types.

Nice assumption, but no I've played a diverse number of frames and quite simply normal enemies aren't a concern unless you do something really stupid or are in a lag type situation. Another bit here: if you're capable of dodging rockets and tar moas you shouldn't have any problems with getting hit by anything normal.

A single shot going through those things is far better than wasting ammo on them and faster. I normally do t4s with one other person he brings opticor and I generally bring something with a large mag (though we did do 40m with me using vastos) and he tears through all of the heavies faster than I can easily once they get to a decent level.

Also heavy gunners are a joke unless you're in the open and they're firing at you, they simply don't take any effort to kill compared to bombard. Also if we're talking a team then auto v single shot isn't even a thing unless for some reason you play with people that don't take diversity.

For room clearing semi auto weapons are not the most efficient option. Penta is. Or a syndicate weapon's explosion. Or a press4towin power. Or a BoltorP (with this you don't even need punch through, as the bodies carry the damage past). Snipers certainly aren't the best option. The Latron line does ok, with punch through better, but not that much. Soma or Karak's fire rate allows for a quick spray at head height and makes a fairly empty room. If the enemies line up, a shred equipped Opticor does fine (or hey, add firestorm for some good lulz). Of all the good options listed there, only one of those suffers against a nullifier. They are all equal against an eximus health bar if you can balance your damage and fire rate and accuracy.

You talk about high level earlier, but then talk about this which only works against trivial level enemies (anything sub 40 for the most part). They are also not equal against Eximus health bar or shields... Opticor modded properly will tear through it in one shot, and Boltor Prime is infinitely better than Karak. Perhaps you don't care about ammo efficiency at all in which case the only concern is how often you have to reload, but I don't tend to throw away ammo packs when I don't need to.

I said before and I'll say it again in regards to nullifiers the base mechanics need to stay in as they're reasonable, but it needs to be less punitive. Lower the minimum number of shots a bit and raise the damage to get through those. It is fine for nullifiers to be deadly and easier to deal with using high rof, but at the same time not horrific with single shot. Lower the minimum shots to 4 and that should be enough so long as the damage requirement is still high enough to require high rof to spend more than a quick burst.

Another thing I just thought of is the fact that critical weapons are terrible against shields because they count as objects and cannot be crit. This is a pretty big issue for Eximus shields and I'd imagine nullifiers has the same issue, but at least in the case of grakata/soma they have the rof to get around it, bows for example do not. This may very well be compounding the issue.

Edited December 28, 2014 by plznohurtme

[Althran]

Because freedom of choosing the non optimal?

 

If you look at the gifs and compare them before.. You can see damage matters now, you couldn't break them before at all with Low ROF weapons, now you can if the shots have notable damage to them. I ask then, do you support removing the damage/hit count cap from bosses with weakpoints that hide them again which hinders using High RoF weapons against them? Would that be another step towards 'fair' gameplay then?

Are you implying that high RoF weapons like boltor and soma couldn't destroy general ruk in a couple of bursts?  I've done it before.  His weakspot doesn't close up if you hit it once, it's up there for a couple of seconds.  And you are, once again, missing the point.  I shouldn't be able to damage the shields with a weapon that does 20 damage per shot.  It's tower four.  It would take more than 6 mags just to kill one enemy with the unranked braton.  The fact that I'm able to destroy the nullifier's shields faster than I would be able to with an unranked braton than with a vaykor marelok twice forma'd is just plain stupid.

[plznohurtme]

Are you implying that high RoF weapons like boltor and soma couldn't destroy general ruk in a couple of bursts?  I've done it before.  His weakspot doesn't close up if you hit it once, it's up there for a couple of seconds.  And you are, once again, missing the point.  I shouldn't be able to damage the shields with a weapon that does 20 damage per shot.  It's tower four.  It would take more than 6 mags just to kill one enemy with the unranked braton.  The fact that I'm able to destroy the nullifier's shields faster than I would be able to with an unranked braton than with a vaykor marelok twice forma'd is just plain stupid.

