Void Keys - Distribution Of Random On Top Of Random Is Breaking Me

[CatPhoenix]

DE needs to come up with some more idea way to do void keys in the future, map the whole thing out, tell the community what it is, and then stick with it.  No, this is not just another post about removing of IV keys from the syndicate, that occurring was simply the catalyst for this post.

 

The randomness of the void, I can tolerate to some degree, because you're gambling on the chance to get the nice, fancy looking content, but all of this gambling to gamble to possibly get the chance to gamble?  I just cant take it!

 

Normal Areas

Survival, at 15 minutes, you get a I-III void key of any type

Defense at round 15, you get a I-III void key of any type

Excavation, every 3-4 successful excavations, you get a I-III void key of any type

High level interception, at round 3, you get a IV void key of three types,

Low/Mid level interception, at round 3, might get a IV void key of the remaining 4 types or you get something completely random....

Archwing interception, at 15 minutes, you get an archwing or weapon part or... get a IV void key... or get something completely random....

 

The fact that you you do low/mid level interceptions and not get a key on the 3rd round, yet you are guaranteed to get it in the third round for high level interception, which does not give out every possible type of key, makes no sense at all.  And now, I absolutely refuse to grind in low/mid level interception missions anymore because of it.  In addition, the fact that Archwing missions can pull the same chair out from under you after play for 20 minutes to see what you are reward with this, I am cracking what is left of my will.

 

And T1 voids possibly giving you any void I-III key as a reward?  So I spent all that time in mission to simply get the instant scratch off ticket of Free Ticket?  It only takes me seconds to scratch off a lotto ticket, when it takes you 5-15 minutes to do some of these void missions, I feel I'm wasting my time now.

 

 

All I can say is, please DE, I understand removing keys from syndicates, but with that, please, please, I humbly ask you, please value the time of your players in some form.  Make it so that there is some guaranteed chance of getting a void (hopefully of a particular type) after doing a mission for a period of time or for some objective.  If you're worried about players not playing some levels, have the rewards move around in some way so that some missions will distribute more keys of one type one day, then it is a different type the next day, or hour or something.

 

Look, I am a loyal player, (founder, rank 18, ashamedly over 1,500 hours), I don't play the game as obsessively anymore, and I refused to go crazy grinding at the whole Viver thing back in the day for syndicate points because I don't play to grind, I play to have fun and enjoy myself.  All I'm asking is please, make a plan, tell the community, and lets move ahead.  Thank you for anyone who took the time to read.

[Airwolfen]

Yeah the key drop is way too random. needed to farm some t3 keys some time ago. best option was to do 3 excavations with a chance out of 10 different keys either from t2 or t3...

[oololz]

[MaverickZero]

And this is where ZMR succeeds and Warframe utterly fails. The gamble in order to gamble is unreal. In ZMR you do a mission (Normal/Advanced = Silver, Expert = Gold, Nightmare = Platinum and Gold) which gives you bullets (basically scratch tickets). Do Action A To Get Item(s) You Spend for RNG Loot. You don't earn the 'key' then have to spend time and effort into 'revealing' your RNG loot.

 

In Warframe, the time spent in the void is a key gameplay feature. However, the unfair hunt for keys is not. Because we have a ton of individual keys and no specific actions to receive them. In ZMR there are 3 'keys' with specific tasks to acquire.

 

My suggestion: Remove I-IV and make keys a tier-universal tool. Meaning you have a Capture Key that you can use for difficulty I,II,III or IV. This reduces keys to only 7. This means that placing those 7 keys as rewards for 7 (or more) specific tasks is manageable. That would be a godsend.

[Guest]

Yup. Which is why I stand with over half the Prime gear not built, because multiple layers of RNG to get that trash is a major pain in the rear. In the meanwhile, I'm off to play a deterministic game like Factorio.

[Ditsydoo]

Im getting so burned out of warframe. So much grind lately I cannot handle it anymore. I really regret buying plat lately. 

[MaverickZero]

I doubt DE would even consider correcting their design. Either they dug this hole intentionally or somehow never knew better. 

Edited January 6, 2015 by MaverickZero

[Noxonion]

Explain please.

