Make More Mods Mutually Exclusive.

[Innocent_Flower]

So part of the mod problem is that you can put many of the same type of mod on a weapon, Which is one of the reasons utility mods are so rarely used, and why enemies scale so radically. 

 

One base damage mod. 

Serration OR heavy caliber. 

Hornet strike OR magnum force

Point blank OR Blaze OR Vicious spread

Pressure point OR Spoiled strike. 

 

Now for this to work, The corrupted mods that sacrifice accuracy/speed should give a larger damage buff than the common versions (though Heavy call and magnum force should reduce accuracy a little more. Spoiled strike is good where it is) Blaze shouldn't be fire damage but rather status chance. 

One multishot mod. 

Split chamber OR lethal torrent. 

Hell's chamber OR vicious spread. 

 

What? Vicious spread?!?! Well. Look at it this way: Hell's chamber becomes a mod that adds more pellets in the same area for more elemental chance. Vicious spread becomes a mod that increases spread yet keeps the damage the same in all areas: meaning you're essentially doing the same damage to a bigger area. 

Why split up the love team between lethal torrent and split chamber? Because Lethal torrent invalidates all other fire-rate mods. By spliting them, a user who uses split chamber will be more likely to use a fire-rate mod. 

 

An elemental mod limit. 

This is a complex one with multiple solutions

A: Three mods

B: Two normal mods. One Dual stat. 

C: Two mods. 

D: Two mods, but dual stat mods don't form combination elements. (Cold+shock= Cold+shock, not magnetic) 

 

It all depends on how elemental mods are changed in the future. One could guess/hope/pray that single stat status chance mods will get a buff at some point, so the status chance stat of the dual-stat mods will become less necessary for a good stat build. Maybe those dual stat mods might change? Maybe DE might make all regular status chance mods equal. They're so suspect to change that it's difficult to narrow down one solution. 

 

This means:

Whilst these mods are (for the most part) not nerfed*, Players can't use all slots on more damage, meaning lighter scaling** and more slots for utility mods.

*within this change alone, most mods dont need to be nerfed. Some would even be buffed.  But that's not to say further changes wont be made. 

** By lighter scaling, I mean that as you can't increase your damage as much with a mod limit, enemy health/armour will be changed to suit this, and because of the gap between low and max level is less, players would better be able to enjoy games of a higher/lower level. (think of 1-10 in damage rather than 1-30) The game would become more accessible to both new players and old players. Old players would need to spend less time $&*^ing about in loadouts to nerf themselves appropriately for low level. Newer players would have more games available to them, missions above their range become extremely challenging, but not impossible.  

Edited January 1, 2015 by Innocent_Flower

[immolator1001]

Why? Who would ever choose heavy caliber over serration? Seriously what is the point of this?

Mods don't need nerfs, some weapons might but mods as a whole are fine. Why should we deal less damage? To reduce the gap between me with 1000 hours of play and someone who just started? No.

This also doesn't really help utility mods, since most of those are for warframes. Things like ammo mutations, increased mag, and reload are all used when the gun needs them. This doesn't make intruder anymore useful.

No.

[Prime]

*within this change alone, most mods dont need to be nerfed. 

Heavy call and magnum force should reduce accuracy a little more

Thats right... You will not need to nerf the mods more... ...than this chnage would do 

wtf

[Kestral9999]

immolator's got a point.

[JohnProdman]

All this would do is kill build variety and leave the same problems in the wake.

[Sormaran]

Nope.

[.Czern]

Customization variety is what keeps a lot of people here. While I agree that installing all damage mods to get the highest output and not thinking about utility is bad, it's not because of damage mods, but rather not-so-useful utility mods and bad enemy scaling.

[Tyrian3k]

All this would do is kill build variety and leave the same problems in the wake.

What is this build variety you are talking about? Builds only vary on factions, using the best respective element, but it always runs down to using damage mods over everything, making mods that add reload, clip size, regular status mods completely useless since there's enough damage mods to fill up all 8 slots.

There is no reason to mod any non-crit rifle different from another one. One build for all.

I don't like what the OP suggests too much, but something needs to change about the fact that it's best to just use 8 mods that increase damage.

The first thing that comes to mind is usually the removal of +overall damage and +multishot mods since they don't do anything to customize a weapon, and are already at least two slots wasted without adding anything to diversity.

[Aeriax]

Ten thousand times no, unless you're also willing to completely rework how damage is  calculated, because otherwise nobody's going to be doing enough damage to anything at certain levels.

 

Can you imagine? 45 minutes in any survival, and every enemy you face feels like a bullet sponge on par with old bosses in terms of sheer difficulty to kill.

 

This exacerbates the wrong kind of difficulty.

[Archistopheles]

This suggestion is silly. Let's just release Primed versions of mods instead.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Archistopheles

[Entari0]

While I like the idea of more mutual exclusivity, I don't think doing so on damage (serration, heavy cal, etc, not elemental) is the best way to go about it. In terms of elemental mods, if it were made so we can't put on 2 mods that add electricity damage, for example, I think that would be balanced. 