Except for the fact that your example showed reloading the marelok which you wouldn't have had to do if you started with a full mag like you did with the braton. I'm not sure why you feel entitled to have them change the game to suit you, but you need to get over yourself. The best solution is typically somewhere in the middle, but you refuse to accept that and keep parroting the same exact thing over and over despite many suggestions being given.

[DoomFruit]

Because freedom of choosing the non optimal?

 

If you look at the gifs and compare them before.. You can see damage matters now, you couldn't break them before at all with Low ROF weapons, now you can if the shots have notable damage to them. I ask then, do you support removing the damage/hit count cap from bosses with weakpoints that hide them again which hinders using High RoF weapons against them? Would that be another step towards 'fair' gameplay then?

Yes, I do support removing the damage and hit count caps from bosses.

[Makya]

Are you implying that high RoF weapons like boltor and soma couldn't destroy general ruk in a couple of bursts?  I've done it before.  His weakspot doesn't close up if you hit it once, it's up there for a couple of seconds.  And you are, once again, missing the point.  I shouldn't be able to damage the shields with a weapon that does 20 damage per shot.  It's tower four.  It would take more than 6 mags just to kill one enemy with the unranked braton.  The fact that I'm able to destroy the nullifier's shields faster than I would be able to with an unranked braton than with a vaykor marelok twice forma'd is just plain stupid.

 

Yes, I do support removing the damage and hit count caps from bosses.

 

Hmm.. I'll start a topic soon about Balancing Nullifiers then, giving them a DR to their shields to negate damage of a shot that deals less than 'X' damage, while increasing the effectiveness of higher damage shots. (Soma/Boltro Prime will still be better from significantly higher DPS than snipers). I'll also make a topic of static weakpoints rather than dynamic to allow full autoweapons with wind up times maximize against a target like a Sniper weapon can.

[Azawarau]

DE Senpai still hasnt noticed this thread?

[fatpig84]

DE Senpai still hasnt noticed this thread?

 

On Holiday.

 

Just wait for it.

In the mean time I just use Synoid Gammacor.

 

Be a mainstream pro guys !

[Althran]

Except for the fact that your example showed reloading the marelok which you wouldn't have had to do if you started with a full mag like you did with the braton. I'm not sure why you feel entitled to have them change the game to suit you, but you need to get over yourself. The best solution is typically somewhere in the middle, but you refuse to accept that and keep parroting the same exact thing over and over despite many suggestions being given.

"Entitled to have the game to suit 'me'."

 

Am I the only person who favors single RoF weapons over bullet hoses?  Really?  How is asking for the nullifier's shield to be hp based so that any weapon can pop that bubble just as fast as the other?  It gives every weapon a level playing field, so that people who like sniper rifles can actually use them.  But of course, you're probably the typical soma/botor user so you're arguing against everyone having a fair game for whatever reason.

 

Also, it doesn't change the fact that I would have had to unload 10 mags into it anyway.  Do you know how much damage that thing does per shot? 

If we aren't factoring crits, which the bubble ignores anyway, it does around 6k damage per shot.  That's 60k damage at the end of my magazine shot.  Versus the braton's 20 damage per shot.  The total damage the braton did won't add up to at least 300 damage total.  Why should less than 300 damage pop the bubble just as fast as 60k damage?

 

It may seem like I'm a broken record but the only reason I keep repeating myself is because you seem to be missing my point every time.  Just in case you missed it again:  No enemy should have to force the player to use a specific weapon.  Every weapon should have a fair chance at killing an enemy.

[plznohurtme]

"Entitled to have the game to suit 'me'."

 

Am I the only person who favors single RoF weapons over bullet hoses?  Really?  How is asking for the nullifier's shield to be hp based so that any weapon can pop that bubble just as fast as the other?  It gives every weapon a level playing field, so that people who like sniper rifles can actually use them.  But of course, you're probably the typical soma/botor user so you're arguing against everyone having a fair game for whatever reason.