[(PSN)SancticuS]

High level interception, at round 3, you get a IV void key of three types,

Low/Mid level interception, at round 3, might get a IV void key of the remaining 4 types or you get something completely random....

 

 

 

After they added stacking rewards Interception now give keys at round 4. So even more fun grind

[Siekier]

Explain please.

Have you tried getting T4 keys from interception?

They only drop on wave 4/8/12 etc.

A lot of time you'll get Natural Talent instead.

[CatPhoenix]

After they added stacking rewards Interception now give keys at round 4. So even more fun grind

Well, that shows how long it's been since I've played Interception.  So round 4 to get key drops.... ugh, and I thought to round 3 was bad... that's even worse.  And here I thought that was just an archwing thing X_X

[Neah]

For farming void keys, they could simply make that the mission that gives the key corresponds to the type of mission being played, i.e. If you play a Survival mission, the key will almost always be Survival, Exterminate missions give Exterminate keys, and so on.

 

Suggested Changes :

 

[Mission types]                   [Key Reward]

Capture                              T1~3 Capture + / Random mod (current reward)

Exterminate                        T1~3 Exterminate

Mobile Defense                  T1~3 Mobile Defense

Defense                              T1~3 Defense -or- Random key (lower distribution %)

Survival                               T1~3 Survival -or- Random key (lower distribution %)

Deception                           T1~3 Orokin Sabotage

Sabotage / Spy                   T1~3 Interception + / Random mod (current reward)

Interception                        T4 Void keys (current reward)

Hijack                                  T1~3 Random Key

Excavation                          T1~3 Random key

AW Interception                  [Exclusive Archwing parts]

 

In addition to this :

 

1. Doing Nightmare missions on these nodes could give T4 void keys of the respective mission types.

2. Planets that start with levels 1~10 will favor T1 keys, 11~20 will favor T2 and 25+ will favor T3 meaning its still entirely possible to get keys of lower / higher tiers in lower / higher level planets (This is mainly because there are planets without a certain mission type e.g. Earth does not have Hijack / Mobile Defense).

 

There are a few benefits to this :

 

1. Less RNG involved, you get the key / part you want, and you know where you will get it, the only thing that differs is the tier (distribution should be equal or slightly in favor of certain tiers in terms of planet level involved).

2. Nodes that are less played, Capture / Sabotage / Spy / Exterminate will be populated once more (Be honest here, once you cleared them, is there any point in going back to them?) 

3. Nightmare mode will have more incentive to be played on top of mod rewards.

4. Playing Endless missions to farm for keys are still viable.

 

[Noxonion]

Have you tried getting T4 keys from interception?

They only drop on wave 4/8/12 etc.

A lot of time you'll get Natural Talent instead.

Oh, yeah. Blasted NT :<

 

Is it the Interception version of Ammo Drum?

[IceDragonofAmber]

-Snip-

 

Please, proceed to take all of my yes and then some

[Alluka]

This thread proves DE that they did their job perfectly. $$$

[Zrgd]

The randomness is bad in this game. It's also crazy frustrating to be playing certain mission types for an item then get rewarded with crap. Looking at you T4D wave C. I have run this so many times for the Loki p part only to be awarded a forma. And the rewards from the first 3 are way better. I don't know anyone who's not swimming in forma. It makes me feel like I have just wasted 20m of my time when I get a forma on rotation C.

[MaverickZero]

There, made a poll topic as requested:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/380522-void-key-acquisition/

[PookieNumnums]

the randomness isnt so bad in this game. you guys make me feel like a big manly creature who is invulnerable to all things.

 

 

seriously.

 

 

they freaking gave us trade. TRADE. Were you guys even playing actively when we COULDNT TRADE? Jesus. We had to buy plat. No other option.

 

Then DE was like 'yo guys, now you can get plat in game so the less fortunate can still make plat AND you get to avoid suffering bad periods of RNG'

 

How and where things drop affects the economy and frequency (thus supply and demand) for the items we want.