[Innocent_Flower]

Why? Who would ever choose heavy caliber over serration? Seriously what is the point of this?

Mods don't need nerfs, some weapons might but mods as a whole are fine. Why should we deal less damage? To reduce the gap between me with 1000 hours of play and someone who just started? No.

This also doesn't really help utility mods, since most of those are for warframes. Things like ammo mutations, increased mag, and reload are all used when the gun needs them. This doesn't make intruder anymore useful.

No.

I highlighted something you skipped over to answer the first question. 

I added something to answer your second issue (petty as it might be) 

 

And it does help utility mods. You haven't even described a tiny portion of what utility mods for weapons there are because you're not aware of them. You don't even seem to count so many of them because you're one of the 8-damage mod guys. 

 

Archistopheles seems to get it. (under the assumption that that post is sarcastic) Why don't you?

Edited December 31, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[shut]

I'm all for increasing build variety, but I don't think a bunch of arbitrary restrictions is the best way to bring it about. One of the things that I like about WF's mod system is the amount of freedom that you have with it; introducing restrictions on damage mods would effectively be scrapping our "8 slots for anything that suits your fancy" system and replacing it with a "1 slot for _____, 1 mod for ______, 3 slots for _____, 3 slots for anything else" system. Variety is hardly improved at all, because people are still going to try to use all eight slots to maximize damage-- the only difference being an overall decrease in weapon effectiveness.

 

We don't need restrictions on what mods we use, or limits on the number of damage mods that we can have equipped. Instead, to lessen the variety problem (since a complete, long-term solution for build variety would require a complete overhaul of the game's damage and scaling system, and doesn't seem to be completely necessary), our "utility" mods need to be buffed to be just as useful as a damage mod. Why can't Trick Mag and Fast Hands be just as game-altering as Serration or an Elemental mod?

Edited December 31, 2014 by SortaRandom

[5H4DE]

People wouldnt even consider corrupted mods anymore , why would i use Spoiled Strike over Pressure Point ? it has 20% less bonus dmg and reduces my attack speed by 20% . Corrupted mods are here to augment your normal mods , they arent a replacer . 

[shut]

People wouldnt even consider corrupted mods anymore , why would i use Spoiled Strike over Pressure Point ? it has 20% less bonus dmg and reduces my attack speed by 20% . Corrupted mods are here to augment your normal mods , they arent a replacer . 

 

Obviously Spoiled Strike would be buffed so it's not a direct downgrade. This is brought up pretty early in the thread.

[Tyrian3k]

DE has added too many different mods that do the same thing. Just look at shotguns that have 3 different mods that add +%damage. Half of your mod slots are gone before you start actual customization if you add multishot to that.

 

Similar thing for the +%eledamage +%status mods that only add to the pile of mods that you should never go without, especially for the price they cost to use which may actually save you a forma. If it was at least +%damage and -%status, I'd count it as focusing on one thing at the cost of another, but as it is it's just bad.

 

Let's mod a shotgun: 3x +%damage 1x +%multishot, 2x +%eledamage, 2x +%status and eledamage. All 8 mods already predefined. Only other thing worth considering is punch through.

 

That is the problem that is in dire need of fixing since the same thing applies for rifles and pistols as well.

 

 

 

The first thing that needs to go completely is +%damage and +%multishot since they don't add actual customization. Let weapons gain damage by leveling up to compensate.

 

For the +%status +%eledamage I'd suggest to make them enforce their respective elemental proc whenever a proc happens and remove the damage.

Example: You use the fire status mod and have radiation damage on your gun. A status proc for radiation happens and due to the mod you get a fire proc on top of that at the same time. These four mods will combine elements just like regular elemental mods, so if you have fire and cold equipped, every status proc will automatically cause a  blast proc on top of that.

 

I'd really prefer to keep the player in charge of choosing and rather balance the mods to make all of them viable, but DE has shown no signs of buffing mods that increase reload, mag capacity or ammo capacity in any way. If anything, they'll release a new better version just like they did with the physical damage mods, Ravage (shotgun crit mod that had no viability and was primed), Point Blank (which was also highly requested to be made a mod equal to serration) or status chance mods that were virtually removed from builds thanks to the dual elemental mods.

 

 

I'm all for increasing build variety, but I don't think a bunch of arbitrary restrictions is the best way to bring it about. One of the things that I like about WF's mod system is the amount of freedom that you have with it; introducing restrictions on damage mods would effectively be scrapping our "8 slots for anything that suits your fancy" system and replacing it with a "1 slot for _____, 1 mod for ______, 3 slots for _____, 3 slots for anything else" system. Variety is hardly improved at all, because people are still going to try to use all eight slots to maximize damage-- the only difference being an overall decrease in weapon effectiveness.