 

Also, it doesn't change the fact that I would have had to unload 10 mags into it anyway.  Do you know how much damage that thing does per shot? 

If we aren't factoring crits, which the bubble ignores anyway, it does around 6k damage per shot.  That's 60k damage at the end of my magazine shot.  Versus the braton's 20 damage per shot.  The total damage the braton did won't add up to at least 300 damage total.  Why should less than 300 damage pop the bubble just as fast as 60k damage?

 

It may seem like I'm a broken record but the only reason I keep repeating myself is because you seem to be missing my point every time.  Just in case you missed it again:  No enemy should have to force the player to use a specific weapon.  Every weapon should have a fair chance at killing an enemy.

 

You keep demanding that it be changed to a purely damage bubble which in turn makes it just the same as everything else.  It was clearly designed to be different for a reason, and I'm saying that it's too punishing as it is right now, but the basic mechanic is sound.  It's okay for it to punish one type more than another as there are tons of enemies in the game already like that which benefit single shot/low rof.  It's not okay that it's substantially worse which it is right now.  They can lower the minimum number of shots required to get through the bubble and it can be doable without ruining the whole concept they were going for.  This is where you sound entitled and like a broken record you are unwilling to accept that you should be placed at ANY disadvantage period.

 

This is the whole point there are advantages and disadvantages to certain weapons and that's okay it's just a matter of making sure it's not too punishing.  You clearly do not want this, you want them to just make it so you can plow through it just like everything else...

 

As for classifying people in a certain way this just makes you look like an A******.  I don't use Boltor or Soma and as I've said before I've gone relatively far just using vastos with a friend using opticor.  I'm not arguing against everyone having a fair game, because we don't have it already if we did there would be no difference between low and high rof.  I'm arguing that changing the mechanic to purely HP based would make it the same S#&$ as everything else and that is just a stupid idea when the current mechanic can be changed slightly to make it more fair.  You're arguing that we shouldn't have a fair game by demanding that things be changed to make it easy on you.  If you could pop it in one shot now it'd be way faster for you than anyone else since it takes more than one shot to take them out with autos.  This isn't making it fair it's appeasing what you want which is why I called you entitled and you clearly still are.

[Althran]

You keep demanding that it be changed to a purely damage bubble which in turn makes it just the same as everything else.  It was clearly designed to be different for a reason, and I'm saying that it's too punishing as it is right now, but the basic mechanic is sound.  It's okay for it to punish one type more than another as there are tons of enemies in the game already like that which benefit single shot/low rof.  It's not okay that it's substantially worse which it is right now.  They can lower the minimum number of shots required to get through the bubble and it can be doable without ruining the whole concept they were going for.  This is where you sound entitled and like a broken record you are unwilling to accept that you should be placed at ANY disadvantage period.

 

This is the whole point there are advantages and disadvantages to certain weapons and that's okay it's just a matter of making sure it's not too punishing.  You clearly do not want this, you want them to just make it so you can plow through it just like everything else...

 

As for classifying people in a certain way this just makes you look like an A******.  I don't use Boltor or Soma and as I've said before I've gone relatively far just using vastos with a friend using opticor.  I'm not arguing against everyone having a fair game, because we don't have it already if we did there would be no difference between low and high rof.  I'm arguing that changing the mechanic to purely HP based would make it the same S#&$ as everything else and that is just a stupid idea when the current mechanic can be changed slightly to make it more fair.  You're arguing that we shouldn't have a fair game by demanding that things be changed to make it easy on you.  If you could pop it in one shot now it'd be way faster for you than anyone else since it takes more than one shot to take them out with autos.  This isn't making it fair it's appeasing what you want which is why I called you entitled and you clearly still are.

 

Apologies for the "you must be the typical soma/boltor guy."  I just assume that because of course the nullifier's bubble mechanic favors the high RoF weapons and you seem to be arguing for it.

 

Oh wait; akvasto has a ridiculously high RoF -- no wonder.

