Warframe Gameplay As A Third Person Shooter Would Be Much Better If The Player Was Somewhat Ballanced For The Content He's In.

[Innocent_Flower]

So you get a warframe, and assuming it's not potato'd, you're able to multiply it's hitpoints with redirection and vitality by 4-5 (less if the player is new) within the first ten ranks. After than you can add some armour or regeneration... But you're not increasing your hitpoints by much after that.

 

Moving onto the weapon; You're increasing the damage with damage mods from levels 2-30, potatoed or not. (the exception being explosive and sniper weapons that need reload/firing speed to function)So whilst you're increasing warframe's hitpoints by 4/5 (maybe 9 or so if you're valkyr) You increase your weapon damage by... 

 

Assuming it's not a crit gun (if it is a crit gun, it's much worse) 

+90 element

+90 element

+ 90 Element

+90 element

x2 multishot. 

 

x3.3 rifle

x2.2 pistol (the corrupt mod kinda sucks) 

x3.5 shotgun

Maybe some dual stat elementals or a physical. 

 

So whilst you're only increasing your health by usualy 4/500%... From that crude bit of maths you're increasing your weapon damage by a good 30 times (and again, that's not for crit weapons) 

 

Look at Builds. Frame builds are centred around specific situations; What abilities do you need to use, what abilities can you sacrifice, what kind of mission are you in. Hitpoints is sorted in one or two mods and the rest are open for personal choices. 

 

Best weapon builds? Damage, Damage, Damage, Damage. The variety comes in what order your Elemental damages go. 

 

 

One hit killing everything with fully automatic weapons... it's kinda dull. 

Not doing any damage with your guns... also dull. 

Having to nerf/buff your guns all the time depending on what mission your playing: tedious. 

 

 

Make guns like warframes. Give us a chance to make interesting builds by reducing the importance of damage mods.  Stop giving enemies a doomstack of health. 

 

Give us a feeling of weapon progression by

Make weapon moding more about utility. Less instant kills and more "can't kill the enemy instantly, but can set him on fire" and "can't kill the enemy with one bullet, but my ammo count is pretty bottomless" 

changing the enemies we shoot at, not buffing the same enemy's health.

 

It'd be better, both as a shooter and RPG mechanic, to move away from "moar damage" and towards a "thousands of handy bonuses that give a good edge" 

 

Not saying more damage is a good thing, but when you're increasing it by 30 times... It's a bit too much. 4-5 times like warframes? Maybe (though there are weapons designed to be much better than other weapons, something that doesn't happen with frames, so perhaps increasing damage in weapons should be less than five times, as you can get a top-tier weapon to compensate) 

[jrainbowfist]

Weapon balancing has been a topic many times , especially for weapons with a more interest mechanic. The problem is: why set an enemy on fire and watch him burn, when you can just kill him in one shot?

[DesecratedPoop]

Weapon balancing is a heavily dependent on other aspects of the game which are not fully constructed yet. You have an image of how fast gameplay should be, how long enemies should take to die etc in your mind. But that is only your preference and is in no way the absolute truth of what Warframe must be like. The devs have not even decided what style of game Warframe should be yet (horder shooter, tactical shooter, action rpg/dungeon crawler, flight simulator, pet simulator etc.) and thus it is a futile endeavour to talk about weapon balancing at this time.

 

Edit: How many threads about this topic have you made? Seriously, I'm starting to see things from DSpite's perspective. And trust me, you do not want to walk in those shoes.

Edited December 31, 2014 by DesecratedPoop

[TwelfthAngel]

Yes I would also love for there to be more options with weapons so I'm not always worrying about which weapon does good damage.

 

 

Weapon balancing has been a topic many times , especially for weapons with a more interest mechanic. The problem is: why set an enemy on fire and watch him burn, when you can just kill him in one shot?

This sets up for a great derail onto getting better rewards depending on how you play the game. (But that would be derailing)

[Chroia]

tl;dr - Yup.

The scaling on pretty much everything in this game (aside from the non-damage Archwing mods) is pretty ridiculous for a non-linear game (imho), and that's before exponential math kicks in with multiplicative bonuses.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Chroia

[jrainbowfist]

This sets up for a great derail onto getting better rewards depending on how you play the game. (But that would be derailing)

 

DERAILING: You mean style points?

[DiabolusUrsus]

Weapon balancing is a heavily dependent on other aspects of the game which are not fully constructed yet. You have an image of how fast gameplay should be, how long enemies should take to die etc in your mind. But that is only your preference and is in no way the absolute truth of what Warframe must be like. The devs have not even decided what style of game Warframe should be yet (horder shooter, tactical shooter, action rpg/dungeon crawler, flight simulator, pet simulator etc.) and thus it is a futile endeavour to talk about weapon balancing at this time.

 

Edit: How many threads about this topic have you made? Seriously, I'm starting to see things from DSpite's perspective.