 

We don't need restrictions on what mods we use, or limits on the number of damage mods that we can have equipped. Instead, to lessen the variety problem (since a complete, long-term solution for build variety would require a complete overhaul of the game's damage and scaling system, and doesn't seem to be completely necessary), our "utility" mods need to be buffed to be just as useful as a damage mod. Why can't Trick Mag and Fast Hands be just as game-altering as Serration or an Elemental mod?

 

Right now, we sadly only have the illusion of freedom and choice in the mod system thanks to DE letting us stack damage until all mod slots are filled.

Serration is just dead weight in terms of customizing weapons as they virtually change nothing. If you'd remove Serration and changed the health of enemies accordingly, you wouldn't notice a difference in gameplay. Same goes for multishot.

Those two types of mods only bloat numbers.

 

 

One multishot mod. 

Split chamber OR lethal torrent. 

Hellfire OR vicious spread. 

 

The shotgun multishot mod is Hell's Chamber, not Hellfire, which is rifle fire damage.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Tyrian3k

[Taranis49]

I highlighted something you skipped over to answer the first question. 

I added something to answer your second issue (petty as it might be) 

 

And it does help utility mods. You haven't even described a tiny portion of what utility mods for weapons there are because you're not aware of them. You don't even seem to count so many of them because you're one of the 8-damage mod guys. 

 

Archistopheles seems to get it. (under the assumption that that post is sarcastic) Why don't you?

 

That said, I'm not sure your "solution" fixes that. It puts the cart before the horse.

 

The reason nobody bothers with utility mods is because for most weapons, increasing damage does their job better. Best way to reduce the time spent reloading? Increase damage. Best way to improve ammunition economy? Ditto.

 

Remove supplement mods like Heavy Cal, etc. or extraneous elements? People'll just shift to the event I/P/S mods if they have 'em (guys who missed out'll apparently get to suck an egg under your system). Hell, in the case of crit-builds, I'm not even sure it'd change anything, since even at their absolute most bare bones they effectively require half the weapon's slots.

 

The utility mods need a rework first before they can even pretend to be attractive, viable alternatives. As-is, there's simply no positive encouragement to use 'em... which is why people generally don't. Basically trying to force people to use 'em by removing other options defeats the whole purpose of increasing build diversity to begin with, it's a non-starter.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Taranis49

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Why? Who would ever choose heavy caliber over serration? Seriously what is the point of this?

Mods don't need nerfs, some weapons might but mods as a whole are fine. Why should we deal less damage? To reduce the gap between me with 1000 hours of play and someone who just started? No.

This also doesn't really help utility mods, since most of those are for warframes. Things like ammo mutations, increased mag, and reload are all used when the gun needs them. This doesn't make intruder anymore useful.

No.

We need to nerf mods because they can instantly trivialize content.

[LtZefar]

We need to nerf mods because they can instantly trivialize content.

 

But then we end up with godlike enemies that we can't kill. The mods are powerful to enable us last longer in Survival and other Endless game modes.

 

Also nerfing the mods will not give more variation. It'll only force damage mods being used as now we would be in desperate need of them.

 

 

What needs to be done is throw in mods that change the gameplay around in a way that it might favor certain game modes or certain enemies. So we need more mods that are different but very useful.

[MechaTails]

I like the spirit of the suggestion being made, however we run into trouble when we see things like Serration vs Heavy Caliber. Lots of things would need a rework to make them favorable for different reasons.

[Volume]

The solution is more mod slots, not restricting the ones we already have.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

But then we end up with godlike enemies that we can't kill. The mods are powerful to enable us last longer in Survival and other Endless game modes.

 

Also nerfing the mods will not give more variation. It'll only force damage mods being used as now we would be in desperate need of them.

 

 

What needs to be done is throw in mods that change the gameplay around in a way that it might favor certain game modes or certain enemies. So we need more mods that are different but very useful.

I'm in favor of a rework of all of it--mods, enemies, balance and tiering, abilities, and drops. I wouldn't do one without the rest, because they're all interconnected.

Also, as someone who's left Serration at 90%, they don't need to be so high to be effective at all. Actually, due to the way endless content scales, my weapons tend to lose viability within the same wave/round/5 minute interval of everyone else's.

[zoboso]

This suggestion is silly. Let's just release Primed versions of mods instead.

 

yes, starting with serration.

[izzatuw]

yes, starting with serration.

Cause 20+ rank mod isn't op enough lol.

[00zau]

Limiting number of elemental mods and HC OR Serration nerfs non-crit weapons; a weapon like the boltor (and yes, the prime version), as well as the gorgon, buzlock, burston (prime) and a lot of other weapons, would be limited to essentially 5 damage mods; Serration/HS, Split chamber, and 3 elements, while crit weapons would be mostly unaffected; soma/latron W/P; two crit mods, serration/HC, and split chamber take up 4 slots already, meaning you only lose one elemental... and that assumes you aren't running hammer shot or shred or something else in that 8th slot.