 

Do you forget that he assumes other roles as well?  You know:  negating tenno powers, being a tank with his shield, and having a sniper rifle that's more powerful than 3 sniper crewman combined?

 

Let's place a person with a vectis and a lex prime and an orthos prime, just for back up power.  Let's say that they don't like tanky warframes, and they prefer warframes that buff up their gunplay.  So they choose Mesa, because she gets all of those innate passives for guns.

 

Now let's place a nullifier against her.  She can't melee him, because it'll insta gib her the moment she tries to run towards it.  Plus if she goes inside the bubble, her bullet deflector move will be stripped off and then everyone and their mother will just commence fire and destroy her.

 

Her only option left is to destroy that bubble.  Hahaa!  She has a very high damage weapon -- surely she can pop the bubble quickly enough because the vectis does very high damage!  Except... she can't.  Because it doesn't... get affected by damage as much as RoF.

 

How screwed is she?

 

Now place her with a soma and dex furis.  That thing's dead.  Shields down in seconds, and nullifier is toast.

 

Tell me, why should a player be forced to use a weapon they'd really prefer not to?  It's basically asking you to stop enjoying the game that you've come to know and love and suck it up and use weapons you avoided in the first place because that's what you thought made this game unique, is the variety and choices you get to make with the weapons in this game.

 

Call me entitled all you want.  I don't care.  I'm still going to argue for variety of choice.  And I'm not the only person who thinks this way.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Althran

[Althran]

Edited the OP with this example.  Findings:  The shield does not shrink if you give it time in between shots.  Therefore the shield is not really affected by damage.

 

Edited December 28, 2014 by Althran

[DoomFruit]

Interesting. Thank you for the additional testing.

[plznohurtme]

Do you forget that he assumes other roles as well?  You know:  negating tenno powers, being a tank with his shield, and having a sniper rifle that's more powerful than 3 sniper crewman combined?

 

If you one shot the shield guess what those first two are instantly gone, and the last part is far less of a concern because your second shot kills him.

 

Let's place a person with a vectis and a lex prime and an orthos prime, just for back up power.  Let's say that they don't like tanky warframes, and they prefer warframes that buff up their gunplay.  So they choose Mesa, because she gets all of those innate passives for guns.

 

Now let's place a nullifier against her.  She can't melee him, because it'll insta gib her the moment she tries to run towards it.  Plus if she goes inside the bubble, her bullet deflector move will be stripped off and then everyone and their mother will just commence fire and destroy her.

 

Her only option left is to destroy that bubble.  Hahaa!  She has a very high damage weapon -- surely she can pop the bubble quickly enough because the vectis does very high damage!  Except... she can't.  Because it doesn't... get affected by damage as much as RoF.

 

How screwed is she?

 

She presses #4 and wins, bad example, but your point is still valid and that's been my point the whole time.  The current system is too punishing, but it's not the mechanic it's the fact that it requires too many shots minimum and this is a value that can be changed.  The minimum number of shots is exactly what should be changed as I've said multiple times now and you've completely ignored.

 

 

Tell me, why should a player be forced to use a weapon they'd really prefer not to?  It's basically asking you to stop enjoying the game that you've come to know and love and suck it up and use weapons you avoided in the first place because that's what you thought made this game unique, is the variety and choices you get to make with the weapons in this game.

 

Call me entitled all you want.  I don't care.  I'm still going to argue for variety of choice.  And I'm not the only person who thinks this way.

 

You're not forced to and you're acting like you can't kill them which you clearly can.  If you're playing solo you need to keep in mind how the game is right now and make smart gearing choices accordingly... you just have to use a secondary or primary with enough rounds and that's it.  You're not arguing choice you're arguing "my way is the only way" and clearly you can't see this and I have no idea why you cannot.

 

I'll say it again the mechanic is fine, but the minimum number of shots required to get through the shield is not, and this is a number they can and should change.  Everyone who plays needs to adapt to whatever situations the game presents and right now there happen to be a lot of enemies which favor high damage low rof weapons, but not the other way around.  This is simply the first enemy which inherently switches that around, however this shouldn't be to such an extreme that it is punitive which it is now.