 

We all know that slot machines do not pay out all the time, and jackpots are once in a while. The rng factor makes it a slot machine, and lost coins is something you gotta deal with if you wanna play slots.  I ran 11T1 caps last night, 4 T2 Caps, and 2T3 caps, iin a row, in that order. I ended up with like six T1 Keys, Two lex prime recievers, One lex prime barrel, Three Ember Prime Chassis, a PP Grip, a Burston barrel, and i think like two t1 or 2 capture keys.

 

Keys as void rewards is more of an issue than keys being removed from syndicates, but as it stands getting t4 keys from interception seems fine to me.also the keys are tradeable so that goes back to my original point.

 

Trade is DE's way of saying 'here, bypass rng' and for me thats fine. If i need something so bad that im actually willing to farm it, and i dont get it after a bit, ill do what i gotta do to make the plat and pay for it.  Its really that simple.

 

 

PS: Recruiting chat.

 

PSS. I have a feeling the only dudes who really care are dudes who literally do nothing but spam void missions, to make plat via trading rewards directly, or making hella ducats and then selling all of ther 25 primed continuitys maxed up over the next few months and keeping that plat stash healthy...

 

If this somewhat deters the players who never come out of pocket but use trade to horde excessive amounts of other peoples pixelmoney, im cool with that.

Edited January 6, 2015 by T4LCOMX

[Ov3rd0se]

Trading isn't an answer. You still have to either grind for plat indirectly or pay real money, which is the same essentially as buying something from the market. Some people (like myself) want to play and get the items firsthand.

[Alphafox]

the randomness isnt so bad in this game. you guys make me feel like a big manly creature who is invulnerable to all things.

 

 

seriously.

 

 

they freaking gave us trade. TRADE. Were you guys even playing actively when we COULDNT TRADE? Jesus. We had to buy plat. No other option.

 

Then DE was like 'yo guys, now you can get plat in game so the less fortunate can still make plat AND you get to avoid suffering bad periods of RNG'

 

How and where things drop affects the economy and frequency (thus supply and demand) for the items we want.

 

We all know that slot machines do not pay out all the time, and jackpots are once in a while. The rng factor makes it a slot machine, and lost coins is something you gotta deal with if you wanna play slots.  I ran 11T1 caps last night, 4 T2 Caps, and 2T3 caps, iin a row, in that order. I ended up with like six T1 Keys, Two lex prime recievers, One lex prime barrel, Three Ember Prime Chassis, a PP Grip, a Burston barrel, and i think like two t1 or 2 capture keys.

 

Keys as void rewards is more of an issue than keys being removed from syndicates, but as it stands getting t4 keys from interception seems fine to me.also the keys are tradeable so that goes back to my original point.

 

Trade is DE's way of saying 'here, bypass rng' and for me thats fine. If i need something so bad that im actually willing to farm it, and i dont get it after a bit, ill do what i gotta do to make the plat and pay for it.  Its really that simple.

 

 

PS: Recruiting chat.

 

PSS. I have a feeling the only dudes who really care are dudes who literally do nothing but spam void missions, to make plat via trading rewards directly, or making hella ducats and then selling all of ther 25 primed continuitys maxed up over the next few months and keeping that plat stash healthy...

 

If this somewhat deters the players who never come out of pocket but use trade to horde excessive amounts of other peoples pixelmoney, im cool with that.

It's all good if you believe that everything is fine when things are not in reality. 

[khazlol]

Well i takes hours to get a specific key sometimes : /

[Tulzscha]

General Discussion isn't the place for feedback threads, please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/318374-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[Khallisto]

A few devstreams ago, devs showed something like a difficulty selector for missions. And if the key rewarded could be linked to the difficulty selected?

 

For example: I want a T4 survival. Now, "T4 Survival, Defense, and Interception keys can appear on ‘Hard’ Interception missions (starting enemy level 20+)" as indicated in wiki. Using the difficulty selection, we could have chance to get a random key at difficulty 1-2, better chance for a Defense key at difficulty 3, better chance for a Survival key at difficult 4 or Interception key at difficulty 5. This way, I could select the most appropriate option to me, difficult 4 in my example.

 

 

(Sorry if i was not clear enough. Thinking in portuguese and writing in english is not an easy thing.)

Edited January 6, 2015 by Khallisto