 

If the devs not deciding on what kind of game they want to make is really the main thing holding back the balance effort, they need to hurry up and decide what kind of game they want to make. I should hope that professional developers would know that one of the important things about creating anything, let alone a game, is deciding whether it's supposed to be a spoon or a fork, a hammer or a saw, or a tower defense or an arcade shooter. This same lack of decisiveness is eating away at nearly every aspect of the game: Nightmare Mode and Dark Sectors feel largely unfinished and have been left to rot, Archwing is still trying to orient itself, and the community still has no reliable indication that two hour survivals are not supposed to be the context for balance discussion. 

 

That said, I have to disagree with you entirely on whether or not there is any merit to balance discussion when real balance changes aren't yet on the table. Discussions of balance - what seems out of place, what feels right, what is enjoyable should at the very least help DE gauge which of their ideas are well-received and which aren't. Yes, we all have an individual vision of what the "perfect" iteration of Warframe would be, but those of us who find most other people agreeing with us are more likely to see that vision realized. How else can such a relative consensus be reached, but through discussion? True, we're not likely to see these individual discussions go anywhere conclusive, but this is a public forum where you are not in any way obligated to participate in a specific discussion. If you notice a particular poster is creating threads that you find repetitive or irritating... don't read their threads. You probably won't miss much. 

 

I, for one, would like to see mods provoke a little more thought and critical decision-making on the part of the players. Reducing their overall effects without drastically changing the way the game plays would go a long way towards achieving that. As things are now, our damage output doesn't really do anything but hurt us. It's unnecessary for lower level mobs, and it's more than enough for higher level mobs. By the time it accounts for anything significant, scaling has made it inadequate. We need to introduce a state of being between "too much" and "not enough," regardless of what kind of game Warframe should aim to be.

[grillv20]

If the devs not deciding on what kind of game they want to make is really the main thing holding back the balance effort, they need to hurry up and decide what kind of game they want to make. I should hope that professional developers would know that one of the important things about creating anything, let alone a game, is deciding whether it's supposed to be a spoon or a fork, a hammer or a saw, or a tower defense or an arcade shooter. This same lack of decisiveness is eating away at nearly every aspect of the game: Nightmare Mode and Dark Sectors feel largely unfinished and have been left to rot, Archwing is still trying to orient itself, and the community still has no reliable indication that two hour survivals are not supposed to be the context for balance discussion. 

 

That said, I have to disagree with you entirely on whether or not there is any merit to balance discussion when real balance changes aren't yet on the table. Discussions of balance - what seems out of place, what feels right, what is enjoyable should at the very least help DE gauge which of their ideas are well-received and which aren't. Yes, we all have an individual vision of what the "perfect" iteration of Warframe would be, but those of us who find most other people agreeing with us are more likely to see that vision realized. How else can such a relative consensus be reached, but through discussion? True, we're not likely to see these individual discussions go anywhere conclusive, but this is a public forum where you are not in any way obligated to participate in a specific discussion. If you notice a particular poster is creating threads that you find repetitive or irritating... don't read their threads. You probably won't miss much. 

 

I, for one, would like to see mods provoke a little more thought and critical decision-making on the part of the players. Reducing their overall effects without drastically changing the way the game plays would go a long way towards achieving that. As things are now, our damage output doesn't really do anything but hurt us. It's unnecessary for lower level mobs, and it's more than enough for higher level mobs. By the time it accounts for anything significant, scaling has made it inadequate. We need to introduce a state of being between "too much" and "not enough," regardless of what kind of game Warframe should aim to be.

 

Pretty much nailed it on the head. I really wish that they would lay out a road map of plans for the game so everybody could see where this is going. It sucks having to come on here and question DE's decisions on where the game is heading. For me the game just seems hollow and full of nothing.  I'm not saying that the game is entirely bad, there are plenty of newer people enjoying it but for me, with every big update its sort of just...whatever. This year has been a very whatever feel for warframe for me. There was really nothing that I wanted to sink time into in this game and I voiced my opinion on the matter on the forums many times and offered up constructive advice and criticism, sometimes not very good criticism but still feedback nonetheless. 

 

Maybe this next year will be a better year for the game, who knows. All I know is that a sense of progression and that feeling of reward for playing the game  has really worn off. There is quite literally no reason to play the game for mastery ranks or to get a crappy kubrow or to fly around in somebody's unfinished flight simulator. Farming for gear and newer frames has got to the point where its entirely a chore and it makes me not even want to play the game even more when I see everybody complain about it. The point where this all started getting ridiculous was when they tested the waters with Hydroid. There was a gigantic amount of complaining about it and barely anything was done. 

 

Then there are the countless neglected and forgot about parts of the game that are permanently not getting looked at because they're too involved with making "the next big thing." If its one thing that this game does right, its putting out new content while being called a game thats still in beta development. I highly doubt I will ever get back into the game at the rate its all going but I will probably continue to post here seeing as its still probably one of the most unique games I've poured hundreds of hours into and I still have some sort of interest in it.