Edited December 28, 2014 by plznohurtme

[Althran]

 

If you one shot the shield guess what those first two are instantly gone, and the last part is far less of a concern because your second shot kills him.

 

Sure... just so long as he can't see you.  Because if he can, he's going to lanka you to the face.  When I got the .gif for the hek, I used up all 4 of my revives in the process.  1 was a rather stupid death, running into a laser, but the other 3 were all nullifer lanka shots to the face.  It really isn't "less of a concern."

 

 

She presses #4 and wins, bad example, but your point is still valid and that's been my point the whole time.  The current system is too punishing, but it's not the mechanic it's the fact that it requires too many shots minimum and this is a value that can be changed.  The minimum number of shots is exactly what should be changed as I've said multiple times now and you've completely ignored.

 

Except by the time mesa has gone through the animation of pressing #4 and getting her guns out, she's dead because lanka to the face.  Also, let me make myself clear:  there should not be a 'minimum amount of shots' to break the shield.  It should be a health based shield.  As to why it should be a health based shield: because he already assumes the role of tank, support, and ability nullifier.  One unit should not assume all roles at once.

 

 

You're not forced to and you're acting like you can't kill them which you clearly can.  If you're playing solo you need to keep in mind how the game is right now and make smart gearing choices accordingly... you just have to use a secondary or primary with enough rounds and that's it.  You're not arguing choice you're arguing "my way is the only way" and clearly you can't see this and I have no idea why you cannot.

 

I'll say it again the mechanic is fine, but the minimum number of shots required to get through the shield is not, and this is a number they can and should change.  Everyone who plays needs to adapt to whatever situations the game presents and right now there happen to be a lot of enemies which favor high damage low rof weapons, but not the other way around.  This is simply the first enemy which inherently switches that around, however this shouldn't be to such an extreme that it is punitive which it is now.

 

I am arguing choice.  How in the hell is arguing for the ability to choose between single RoF weapons and High RoF weapons NOT ARGUING FOR F#$%#ING CHOICE?!?!?!  And another thing; I do this for other people, not just me.  I don't know how many times I have to say this, but for my sanity's sake, I'll say it one last time.

 

Nullifier's shields are clearly NOT affected by damage.  They're broken as of now, and if you don't believe me or the .gifs I have provided, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.  Because their shields aren't affected by damage, this makes low RoF guns almost completely useless against them and puts you in a position where you either use a High RoF to deal with the situation quickly or stick to what you love and risk the chance of being insta gibbed by their lanka all the while trying to whittle it down with your puny rate of fire and get absolutely destroyed by the bombards and heavy gunners that are firing at you while you're doing it.

 

Like talking to a friggin brick wall.  Jeeze.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Althran

[Tar_Spit_Fire]

DE, U WOT M8?!

so thats why my hikou prime pops the bubble faster than my dread....

[Makya]

Nullifier's shields are clearly NOT affected by damage.

Just a question.. You say this but.. Have you tested side by side a weapon fully modded and show many shots it takes compared to the same weapon without mods and see how long it takes?

[HolidayPi3]

You're not arguing choice you're arguing "my way is the only way" and clearly you can't see this and I have no idea why you cannot.

 

 

I'm not quite sure how you got this out of him arguing that high RoF weapons and low RoF weapons should be able to take down Nullifiers equally as well. He's arguing the opposite actually-- that his way is the only way that's suboptimal.

 

Because the game doesn't punish any other weapon group nearly as hard as low RoF weapons for just deciding to use them. This is a horde based game. High RoF weapons are already the favored weapon class by their own nature. They don't have nearly as much trouble taking down heavies (what they should be suboptimal at) as low RoF weapons do at taking down Nullifiers.

I don't see what's so wrong about letting Nullifier shields be determined by a weapon's merit in damage.

Edited December 29, 2014 by HolidayPi3